Television reception

[Guest starspirit]

We have a Panasonic 10" multi standard TV and are considering a flat screen TV with both digital and analouge tuners - or a 12v digibox maybe.

Using just the ubiquitous 'flying saucer' aerial does anyone know whether the new flat screen units have better tuners and electronics to help get a better picture in the UK than the older crt sets.

If not I ain't buying one until I have to!

I personally am far from convinced that digital tv is such a good idea anyway as we just want to watch the bl##dy thing on a decent picture and not 'interact' with it!

And as for teletext - it wasn't broke so why the blue blazes did 'they' need to 'fix' it?

To me the whole debacle ranks with other recent major cons like wide screen and catalytic converters as mis guided technology foisted upon us by vested inerests.

[colin]

The sensitivity of tuner is more to do with make/model than wherter crt/lcd, generaly lcd screens are not as good as crt with smearing etc, but saying that my next tv in van will be an lcd just for convience of size.

[Guest starspirit]

Thanks Colin - yeah my next tv will be flat screen too - it is just a case of when - and whether the 'benefits' (ie a decent picture in poor reception areas - mostly anywhere we seem to go) really do outweigh the convenience.

[Terrytraveller]

Hi Richard,

 

Your CRT Panasonic G10? will display a better picture than most LCD TV's, the tuners are around the same sensitivity too. If you go for a LCD TV look carefully at the contrast ratio, ours is around 400:1 and when you get a darkish picture and a actor with dark features, you mainly see just a white pair of nashers in the middle of the display and very little else!

 

Ideally you need a contrast ratio of 500:1 minimum, also if the TV is not supplied with a 12 volt lead with a cigar plug on the end, but with just a 240/250 volt adaptor with maybe a 3.5m plug on its end, then for sure you will need a 12 volt stabiliser, otherwise the longevity of the LCD TV will be seriously compromised.

 

I have found when you have a barely watchable analog picture, if you have a DV3 tuner incorporated, and you can switch between both systems, you can at times get a perfectly watchable picture with Digital on a lower signal strength than is required for good analog viewing.

 

There is no compromise with digital (DV3), you either get a good picture or no display and/or pixelation.

 

Incidently if you have the G10, I found it switched itself off when the voltage went below 11volts (as might happen when the water pump is used), the Amporer stabiliser stops this from happening and is of course necessary to use with most (but not all) LCD TV's.

 

I must agree the LCD TV takes up far less room in the MH than its CRT counterparts and is the only reason we have one, I still prefer the CRT G10 though.

 

Regards Terry

[breakaleg]

Hi richard, we have not long bought a 15 inch panasonic tv, the picture quality is hit and miss.

we recently had a tv ariel fitted to the roof of the van, (not omni directional) and things have improved immensley, we power the tv with a 150 watt invertor, and all seems to be fine.

pete

[Guest Frank Wilkinson]

I have the Panasonic as well and I think that it's a superb little TV. I went through this same process myself and I've decided to keep it despite its extra weight because I know that I will not get a better image from an LCD TV.

We slip it into a padded case that's actually an insulated bag for carrying food, and bung it in the bottom of the wardrobe when travelling.

I'm sure you know that ou can get a 12v Freeview digital receiver for about £69 and I'm sure you'll get lots of people telling you where to get one for even less.

I too can never be bothered to  'interact' but I do love the clarity of the digital reception and I also really like the information screens that come up when you're scrolling through the different channels. When you scroll through analogue channels you've no idea what the programme is that appears, but with digital you get the title of the prog and you can of course press the information button and learn a lot more about it.

If you stick with your Panasonic and buy a Freeview box you'll save a lot of money and there's a pretty good chance that if you eventually switch to an LCD TV in three or four years it will be  a lot cheaper (and better) than they are now and that you could save more than the amount of money that you spent on the Freeview box.

[Guest starspirit]

Very many thanks Frank and Terry for your help.

Current thinking tends to make me want to stick with the Panasonic G10 for the time being which, as you say is a cracking little set.

Maybe I'll splash out on a 12v digibox just to add some more frustration to the entertainment process.

Perhaps a directional aerial too - but it begs the question, how do you auto tune a TV to a signal on a directional aerial when you don't know what direction to point the aerial in the first place?

Will a satelite signal strength meter work on an ordinary aerial?

[Philman]

Hi SS, a sat meter will not work on an ordinary TV aerial.

On a campsite if you look at some of the other vans and note which direction their aerials are pointing then if you point yours in the same general direction you should get a good enough signal for the autotune to work.

Once you've got all the channels then slight movements of the aerial for the best picture may be necessary. It is also useful to note the polarity of the other aerials and turn yours the same way. It becomes difficult when you can see a mixture but once you've got your tv tuned in you can play with it for the best signal.

Phil.

[Norma]

Transmission standards are changing as our government tries to sell every little bit of the broadcast spectrum. Analogue signals in some areas are being radiated at a reduced power so that the new digital signals can be shoehorned into an already packed spectrum without interference.

 

Adjacent frequencies do impact on one another, and the analogue signal is the one that is compromised at the transmitter if this happens ... it also makes you think your telly’s on the Fritz and that you should go and buy a new digital one!

 

The point is that you do need a broad band high gain aerial these days to guarantee a good signal … and frankly if I were travelling around the UK a lot I'd stick a 14 element extra gain wide band aerial on a bit of pipe (between 13 and 30 quid from Maplin or similar) to make sure I’d always get something.

 

Remember too that we tend to go and camp in hilly rural areas where signal strength has always been a problem anyway – so go prepared!

That ubiquitous 'flying saucer' isn't up to it!

 

Oh and finally … Why, oh why, oh why, oh why is there no definitive piece on satellite technology on this site – written by someone who is a qualified broacast engineer explaining the angles involved, I’ve read some very dubious stuff on here I'm sad to say.

A piece explaining how geo-stationary satellites are approximately 22,300 miles above the equator and simple truths like “if you can’t see clear sky you get no signal”.

Why for example do you get one signal in one place and not in another whilst still getting some everywhere.

Firstly, there are a number of different satellites at 28E (6 I think) and each channel is broadcast at different signal strength - just for starters.

 

Really, it is quite simple: without spending more than a couple of hundred quid, you can get a satellite signal without spending four figures and sticking Goonhilly on top of your van.

 

 

 

PS: Goonhilly – the oldest satellite station opened by the Post Office for Telstar in 1962 with a 32 metre dish – now that’ll get ‘er in there Eastenders in Timbuckbloodytoo!

 

Any help?

 

 

[colin]

starspirit - 2007-01-18 12:57 PM

 

Very many thanks Frank and Terry for your help.

Current thinking tends to make me want to stick with the Panasonic G10 for the time being which, as you say is a cracking little set.

Maybe I'll splash out on a 12v digibox just to add some more frustration to the entertainment process.

Perhaps a directional aerial too - but it begs the question, how do you auto tune a TV to a signal on a directional aerial when you don't know what direction to point the aerial in the first place?

Will a satelite signal strength meter work on an ordinary aerial?

 

If you are in the wild this could be a problem as box has to retune for different transmitters and if arial is not alighned it won't, cheapest meter I've come across is £139! we may need a compass and list of transmitters and repeaters if you can't see another arial.

[Guest JudgeMental]

I like low-tech solutions and will stay with our 10 inch 12v/240v roadstar TV for now. I have always used a small battery powered aerial and just put it through the Heki with varying degrees of success.

 

As new van on order has a bike rack my cunning plan is to get an extendable pole and aerial, and tie rap it to the bike rack.

 

Any one any ideas as to where I can get a suitable pole and best aerial to purchase?

 

forgot to mention that we have been given a small scart type freeview box - so would like an aerial that has freeview capability

 

[Miami]

If it is a new van you are getting have a Status 530 aerial fitted instead of messing about with poles. We always get a signal wherever we are unless it is the middle of the Welsh hills. Then we use our sat dish bought from Lidl for £70. There is nothing much on TV to be fiddling about trying to get a picture!

We have got 2 LCD TV's and with digital signal it is a much better picture than the tube job. Only thing I miss is Teletext.

[Guest starspirit]

But you do need a very good signal to be able to read teletext, which brings us almost full circle!

[Guest JudgeMental]

Goggled the status aerial for reviews and on campsite plus forum found a few threads and opinion seems to be not very good.

 

The Vision plus Image 530/18-2 VHF/UHF/FM Directional aerial is recommended and as I think it looks a neat solution I will probably try it.

[Guest Frank Wilkinson]

Just to throw a spanner in the works, Maplin's is offering a mains or 12v 9.2" LCD TV with Freeview and built-in DVD player. Nothing new here you may think!

However, this has has rechargeable polymer lithium batteries and will run for up to two and a half hours.

Ideal for the wild campers who don't want to run down their battery.

Here's the best bit - Maplin's has just reduced it from £250 to £150. I'm definitely going to have a look. It will obviously all depend on the image quality but if it's OK this is a real bargain.

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=99129&TabID=1&source=1&doy=20m1

Ps I've just phoned my local store, which says that they've sold out (sold 13 last week) and that stocks are running low and it's existing stock only so if you want to take a chance, get in quickly. The salesman said that they'd had it running on display with a DVD playing and the image quality is excellent, but of course he would wouldn't he, although to be fair he seemed a very knowledgeable and sensible young man.

Pps - it gets better. I've decided to take at chance at this price and ordered one on line. If you sign up to its website Maplin's gives you a further discount, in this case £7. There is no delivery charge either so I've paid a total of £142.99. This has to be a seriously good buy!

Good bye!

[Mel E]

Hi All!

 

WE'RE GOING DIGITAL

First, terrestrial TV is going digital whether we like it or not - both here and across Europe. And the switch over starts here NEXT YEAR. The reason, as has been pointed out, is to release frequencies for re-sale. It's a little complex, but but all transmissions use a certain amount of what is called 'bandwidth'. In the bandwidth used by one analogue channel, you can accommodate up to 8 or 10 digital channels.

 

HOW DIGITAL WORKS

However, not all digital channels use the same amount of bandwidth: some are more compressed than others and thus you get poorer reception, pictures and, on LCD TVs, pixellation. For example ITV3 and 4 use a narrower bandwidth and the picture is noticeably degraded.

 

The compression technique is basically very simple: the TV shows 25 pictures a second (half our mains frequency of 50 CPS) and the transmitter sends a complete picture every so often. Then, for the next several frames it simply transmits the difference from the base picture. These differences can be more or less detailed, depending on the bandwidth used. But, inevitably, with brightly lit, rapidly moving action scenes, the frames are over simplified to fit into the bandwidth and you get pixelation. The worst pixelation I have ever seen occurs when the camera scans across a brightly lit but cloudy sky.

 

HOW TO GO DIGITAL

To get digital TV, you can go several ways:

 

- add a digital tuner (from about £25 nowadays) to an existing TV. This will continue to work past switchover, as long as the TV works.

 

- get an LCD TV with a very good contrast ratio either with an external or, increasingly, an internal digital receiver. MAKE SURE YOU BUY a 16:9 widescreen TV however, because virtually all digital transmissions are already in widescreen, and you just waste the black bars top and bottom of a 4:3 screen and, of course, finish up with a much smaller picture.

 

- get a USB digital tuner for your laptop. These cost about £30 from Maplins and work across Europe. I have a 15 inch widescreen laptop with built-in DVD/CD player and this is our compact TV when we want one. One problem with laptops is that most do not have the higher contrast ratio of an LCD TV, so are not as good in daylight. But we only use our TV significantly after dark, so it's not really a problem. Recent laptops tend to be better, but, as ever, try before you buy.

 

WHY THE AERIAL MATTERS

As has been pointed out, you need a good aerial with digital. Because, with digital, your TV is receiving a stream of 0s and 1s, corruption of these by poor reception leads to complete break-up of the picture. With analogue, you are receiving a continuous waveband and poor reception simply leads to 'snow' on the screen.

 

Before buying your LCD sceen, you need to be sure that it has a good tuner, if digital is built in. Some well known makes do not. Recent Toshiba CRTs and Philips LCDs have, in my opinion, very poor such tuners. If you have a great aerial, a poor tuner will take you back downhill rapidly.

 

WHAT ABOUT HIGH DEFINITION TV?

Once we have switched everything to digital, a large slug of formerly analogue bandwidth will become available for the government to sell. Maybe they'll sell it back to the TV companies because - and here's the rub - an HD digital channel uses as much bandwidth as the old analogue channels. So, as far as I can see, it's very unlikely that terrestrial TV will ever switch wholly over to any of the various HD (High Definition) standards because there simply isn't enough bandwidth available.

 

Hope that pulls it all together usefully.

 

Mel E

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