Fiat Ducato 2.3 E Recall

[GaryM]

For those who may have missed the recent recall letter from Fiat. They are recalling all new Ducato 2.3 models due to a faulty intercooler sleeve collar that can cause rapid lost of power to the accelerator. This is an heightened accident risk. I have experienced it with my motor home losing power 8 times while driving along the motorway and slowing down for roundabouts. Extremely frightening experience as one loses drive power until the van is stationary.

 

Talking to the Fiat dealer they say they have been inundated by call so contact them as soon as possible for the fix that should take on Fiat's estimate 30 minutes.

[darcywick]

That is about the time taken to do mine. I have just had yet another recall for a further software update this time.

[Keith T]

darcywick - 2018-04-28 5:09 PM

 

That is about the time taken to do mine. I have just had yet another recall for a further software update this time.

 

Can you advise us what the latest recall is for, please??

[Derek Uzzell]

Is the recall GaryM mentions the final entry on the Ducato-related list on the DVSA recall website, or an even more recent recall?

 

https://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/apps/recalls/searches/search.asp

 

The DVSA entry applies only to Ducatos built from mid-February 2016 to mid-September 2017 and the details on the DVSA website are as follows:

 

Launch Date - 16 March 2018

 

Recalls Number - R/2018/038

 

Concern - Intercooler sleeve may detach from the throttle body. The engine management light will illuminate and a loss of power may occur.

 

VIN start - 02781370

 

VIN end - 02F64300

 

Build start - 17/02/2016

 

Build end - 13/09/2017

 

It was mentioned on this forum in February

 

http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Another-fiat-x290-Euro6-recall-/48656/

 

and was well-reported on-line

 

https://tinyurl.com/yauw5h8t

 

 

[GaryM]

Thanks. I enquired who sold me the van and he said nobody had reported such faults. I went online (but unfortunately not to this site) but no reports and even paid a online mechanic to advise. Its alarming to me it was recognized back in February. My trip in my van was a scary nightmare with it coasting across major roundabouts with no power to the accelerator. Where is Fiats testing so we don't get put into these accident risk situations!

[darcywick]

The only recall notification I have received by mail is for the collar, all others have been done after contacting Fiat professional after seeing mention on here. The latest software update was done after contacting Fiat Professional after Camper App went red, performed last Thursday.

[dicksob]

Hi there have been 2 recent recalls for the Ducato. The widely reported and complained about EGR recall for which many seem to be waiting and the much less serious clip replacement.

 

If you download the Fiat camper app, put your chassis number in, it will tell you if your van is subject to any recalls. Glad to say mine is now green and clear!!

 

Bill

 

[monique.hubrechtsgm]

A picture of that intercooler sleeve connector to the throttle body and what was wrong whit is welcome if anyone was able to take a picture of its location.

[Derek Uzzell]

My understanding is that the intercooler-sleeve that may become loose is the rubber ‘hose' that connects the intercooler to the motor’s throttle body.

 

An Australian website advises that the ‘fix' involves replacing the existing metal retention band with a new one that (according to Fiat) "has features to ensure” that the sleeve stays in place between the intercooler and throttle body.

[pagey]

Derek Uzzell - 2018-04-30 8:50 AM

 

My understanding is that the intercooler-sleeve that may become loose is the rubber ‘hose' that connects the intercooler to the motor’s throttle body.

 

An Australian website advises that the ‘fix' involves replacing the existing metal retention band with a new one that (according to Fiat) "has features to ensure” that the sleeve stays in place between the intercooler and throttle body.

hi derek all they do is replace the band with a jubilee clip theres progress for you (lol)

[GaryM]

My Vehicle is still to go in for the intercooler collar sleeve fix. As a new driver of Fiat vans I see Fiat are not very proactive in informing their customers of the faults/recalls. It seems the same with their Professional dealers. The one near me was unaware of the recall and said his phone has been 'hot' with customers calling about it.

 

Being new to the forum, I wonder if anyone can direct me to other faults in the Ducato 2016-17 models that I can ask Fiat Professional to look at all when I finally get a booking. Thanks.

[GaryM]

Would the intercooler sleeve collar problem cause a vehicle to drive normally but then after deceleration it would lose power until completely stationary, but then drive off ok? The reason I ask is on bring back from the dealer my new Auto Trail motor home last December I had this event 8 times on the motorway and roundabouts. No power until the vehicle was completely stopped and then power regained to the accelerator.

 

The fault sounds like once detached the vehicle would always not have power, so is what I experienced maybe even more sinister? It seems to happen when the engine is hot, as did not happen until I travelled at least 20 miles, and was unable to be reproduced in a short test drive by the RAC.

[Keith T]

dicksob - 2018-04-29 2:23 PM

 

 

If you download the Fiat camper app, put your chassis number in, it will tell you if your van is subject to any recalls. Bill

 

Does the FIAT camper App work for all models ( we have a 610SE V=line) and also is it only on 2018 models??

[dicksob]

Yes, download the app from App Store (if using an iPhone), put in your vin number and your away! Very useful, also the Fiat camper assist team are really helpful, at least that’s my experience!

Bill

 

[Derek Uzzell]

GaryM - 2018-04-30 5:31 PM

 

...Being new to the forum, I wonder if anyone can direct me to other faults in the Ducato 2016-17 models that I can ask Fiat Professional to look at all when I finally get a booking. Thanks.

 

Three safety-related recalls are mentioned on the DVSA website as being relevant to 2016-2017 Ducatos. (I’ll leave you to search the DVSA website yourself.)

 

https://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/apps/recalls/searches/search.asp

 

I would have thought that (as you suggest) if the hose between the intercooler and throttle-body completely detached, there would be an immediate loss of power and this condition would not improve until the fault was rectified. But I’ve no information about the incidents that have caused Fiat to issue the ‘sleeve’ recall and how the vehicles that were afflicted by the problem were affected.

 

This is a preventive recall to address a problem that might happen and, if the ‘sleeve’ is still properly attached to the intercooler/throttle-body on your Ducato, logically the loss of power you experienced had nothing to do with the sleeve.

 

Prior to taking your motorhome for attention under the ‘sleeve’ recall, you need to tell the Fiat Professional agent about last December’s loss of power problem so that it can be investigated, as it’s quite possible that fault codes will have been stored in the vehicle’s ‘memory’ that may identify the cause. (Presumably the vehicle has not done this since?)

 

(Regarding replacing the sleeve’s original factory-fitted fastener with a ‘jubilee clip’, an internet search will show that worm-drive clips are commonly used to retain intercooler hoses and some of these clips can be sophisticated and expensive. The reason the type of fastener Fiat will have used orginally will not be because it’s inherently superior to a suitable worm-drive clip, but because it’s quicker to fit and needs minimal human skill. This type of fastener is employed on other hoses on the Ducato motor and (I suspect) the fastener will be ‘single use’ requiring a special tool to fit. It’s likely that, if a hose retained by this type of fastener needs to be detached, standard practice will be to replace it with a worm-drive clip when reattaching the hose.)

[GaryM]

Thanks for the advice. I was originally thinking it was something due to the Stop Start feature but do not see any posts related to that. I cannot think what else it could be. The van is brand new. I will certainly take your advice and get Fiat Professional know so they can look into it. Due to go to S Devon in June and not fancying the 8 mile M4 roadwork/contraflow Reading to Newbury turn-off.

[darcywick]

Why not use the fiat professional HTC at Theale Reading if your routes take you M4 to Newbery

[Derek Uzzell]

GaryM - 2018-05-01 3:27 PM

 

Thanks for the advice. I was originally thinking it was something due to the Stop Start feature but do not see any posts related to that. I cannot think what else it could be...

 

I’m pretty sure that Fiat's “Stop&Stop” feature is only provided on Ducatos with an ECOJET motor that demands AdBlue and I’m not aware that this powerplant has ever been fitted to motorhomes. You could tell if your Auto-Trail did have the Start&Stop feature, as this would be evident from it having a specialised set of buttons on the lower dashboard (by the MODE button) that included a dedicated button (with an “A” on it) to operate Stop&Start. There’s a section about it in the Owner Handbook.

 

I notice that this late-2016 Fiat Forum entry

 

https://www.fiatforum.com/ducato/444384-fiat-ducato-power-loss-when-driving.html

 

mentioned intermittent loss of power on two newish Ducato-based motorhomes. The cause of the problem was not reported, though the guess that it might have been throttle-pedal-related seems reasonable.

 

 

 

[monique.hubrechtsgm]

For some reason the start- stop is not common on motorhomes.Because of voltage drops. On a westfalia Van the second batt option is in two versions one std and one start stop compatible on vw t6. For sure your start stop will not work when your airco compressor is running as is most the case in france and spain.

[euroserv]

Hello.

Here comes a science bit.....

 

In the past, when an intercooler pipe became loose, damaged or detatched, there would be an immediate loss of power and probably a lot of black smoke coming out of the exhaust but you could limp along on part throttle and get yourself home or to a workshop.

 

This is no longer the case.

 

In a Euro4 or newer vehicle, there are a number of devices monitoring the health and emissions from an engine and a sudden loss of pressure in the inlet side will cause all kinds of upset. The manifold pressure is monitored and regulated by the throttle body and EGR valves but if a problem occurs that these devices cannot overcome, there will be an immediate drop in power to prevent a large ball of soot blocking up your particulate filter. Once the vehicle comes to a stop and is idling, a minor leak will present no problem and the ECU will allow the accelerator to be pressed but if the leak becomes greater again; the process will begin again. These pipes expand greatly under pressure and there is certainly a lot of pressure generated in turbo pipes. At idle speed the hose in question may fit fairly snugly but even a little throttle and load as you drive away could be enough to open up a split, or exacerbate a loose hose.

 

A jubilee clip is a far better solution than the bands that are typically fitted at the factory where the hoses etc are assembled. I would consider it to be an improvement and certainly not a bodge.

 

Hope that helps a bit.

Nick

[monique.hubrechtsgm]

Not in that size of tube, You can overstress the tubing.

[euroserv]

Hello Monique,

 

Jubilee clips come in different widths: We keep them in 6, 9, and 12mm.

 

The largest of these is considerably wider than the original band and is removable and adjustable therefore is a perfectly suitable method for securing the hose. It has been this way for a long, long time and is most certainly an improvement over the OE solution that is failing. In fact, removing the original band is more likely to stress the sleeve because you have to twist and break it.

 

I will stick to my day job.

[GaryM]

Thanks Nick for an informative answer.

 

Fiat Professional have been total atrocious in handling the issue. The vehicle is brand new and the incidents happened as I was bring the vehicle back from the sales dealer. So scary. I contacted my local Fiat Professional dealer who said from my account of the driving its too dangerous to drive to the garage. As I did not have RAC home start he was going to arrange a low loader to bring it for me. He said Fiat Professional should pay. Yesterday I got a very disturbing phone call from Fiat Italy saying they would not pay. I outlined the safety and accident risk, especially as the dealer is in the centre of a busy city, but they just said they have no 'process' to pay for such arrangements. The customer services agent even said was so insensitive to say that if I drove it and it broke down they would then recover the vehicle.

 

I really feel like returning the vehicle and ending my motor home experience. I cannot get the fault fixed elsewhere as I brake the warranty, they give me early July as the first date they can fix the vehicle, and they expect me to pay to transport a defective new vehicle. I would say my Fiat experience ranks very low in my life experiences to day.

[euroserv]

Hi,

If the vehicle is less than one year old you have the comprehensive Fiat Assistance package. You have to call the number in your handbook and tell them what the problem is. I would say that it has happened many times before but this time you got to the end of the road and had to turn back because it scared you. They will send someone out to look at it and if they can't fix it at the side of the road and it is too dangerous to drive to the workshop; they will organise a recovery to the nearest Fiat Pro dealer.

 

It's not perfect by any means and the previous set up with the AA (for 3 years) was much better but there is a process to follow and they will not do it any other way.

 

If the vehicle is more than a year old, drive it as far as you can under light throttle then call your non- home start membership and get them to take it the rest of the way.

 

In any case i would be speaking again to Fiat customer services and opening a case so that they monitor progress and learn from their errors. There may be some goodwill compensation offered but i can't stress enough; if you don't follow the procedures laid out in your handbook, they will be much less helpful and even obstructive.

 

If you have to pay for a recovery on a vehicle that is over a year old but still under warranty and the fault is covered by the warranty; you have a right to expect to be reimbursed for the recovery if the vehicle could not be driven safely. This is not a law but it is certainly an obligation.

 

Customer service in this industry is appalling. There is not one van or truck manufacturer that goes anywhere near far enough to make things right when they go wrong. I had a customer tell me just last week that their Ford Transit had broken down at just over a year old. The RAC provided them with a vehicle for 3 days and they had to give it back; leaving them with no van for the next 4 weeks when the Ford dealer is allegedly going to be able to repair theirs!

It's just not good enough. Sorry; feeling like a rant today.