Guest pelmetman Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 Barryd999 - 2018-04-07 8:28 AM I saw a TV program the other day that suggested that it was Putin who was the actual puppet of the Russian Gangsters who are really running the country. Dunno if there is any truth in it but he wasn't even elected President originally, just a stand in. Someone that came from nowhere. So the profile fits. Whatever, its looking like it did in the 80s again but feels more dangerous to me. It seems pretty obvious that somehow this was the Russians but it would have made more sense to me to show the world undeniable Evidence first before taking action. What was the rush? They didnt seem to give a toss about Alexander Litvinenko and that took years to be properly investigated. Came from nowhere? :-S .........You are joking aren't you? 8-) ........ Putin was the head of the FSB (Previously known as the KGB) so in the dirty tricks department, his credentials could hardly be any higher *-) ........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 As far back as I can recall Russion leaders have always been backward looking to the glory days of total control and - with the possible exception of Gorbachev - Putin is no exception. Whether or not he is funded by crime I am not qualified to say and neither I suspect are the 11 out of 10 Russians that voted for him - not that they had any other choice of vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 Tracker - 2018-04-07 2:22 PM As far back as I can recall Russion leaders have always been backward looking to the glory days of total control and - with the possible exception of Gorbachev - Putin is no exception. Whether or not he is funded by crime I am not qualified to say and neither I suspect are the 11 out of 10 Russians that voted for him - not that they had any other choice of vote. Gorbachev was an anomaly when it comes to Russian leaders ;-) ......... As for Putin's links to their mafia, I'd say he'd be pulling their strings just as he does with Corbyn and a couple of his muppets on here :D ........ Although much like Corbyn they ain't clever enough to see the strings (lol) .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-04-07 2:47 PM Although much like Corbyn they ain't clever enough to see the strings (lol) .......... I accept that Corbyn is not the brightest light bulb in the string but the real villains, I suspect, know exactly what they are doing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted April 7, 2018 Author Share Posted April 7, 2018 Tracker - 2018-04-07 2:50 PM pelmetman - 2018-04-07 2:47 PM Although much like Corbyn they ain't clever enough to see the strings (lol) .......... I accept that Corbyn is not the brightest light bulb in the string but the real villains, I suspect, know exactly what they are doing? Are you being serious?? His calls for a calm, measured approach have so far turned out to be correct. Compare that to May rushing headlong in way ahead of substantial evidence and Johnsons lies, now pathetically excused by the FO as "a mis-saying", a damning tweet quickly removed by his own office, and it's very clear to me which ones are 'not the brightest bulb'. And now they block a relatives visa application to stop her visiting her cousin. I expect that from a Totalitarian regime.....but not by a *so called* democracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 Bulletguy - 2018-04-07 3:06 PM And now they block a relatives visa application to stop her visiting her cousin. I expect that from a Totalitarian regime.....but not by a *so called* democracy. Hahaha.........You mean that relative that Putin's trying to send to finish of his dirty work *-) ........ I bet you even think Russia is a democracy? 8-) .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-04-07 3:11 PM I bet you even think Russia is a democracy? 8-) .......... It's as much of a democracy that the UK would be if Corbyn and his nasty power and control freak henchmen (and women) pawns ever got into power. You do have to wonder why Viktoria didn't visit a few weeks ago when her alleged 'relatives' were closer to death? Maybe it was because she had no interest in seeing them unless they could hopefully tell her something to help Russia obfuscate even more? That the Skripals have refused all 'offers' of consular 'support' from Russia says much about their trust of their native government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted April 7, 2018 Author Share Posted April 7, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-04-07 3:11 PM Bulletguy - 2018-04-07 3:06 PM And now they block a relatives visa application to stop her visiting her cousin. I expect that from a Totalitarian regime.....but not by a *so called* democracy. Hahaha.........You mean that relative that Putin's trying to send to finish of his dirty work *-) ........ Don't be an idiot all your life Pelmet......take a day off now and then. *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 Bulletguy - 2018-04-07 3:28 PM Don't be an idiot all your life Pelmet......take a day off now and then. Why should he - you don't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted April 7, 2018 Author Share Posted April 7, 2018 Tracker - 2018-04-07 3:24 PM pelmetman - 2018-04-07 3:11 PM I bet you even think Russia is a democracy? 8-) .......... You do have to wonder why Viktoria didn't visit a few weeks ago when her alleged 'relatives' were closer to death? Maybe it was because she had no interest in seeing them unless they could hopefully tell her something to help Russia obfuscate even more? Given they were both still (allegedly) unconscious and i expect on an isolation ward, she wouldn't have been allowed into the hospital. That the Skripals have refused all 'offers' of consular 'support' from Russia says much about their trust of their native government. You've got this totally wrong. Yulia is a Russian citizen so not only does she have full legal right to speak to any consular officials, there have been no reports of her refusing to either. What has been reported is UK's FO considering Russia’s request for consular access. The FO would be extremely foolish to attempt denying that......but given their record over Viktorias visa application nothing would surprise me any longer. Utterly shameful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 Really - so Reuters are liars too then? https://www.reuters.com/article/britain-russia-yulia-assistance/yulia-skripal-has-not-taken-up-russian-offer-of-assistance-uk-government-idUSS8N1ME01T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted April 7, 2018 Author Share Posted April 7, 2018 Tracker - 2018-04-07 3:49 PM Really - so Reuters are liars too then? https://www.reuters.com/article/britain-russia-yulia-assistance/yulia-skripal-has-not-taken-up-russian-offer-of-assistance-uk-government-idUSS8N1ME01T And where in that article does it state Yulia refused to meet them? :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 I’m with Pelmet on this. The last thing I would expect the Home Office to do is publish exactly why they denied a visa to Viktoria. I question why a taped telephone conversation between Viktoria and Yulia was published on Russian TV. It was presented as something out of the blue and a surprise to Viktoria and yet it happened to be taped and made available on Russian State TV. The Russian propaganda machine is good but not that good that we should swallow it wholesale. Let’s face it if you were inclined to disagree with a ruling government where would you choose to live Russia or the UK? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 Bulletguy - 2018-04-07 3:40 PM You've got this totally wrong. Yulia is a Russian citizen so not only does she have full legal right to speak to any consular officials, there have been no reports of her refusing to either. What has been reported is UK's FO considering Russia’s request for consular access. The FO would be extremely foolish to attempt denying that......but given their record over Viktorias visa application nothing would surprise me any longer. Utterly shameful. So there's no reports of her wanting to see her cousin either? ;-) .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 Yulia Skripal has not taken up Russian offer of assistance - UK government LONDON, April 5 (Reuters) - The British authorities have conveyed to Yulia Skripal, a Russian woman who was poisoned a month ago in England, the Russian embassy’s offer of consular assistance but she has not taken it up, the Foreign Office in London said on Thursday. “We have conveyed to Ms Skripal the Russian Embassy’s offer of consular assistance. Ms Skripal is now able to choose if and when to take up this offer, but to date she has not done so,” the Foreign Office said. I don't see how can have missed that if you saw the report? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 Violet1956 - 2018-04-07 4:04 PM I question why a taped telephone conversation between Viktoria and Yulia was published on Russian TV. It was presented as something out of the blue and a surprise to Viktoria and yet it happened to be taped and made available on Russian State TV. The Russian propaganda machine is good but not surely not that good that we should swallow it wholesale. Let’s face it if you were inclined to disagree with a ruling government where would you choose to live Russia or the UK? The Russian propaganda machine relies heavily on the ability of the Russian surveillance machine to provide it with suitably taped and edited material, something which they are evidently better at than democracy and honesty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-04-07 2:08 PM Barryd999 - 2018-04-07 8:28 AM I saw a TV program the other day that suggested that it was Putin who was the actual puppet of the Russian Gangsters who are really running the country. Dunno if there is any truth in it but he wasn't even elected President originally, just a stand in. Someone that came from nowhere. So the profile fits. Whatever, its looking like it did in the 80s again but feels more dangerous to me. It seems pretty obvious that somehow this was the Russians but it would have made more sense to me to show the world undeniable Evidence first before taking action. What was the rush? They didnt seem to give a toss about Alexander Litvinenko and that took years to be properly investigated. Came from nowhere? :-S .........You are joking aren't you? 8-) ........ Putin was the head of the FSB (Previously known as the KGB) so in the dirty tricks department, his credentials could hardly be any higher *-) ........... No he wasnt. He was a nobody intelligence officer for 16 years and rose only as far as Lieutenant colonel before resigning to enter Politics in 1991. He was never elected as President either originally and was just an acting President originally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 Barryd999 - 2018-04-07 4:37 PM pelmetman - 2018-04-07 2:08 PM Barryd999 - 2018-04-07 8:28 AM I saw a TV program the other day that suggested that it was Putin who was the actual puppet of the Russian Gangsters who are really running the country. Dunno if there is any truth in it but he wasn't even elected President originally, just a stand in. Someone that came from nowhere. So the profile fits. Whatever, its looking like it did in the 80s again but feels more dangerous to me. It seems pretty obvious that somehow this was the Russians but it would have made more sense to me to show the world undeniable Evidence first before taking action. What was the rush? They didnt seem to give a toss about Alexander Litvinenko and that took years to be properly investigated. Came from nowhere? :-S .........You are joking aren't you? 8-) ........ Putin was the head of the FSB (Previously known as the KGB) so in the dirty tricks department, his credentials could hardly be any higher *-) ........... No he wasnt. He was a nobody intelligence officer for 16 years and rose only as far as Lieutenant colonel before resigning to enter Politics in 1991. He was never elected as President either originally and was just an acting President originally. "On 25 July 1998, Yeltsin appointed Putin as Director of the Federal Security Service (FSB), the primary intelligence and security organization of the Russian Federation and the successor to the KGB.[64]" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Putin Do keep up dear *-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted April 7, 2018 Author Share Posted April 7, 2018 Tracker - 2018-04-07 4:07 PM Yulia Skripal has not taken up Russian offer of assistance - UK government LONDON, April 5 (Reuters) - The British authorities have conveyed to Yulia Skripal, a Russian woman who was poisoned a month ago in England, the Russian embassy’s offer of consular assistance but she has not taken it up, the Foreign Office in London said on Thursday. “We have conveyed to Ms Skripal the Russian Embassy’s offer of consular assistance. Ms Skripal is now able to choose if and when to take up this offer, but to date she has not done so,” the Foreign Office said. I don't see how can have missed that if you saw the report? That wasn't my question though. Initially you stated in a post "the Skripals have refused all 'offers' of consular 'support' from Russia to which i responded, "there have been no reports of her (Yulia) refusing [consular support]". You then posted the Reuters article to which i asked, "where in that article does it state Yulia refused to meet them?" The answer is it doesn't so it's safe to say she hasn't [refused]. But from your Reuters link it also states, "Russia’s ambassador to Britain, Alexander Yakovenko, during which he repeatedly said Russia had asked for consular access to Yulia Skripal and had received no response from the British authorities." Using your conjecture by that i could say the UK has "refused" Russia consular access......but i'm not, because it hasn't stated such. Here is a more comprehensive article from a media source on the same matter. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/apr/05/yulia-skripal-says-everyone-is-getting-better-russian-tv-reports Another interesting read is in the NYT where Viktoria questions what motives Moscow could have to gain. A question many have asked and i've yet to read one credible answer. It also mentions Litvinenko's father who believes the CIA were responsible for his sons murder. It has to be remembered this report is in an American news outlet so written accordingly. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/06/world/europe/yulia-skripal-russia-britain.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted April 7, 2018 Author Share Posted April 7, 2018 Tracker - 2018-04-07 4:10 PM Violet1956 - 2018-04-07 4:04 PM I question why a taped telephone conversation between Viktoria and Yulia was published on Russian TV. It was presented as something out of the blue and a surprise to Viktoria and yet it happened to be taped and made available on Russian State TV. The Russian propaganda machine is good but not surely not that good that we should swallow it wholesale. Let’s face it if you were inclined to disagree with a ruling government where would you choose to live Russia or the UK? The Russian propaganda machine relies heavily on the ability of the Russian surveillance machine to provide it with suitably taped and edited material, something which they are evidently better at than democracy and honesty. Look no further than GCHQ and Menwith Hill, one of the most powerful intercept stations in the world plonked amidst the hills of Yorkshire. As for 'propaganda machine'.....you seriously believe Britain doesn't have it's own too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 Bulletguy - 2018-04-07 6:13 PM As for 'propaganda machine'.....you seriously believe Britain doesn't have it's own too? Did I suggest that? I must be slipping, please show me where I said that so I can correct it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted April 7, 2018 Author Share Posted April 7, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-04-07 4:43 PM Barryd999 - 2018-04-07 4:37 PM pelmetman - 2018-04-07 2:08 PM Barryd999 - 2018-04-07 8:28 AM I saw a TV program the other day that suggested that it was Putin who was the actual puppet of the Russian Gangsters who are really running the country. Dunno if there is any truth in it but he wasn't even elected President originally, just a stand in. Someone that came from nowhere. So the profile fits. Whatever, its looking like it did in the 80s again but feels more dangerous to me. It seems pretty obvious that somehow this was the Russians but it would have made more sense to me to show the world undeniable Evidence first before taking action. What was the rush? They didnt seem to give a toss about Alexander Litvinenko and that took years to be properly investigated. Came from nowhere? :-S .........You are joking aren't you? 8-) ........ Putin was the head of the FSB (Previously known as the KGB) so in the dirty tricks department, his credentials could hardly be any higher *-) ........... No he wasnt. He was a nobody intelligence officer for 16 years and rose only as far as Lieutenant colonel before resigning to enter Politics in 1991. He was never elected as President either originally and was just an acting President originally. "On 25 July 1998, Yeltsin appointed Putin as Director of the Federal Security Service (FSB), the primary intelligence and security organization of the Russian Federation and the successor to the KGB.[64]" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Putin Do keep up dear *-) ......... That depends which version you want to believe......and wiki isn't the most reliable source given anyone can edit in whatever they choose. Here are some media sources; http://www.businessinsider.com/putins-lied-about-his-rank-within-the-kgb-2015-3?IR=T https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2013/02/how-the-1980s-explains-vladimir-putin/273135/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted April 7, 2018 Author Share Posted April 7, 2018 Tracker - 2018-04-07 6:20 PM Bulletguy - 2018-04-07 6:13 PM As for 'propaganda machine'.....you seriously believe Britain doesn't have it's own too? Did I suggest that? I must be slipping, please show me where I said that so I can correct it! As your post only mentioned the Russian propaganda machine it did appear to imply that, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 Bulletguy - 2018-04-07 6:26 PM Tracker - 2018-04-07 6:20 PM Bulletguy - 2018-04-07 6:13 PM As for 'propaganda machine'.....you seriously believe Britain doesn't have it's own too? Did I suggest that? I must be slipping, please show me where I said that so I can correct it! As your post only mentioned the Russian propaganda machine it did appear to imply that, yes. Not really, but it is the typical leftist and communist response of feeling guilty to tar everyone else with your own paranoia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 Bulletguy - 2018-04-07 6:13 PM Tracker - 2018-04-07 4:10 PM Violet1956 - 2018-04-07 4:04 PM I question why a taped telephone conversation between Viktoria and Yulia was published on Russian TV. It was presented as something out of the blue and a surprise to Viktoria and yet it happened to be taped and made available on Russian State TV. The Russian propaganda machine is good but not surely not that good that we should swallow it wholesale. Let’s face it if you were inclined to disagree with a ruling government where would you choose to live Russia or the UK? The Russian propaganda machine relies heavily on the ability of the Russian surveillance machine to provide it with suitably taped and edited material, something which they are evidently better at than democracy and honesty. Look no further than GCHQ and Menwith Hill, one of the most powerful intercept stations in the world plonked amidst the hills of Yorkshire. As for 'propaganda machine'.....you seriously believe Britain doesn't have it's own too? Of course I don't BG. It is necessary to combat the c**p that the Russians spew out. We don't imprison political dissidents or silence those who exercise their right to the freedom of speech by imprisoning them. It's a case of the least worst available source of information that deserves to be given the benefit of the doubt on where the truth lies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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