Its back, what now?

[oorgiz]

I get my van back tomorrow, (big deal I hear you say) it is to me, it went into our local garage with a small oil leek seven weeks ago, it was due back 2 days later, but no, it turns out that the 97 Fiat Hymer that I bought at the york show has an engine thats 2 years older and Fiat dont stock the oil seal I needed. The garage hit a brick wall with Fiat but as luck would have it they use a hydraulic supply Co who were able to match it up with one of thiers, so it was partialy built today and run for an hour, no leek so as I said its back tomorrow.

 

Now what I need to know is where do I stand with the dealer who sold me a 97 van, with an engine which I now know is 2 years older and obviously a problem when locating parts and in line with our old friend Dogmad I also dont have a red key,

 

I contacted the dealer way back and told him about the leek which must have been obvious when they changed the cam belt before delivery,

they fobbed me off with waffle but did say they would cover the bill for the leek, I have been back in touch during its stay in the local garage, but thay just didn't seem interested.

So what should I do now?

Although I loved the van at first I feel dishartened at the thought of future problems.

Any advice offered will be seriously taken, Am I making a mountain out of a mole hill or are there problems round the corner?

 

oorgiz

 

[Guest peter]

Contact your nearest Fiat main dealer and give them the V.I.N number and engine number and they will tell you when the chassis was made. If it's an import it could have been wrongly registered with Swansea (fraudently?).

If it turns out to be older than stated you may have a case for rejecting the Van. As I did when sold a 1994 van as a year 2000. Or it could be that Hymer had it for two years before selling it new. How much evidence is there from previous owners Etc? Do you have the original owners details? Is it a LHD vehicle? You need to do some detective work to find out it's provenance. Or it could all be perfectly innocent and have had the engine changed, Swansea could maybe clarify this. Though why someone would put an older engine in is beyond me.

[Globetrotter]

I suspect that you have a slightly older chassis than 1997. My 1996 Ducato based A class has the 2.5 TDI engine. They changed to the 2.8 engine not long afterwards I believe, so I suspect that you have the 2.5 like mine. There shouldnt be a problem with spares though-it aint that old!!!

[Brian Kirby]

Graham

Agreed - first do as advised above and check the chassis age.  If/when you find out about the chassis build date, even if that merely coincides with the engine date, see if you can get any info from Hymer UK as to the date Hymer built the actual van.  You may need to contact Hymer in Germany for a quick response, but the UK end should be able to get the info for you.  At least they should be able to tell you, if you don't already know, which number off the Hymer plate to quote to get their system to work.  I believe Hymer do keep very good records, though whether they maintain them for 9 years I know not.  However, they'll tell you, but I'll be very surprised if they had the chassis standing around for two years before converting it.  They're too slick an operation for that!

I'd suggest you ask the garage for a report on what they found.  If they are a Fiat service centre they can get into the Fiat database and should be able to tell you about the chassis as well as the engine.  If that bears out the disparity in ages, ask them to run a compression test on the engine, or anything else that would indicate the state of wear.  If someone has blown up the original engine and replaced it with a cheap one from a scrap yard just to trade the van (probably not your dealership), that engine could just have covered hundreds of thousands of miles and be totally knackered.  Sorry for that comfroting thought!

I think, if you tell them you think you may have been had over the dates, assuming they are a bona-fide firm, and as you're paying them, you'll find they will cooperate, within reason.

If the results are that you have a "wrong un", before you go back to the dealership who sold the van to you, get down to your local Trading Standards with the sales invoice, the garage receipt and any other documantary evidence you have and ask them where they think you stand, and what your options are.  However, irrespective of the age of the vehicle, if it isn't what it was portrayed as being when you bought it, you should be able to reject it as having been incorrectly sold.

Good luck, and do keep us informed how you get on.

[Mel B]

My only thoughs are that if the van was registered as a 1997 van and subsequently sold as such I wouldn't think you would have much recourse on the 'age' issue. If however they claimed it was registered in 1997 but it was really 1995 then that's down to misrepresentation under the Trades Descriptoin Act I believe and is a different thing entirely. When you bought the van what engine did the dealership say it was? Was it actually advertised giving this information? Was it correct? What date does your vehicle document (DVLA) say? It should, as well as the registration date, say what engine CC it is.

 

We had a similar situation with our Vauxhall Meriva which we bought at 6 months old, we were told it was a 16v but when we checked it we found it was an 8v version, this I had confirmed from Vauxhall by email who were very helpful. We then went back to the dealer who sold us the car and played merry hell - the car was still very good but wasn't what we thought we were buying. They tried to squirm out of it by saying they'd told us it was an 8v, however, they'd forgotten that when handing over the car they'd given us an envelope with the spare key in and on it was a label which clearly stated it was a 16v Meriva with the registration number. As we had this piece of evicence they soon backed down and agreed to give us a bit of money back so we were happy but if we hadn't had that envelope we'd have been totally stuffed.

 

I wish you good luck in your quest.

 

 

[Philman]

Oorgiz, have you checked that the chassis and engine numbers in the registration document agree with the actual chassis and engine numbers?

 

If the engine has been changed since original registration I think there should be a note to this effect in the registration doc.

 

Phil.