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Ho Ho Ho Brexit Passports!


Barryd999

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(lol)

 

I never thought I would post a Daily Mail link but it only feels fitting that I should on this occasion.

 

I bet this hurt like hell for the Daily Mail to write.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5529195/Iconic-British-blue-passports-DUTCH.html

 

Nice picture of Jacob Reek Smug looking a bit pained and the company that bid for it is in his constituency. Oh deary deary me.

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I haven't gone to the Fail link, so can't comment on that, but I note from other more reputable news sites that the passports are to be made in Fareham and Hayward, and that the contract was awarded under EU rules.

So they are still to be made in UK, but those that are in NE will most likely become even more anti EU.

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colin - 2018-03-22 1:17 PM

 

I haven't gone to the Fail link, so can't comment on that, but I note from other more reputable news sites that the passports are to be made in Fareham and Hayward, and that the contract was awarded under EU rules.

So they are still to be made in UK, but those that are in NE will most likely become even more anti EU.

I've looked at other media sites and cannot find anything unequivocally stating that so i'm not sure which sites you've found. Perhaps you could link to them?

 

From the BBC website; Gemalto, which has its headquarters in Paris and has a factory in Fareham, said it was aware of the reports regarding the contract to produce the new UK passport.

 

But it added: "As the process is still ongoing and the terms of engagement are confidential, we cannot make any further comment on it at this stage."

 

And from the same site explaining how upset the company who lost the contract are;

 

De La Rue boss Martin Sutherland told the BBC's Today programme: "Over the last few months we have heard ministers happy to come on the media and talk about the new blue passport and the fact that it is an icon of British identity.

 

"But now this icon of British identity is going to be manufactured in France."

 

He added: "I'd like to ask Theresa May or Amber Rudd to come to my factory and explain to our dedicated workforce why this is a sensible decision to offshore the manufacture of a British icon."

 

De La Rue, which has held the contract to manufacture British passports since 2009, said it it had been "undercut on price" by Gemalto.

 

Eloise Todd, of the anti-Brexit campaign group Best for Britain, said the Brexiters were being inconsistent. “It seems the so-called free market Brexiters are just the political wing of the flat earth society who want free trade when it suits them and when the mask slips they are just petty protectionists,” she said.

 

Suitably summed up there. (lol)(lol)

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Nice headline from the Independent (lol)

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-british-passport-made-in-france-free-trade-just-the-start-a8268536.html

 

Also worth remembering this contract will be a great saving to the UK taxpayer....something else Brexiteers would applaud.......err, don't they? ;-)

 

Seems The Times aren't too happy though despite it expected to save approximately £120 million during the lifetime of the new contract.; https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/humiliation-says-priti-patel-as-blue-brexit-era-passports-to-be-made-by-franco-dutch-firm-3xjx0h5rw

 

The Torygraph is furious; https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/03/21/brexiteers-furious-dutch-company-poised-win-contract-make-iconic/

 

And a Home Office spokeswoman said, "We do not require passports to be manufactured in the UK. A proportion of blank passport books are currently manufactured overseas, and there are no security or operational reasons why this would not continue.”

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/britains-new-blue-passports-wont-12228593

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I believe a few of those moaning about passports are doing so because the French don't allow anyone other than the French for national security reasons to make their passports ... Personally for me they could be made in Lala land as far as I'm concerned and its what a free market is all about isn't it , best price , best deal for Britain
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According to AOL news the contract has not yet been signed but is subject to EU rules that the lowest bid must be accepted and no nationalist bias is allowed. This is our biggest problem with the EU we obey the rules while other countries only pay lip service to them. 8-)
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For all those who believe in Father Christmas, the Tooth Fairy, Equal access that we have to the common market, etc,. may I suggest that you pop along to your local BMW dealer and ask him to sell you a top of the line Series 7 for less than the price of a Mondeo or Insignia, just like the Police do. Ask your favourite motorhome builder if you can have a top of the range Mercedes chassis for your next new van for less than the price of one based on the Ducato chassis. Ask someone why German, French, Italian, Spanish, Dutch etc police forces are not made to buy these fabulous cheap police cars from BMW . instead of buying the presumably more expensive VW, Peugeot, Renault, Fiat, SEAT Skoda and Citroen that the police forces of Europe choose to buy.

 

I am fairly sure that most if not all of our forum members who live in France will confirm that pretty well everything you buy in France is more expensive than in the UK, especially if it is made or grown in France, even the local wine.

 

I don't believe we were ever allowed to be equal partners in Europe, nor would ever have been if we had stayed in.

 

I believe the EU will lose far more than the UK will in the longer term, and I think they know that, so for all the bluster we should hold our nerve and be prepared to walk away if they try to screw us.

 

AGD

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Archiesgrandad - 2018-03-22 9:50 PM

 

For all those who believe in Father Christmas, the Tooth Fairy, Equal access that we have to the common market, etc,. may I suggest that you pop along to your local BMW dealer and ask him to sell you a top of the line Series 7 for less than the price of a Mondeo or Insignia, just like the Police do.

They will if you're buying a fleet of the things.........'like the police do' ;-)

 

I am fairly sure that most if not all of our forum members who live in France will confirm that pretty well everything you buy in France is more expensive than in the UK, especially if it is made or grown in France, even the local wine.

Last year before returning back to UK some friends of mine sent me a text mssg asking if i could pick up some cheap plonk for them from Auchan. The request was "just get the cheapest sparkling white you can find".

 

I got some bottles of this......€1.20 a bottle (£1.04).

Bubbly.thumb.jpg.3db7a571f159d8dcf5a3f03325ead4e6.jpg

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Yeah I Find that statement from AGD A bit odd considering he lives there. I probably spend several months in France most years and Loads of the stuff I buy there is either cheaper or better value than it is here because its better quality. Mind you to be fair its mainly booze and cheese. usually less than half the price that it is here. There is stuff thats cheap here but its sh1te! There will be cheap stuff after Brexit as well but it will make the current "Sh1te" stuff seem like top quality if its imported poisonous junk stuff from the USA. Also now of course you need to know your weights and measures as Shrinkflation is big business since Brexit. Same size packet, less content, food looks the same, less quality ingredient.
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According to BBC 70 jobs will be created in Fareham and Hayward, but I guess this will be to produce the final stage.

I note the present company sources 20% of blanks from across europe, a bit of pot calling kettle black it seems to me.

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Barryd999 - 2018-03-22 10:48 PM

 

Yeah I Find that statement from AGD A bit odd considering he lives there. I probably spend several months in France most years and Loads of the stuff I buy there is either cheaper or better value than it is here because its better quality. Mind you to be fair its mainly booze and cheese. usually less than half the price that it is here. There is stuff thats cheap here but its sh1te! There will be cheap stuff after Brexit as well but it will make the current "Sh1te" stuff seem like top quality if its imported poisonous junk stuff from the USA. Also now of course you need to know your weights and measures as Shrinkflation is big business since Brexit. Same size packet, less content, food looks the same, less quality ingredient.

Better state pension than UK too which is one of the poorest. Pays up to 50% of annual average income with a max of €35k pa. Ex-pat British can apply though there are restrictions and it's quite complex.

 

https://www.expatica.com/fr/finance/french-pension-french-pension-system_830117.html

 

Property is cheaper too hence the reason many Brits flee to retire there.

 

 

 

colin - 2018-03-22 10:51 PM

 

According to BBC 70 jobs will be created in Fareham and Hayward, but I guess this will be to produce the final stage.

Possibly office staff to deal with applications. After all with folk applying for Irish passports they've had quite a lot to deal with. Then sorting passports for all those folk who don't want EU people coming here.....but want a passport so they can go swanning off out of the UK to EU countries! Brexiteers also seemed to be under the illusion that "taking 'our' country back" meant business as well.....but it doesn't quite work like that!

 

Ironically the Daily Heil complained bitterly back in 2010 when De La Rue got the contract to print passports claiming it was costing £100m more than 3M Security in Manchester who had printed them for 40 years. Now 8 years on they're whining because it's not gone to De La Rue! *-)

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Archiesgrandad - 2018-03-22 9:50 PM

For all those who believe in Father Christmas, the Tooth Fairy, ...............................

 

I am fairly sure ...........................

 

I don't believe ..............................

 

I believe the EU will...............................AGD

Strange things, beliefs, aren't they? :-D

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antony1969 - 2018-03-22 5:44 PM

 

I believe a few of those moaning about passports are doing so because the French don't allow anyone other than the French for national security reasons to make their passports ... Personally for me they could be made in Lala land as far as I'm concerned and its what a free market is all about isn't it , best price , best deal for Britain

 

Could be because they are Brexiteers who have been fooled by the suggestion that it is due to EU rules that the contract went outside the UK. May be their eyes have been opened to the fact that some pro-Brexit MPs are wont to blame the EU whenever it suits their cause but in this instance that excuse has been exposed as nonsense. The fact that the French do this and there is no evidence that in doing so they breach EU rules says it all to me.

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Violet1956 - 2018-03-23 1:05 PM

 

antony1969 - 2018-03-22 5:44 PM

 

I believe a few of those moaning about passports are doing so because the French don't allow anyone other than the French for national security reasons to make their passports ... Personally for me they could be made in Lala land as far as I'm concerned and its what a free market is all about isn't it , best price , best deal for Britain

 

Could be because they are Brexiteers who have been fooled by the suggestion that it is due to EU rules that the contract went outside the UK. May be their eyes have been opened to the fact that some pro-Brexit MPs are wont to blame the EU whenever it suits their cause but in this instance that excuse has been exposed as nonsense. The fact that the French do this and there is no evidence that in doing so they breach EU rules says it all to me.

Oh Veronica! You are awful.......................................................but I like you! :-D

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Violet1956 - 2018-03-23 1:05 PM

 

antony1969 - 2018-03-22 5:44 PM

 

I believe a few of those moaning about passports are doing so because the French don't allow anyone other than the French for national security reasons to make their passports ... Personally for me they could be made in Lala land as far as I'm concerned and its what a free market is all about isn't it , best price , best deal for Britain

 

Could be because they are Brexiteers who have been fooled by the suggestion that it is due to EU rules that the contract went outside the UK. May be their eyes have been opened to the fact that some pro-Brexit MPs are wont to blame the EU whenever it suits their cause but in this instance that excuse has been exposed as nonsense. The fact that the French do this and there is no evidence that in doing so they breach EU rules says it all to me.

It's certainly backfired on them hasn't it.....but it won't be the first time or last! ;-)

 

Rees Mugs Little Englanders have gone off to lick their wounds! (lol)

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Violet1956 - 2018-03-23 1:05 PM

 

antony1969 - 2018-03-22 5:44 PM

 

I believe a few of those moaning about passports are doing so because the French don't allow anyone other than the French for national security reasons to make their passports ... Personally for me they could be made in Lala land as far as I'm concerned and its what a free market is all about isn't it , best price , best deal for Britain

 

Could be because they are Brexiteers who have been fooled by the suggestion that it is due to EU rules that the contract went outside the UK. May be their eyes have been opened to the fact that some pro-Brexit MPs are wont to blame the EU whenever it suits their cause but in this instance that excuse has been exposed as nonsense. The fact that the French do this and there is no evidence that in doing so they breach EU rules says it all to me.

 

Not heard that from any Brexiteers regarding supposed EU rules Veronica , link might be good ... Not heard anyone saying what the French do breaches EU rules either , link might be good again ... Im a Brexiteer and I don't care who makes them ... If our great white UK hope was a third more price wise and value for taxpayers (whatever that is) money means contract goes to France then so be it

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antony1969 - 2018-03-23 3:19 PM

 

Violet1956 - 2018-03-23 1:05 PM

 

antony1969 - 2018-03-22 5:44 PM

 

I believe a few of those moaning about passports are doing so because the French don't allow anyone other than the French for national security reasons to make their passports ... Personally for me they could be made in Lala land as far as I'm concerned and its what a free market is all about isn't it , best price , best deal for Britain

 

Could be because they are Brexiteers who have been fooled by the suggestion that it is due to EU rules that the contract went outside the UK. May be their eyes have been opened to the fact that some pro-Brexit MPs are wont to blame the EU whenever it suits their cause but in this instance that excuse has been exposed as nonsense. The fact that the French do this and there is no evidence that in doing so they breach EU rules says it all to me.

 

Not heard that from any Brexiteers regarding supposed EU rules Veronica , link might be good ... Not heard anyone saying what the French do breaches EU rules either , link might be good again ... Im a Brexiteer and I don't care who makes them ... If our great white UK hope was a third more price wise and value for taxpayers (whatever that is) money means contract goes to France then so be it

 

 

I found this on the EU rules Antony.

 

https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/public-tenders/rules-procedures/index_en.htm

 

There's a directive on whether they apply in defence or security type scenarios.

 

Andrew Bridgen, Priti Patel and Rees-Mogg – all pro-Brexit MPs are unhappy according to the DM. Andrew Bridgen claimed that the UK had no choice due to EU rules which I maintain has not been demonstrated to be true. All evidence so far suggests it is not true.

 

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Violet1956 - 2018-03-23 3:44 PM

 

antony1969 - 2018-03-23 3:19 PM

 

Violet1956 - 2018-03-23 1:05 PM

 

antony1969 - 2018-03-22 5:44 PM

 

I believe a few of those moaning about passports are doing so because the French don't allow anyone other than the French for national security reasons to make their passports ... Personally for me they could be made in Lala land as far as I'm concerned and its what a free market is all about isn't it , best price , best deal for Britain

 

Could be because they are Brexiteers who have been fooled by the suggestion that it is due to EU rules that the contract went outside the UK. May be their eyes have been opened to the fact that some pro-Brexit MPs are wont to blame the EU whenever it suits their cause but in this instance that excuse has been exposed as nonsense. The fact that the French do this and there is no evidence that in doing so they breach EU rules says it all to me.

 

Not heard that from any Brexiteers regarding supposed EU rules Veronica , link might be good ... Not heard anyone saying what the French do breaches EU rules either , link might be good again ... Im a Brexiteer and I don't care who makes them ... If our great white UK hope was a third more price wise and value for taxpayers (whatever that is) money means contract goes to France then so be it

 

 

I found this on the EU rules Antony.

 

https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/public-tenders/rules-procedures/index_en.htm

 

There's a directive on whether they apply in defence or security type scenarios.

 

Andrew Bridgen, Priti Patel and Rees-Mogg – all pro-Brexit MPs are unhappy according to the DM. Andrew Bridgen claimed that the UK had no choice due to EU rules which I maintain has not been demonstrated to be true. All evidence so far suggests it is not true.

 

Thanks for the EU rules link ... It was more linking to someone who'd put the blame on the rules for UK losing the contract ... Those MPs may be unhappy but your saying only one has blamed the rules for our failure to secure the passports contract according to shock , horror The Daily Mail ... It can't be true Veronica can it ???

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antony1969 - 2018-03-23 4:05 PM

 

Violet1956 - 2018-03-23 3:44 PM

 

antony1969 - 2018-03-23 3:19 PM

 

Violet1956 - 2018-03-23 1:05 PM

 

antony1969 - 2018-03-22 5:44 PM

 

I believe a few of those moaning about passports are doing so because the French don't allow anyone other than the French for national security reasons to make their passports ... Personally for me they could be made in Lala land as far as I'm concerned and its what a free market is all about isn't it , best price , best deal for Britain

 

Could be because they are Brexiteers who have been fooled by the suggestion that it is due to EU rules that the contract went outside the UK. May be their eyes have been opened to the fact that some pro-Brexit MPs are wont to blame the EU whenever it suits their cause but in this instance that excuse has been exposed as nonsense. The fact that the French do this and there is no evidence that in doing so they breach EU rules says it all to me.

 

Not heard that from any Brexiteers regarding supposed EU rules Veronica , link might be good ... Not heard anyone saying what the French do breaches EU rules either , link might be good again ... Im a Brexiteer and I don't care who makes them ... If our great white UK hope was a third more price wise and value for taxpayers (whatever that is) money means contract goes to France then so be it

 

 

I found this on the EU rules Antony.

 

https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/public-tenders/rules-procedures/index_en.htm

 

There's a directive on whether they apply in defence or security type scenarios.

 

Andrew Bridgen, Priti Patel and Rees-Mogg – all pro-Brexit MPs are unhappy according to the DM. Andrew Bridgen claimed that the UK had no choice due to EU rules which I maintain has not been demonstrated to be true. All evidence so far suggests it is not true.

 

Thanks for the EU rules link ... It was more linking to someone who'd put the blame on the rules for UK losing the contract ... Those MPs may be unhappy but your saying only one has blamed the rules for our failure to secure the passports contract according to shock , horror The Daily Mail ... It can't be true Veronica can it ???

 

Only one that I know of from a Daily Mail report. One quote from one uniformed MP to the entire Daily Mail readership has been enough in the past to persuade a large chunk of that readership that EU rules and not domestic policy were to blame for their woes. ;-)

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I think the first decision that has to be made when putting a government contract out for tender is whether there are grounds to withhold it from the OJEC. National security would be one such ground. If the French claim that the printing of their passports is a matter of national security, and no-one has challenged them, that is fair and reasonable. If they were challenged, I'd guess it would go to the (dastardly :-)) ECJ for determination. So, on the face of it, there was nothing to stop the UK government taking the same stance as France, and declaring that the printing of UK passports was sensitive to national security.

 

We didn't, so I'd assume expressions of interest were invited via the OJEC. It is probable that De La Rue, as the existing contractor, responded to, or were guided to, the OJEC advertisement. They should therefore have known from the outset that they were in competition with other firms, including non UK firms, for the work.

 

Whinging Martin Sutherland's claim that Do La Rue were "undercut" by the French is preposterous. Undercutting implies that another tenderer was leaked your price, and was encouraged to price lower to win the work: that some kind of cartel was being operated. He is merely playing the "race card" by implying that "the French" won unfairly (instead of accepting responsibility for his firm not having put in the best tender), and complaining that consequently he'll now have to face his printers in Gateshead to explain the consequences for them. Well, if he'd lost to a UK based competitor, he'd have had the same problem, wouldn't he? I think Sutherland needs to learn when to belt up!

 

Submit bids in open tenders, and you have to accept that only one firm wins, and that means you lose more than you win. On average, any individual tenderer has about a 1 in 6 chance of winning. If he wanted to win the job that badly, he needed to cut his price to the bone. If he thinks he did that, he needs to look at the efficiency of his Gateshead operation. OTOH, if he is really convinced the French firm indulged in predatory pricing to keep others out, he has recourse under Article 102 of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union. Be interesting to see whether he pursues that.

 

As to those who are up in arms about this, they are giving a good impression of being protectionists. Where they are Brexiters, that seems to run counter to their bullish free trade credentials so far as their claims for the post Brexit boost they claim the UK will enjoy. Britannia waves the rules? Not very good advertising is it?

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Guest pelmetman
Brian Kirby - 2018-03-23 2:01 PM

 

Violet1956 - 2018-03-23 1:05 PM

 

antony1969 - 2018-03-22 5:44 PM

 

I believe a few of those moaning about passports are doing so because the French don't allow anyone other than the French for national security reasons to make their passports ... Personally for me they could be made in Lala land as far as I'm concerned and its what a free market is all about isn't it , best price , best deal for Britain

 

Could be because they are Brexiteers who have been fooled by the suggestion that it is due to EU rules that the contract went outside the UK. May be their eyes have been opened to the fact that some pro-Brexit MPs are wont to blame the EU whenever it suits their cause but in this instance that excuse has been exposed as nonsense. The fact that the French do this and there is no evidence that in doing so they breach EU rules says it all to me.

Oh Veronica! You are awful.......................................................but I like you! :-D

 

Not that Remoaners would be so bias...............Ducky! ;-) .........

 

 

 

 

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Violet1956 - 2018-03-23 4:59 PM

 

antony1969 - 2018-03-23 4:05 PM

 

Violet1956 - 2018-03-23 3:44 PM

 

antony1969 - 2018-03-23 3:19 PM

 

Violet1956 - 2018-03-23 1:05 PM

 

antony1969 - 2018-03-22 5:44 PM

 

I believe a few of those moaning about passports are doing so because the French don't allow anyone other than the French for national security reasons to make their passports ... Personally for me they could be made in Lala land as far as I'm concerned and its what a free market is all about isn't it , best price , best deal for Britain

 

Could be because they are Brexiteers who have been fooled by the suggestion that it is due to EU rules that the contract went outside the UK. May be their eyes have been opened to the fact that some pro-Brexit MPs are wont to blame the EU whenever it suits their cause but in this instance that excuse has been exposed as nonsense. The fact that the French do this and there is no evidence that in doing so they breach EU rules says it all to me.

 

Not heard that from any Brexiteers regarding supposed EU rules Veronica , link might be good ... Not heard anyone saying what the French do breaches EU rules either , link might be good again ... Im a Brexiteer and I don't care who makes them ... If our great white UK hope was a third more price wise and value for taxpayers (whatever that is) money means contract goes to France then so be it

 

 

I found this on the EU rules Antony.

 

https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/public-tenders/rules-procedures/index_en.htm

 

There's a directive on whether they apply in defence or security type scenarios.

 

Andrew Bridgen, Priti Patel and Rees-Mogg – all pro-Brexit MPs are unhappy according to the DM. Andrew Bridgen claimed that the UK had no choice due to EU rules which I maintain has not been demonstrated to be true. All evidence so far suggests it is not true.

 

Thanks for the EU rules link ... It was more linking to someone who'd put the blame on the rules for UK losing the contract ... Those MPs may be unhappy but your saying only one has blamed the rules for our failure to secure the passports contract according to shock , horror The Daily Mail ... It can't be true Veronica can it ???

 

Only one that I know of from a Daily Mail report. One quote from one uniformed MP to the entire Daily Mail readership has been enough in the past to persuade a large chunk of that readership that EU rules and not domestic policy were to blame for their woes. ;-)

 

Well I can only assume Veronica with your selective use of The Daily Mail that in the future you won't be attempting to cheapen it in any way ... I have a feeling you may even subscribe to its online service ... Welcome

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