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Trade deals, with who exactly?


Barryd999

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Australia? New Zealand?

 

Kiwi trade minister summed it up nicely:

 

“The EU is our third-largest trading partner, with two-way trade worth more than $20bn. Even excluding the UK, our trade with the EU is worth about $16bn annually.”

 

And from the Aussies:

 

"The European Union is Australia’s second-largest trading partner, worth close to $100 billion, and officials have spent decades trying to increase our access to the single market."

 

In recent months, the EU has struck deals with Canada, Japan, Singapore, Vietnam and Mexico.

 

So who exactly are the Brexiteers going to set up all these wonderful trade deals with? There is naff all left that isnt either done, on the way or not worth bothering with. Please dont say Trump. We want nothing to do with him, his dodgy chicken, beef or drugs.

 

Have a look at the map below. We desperately need to export, who and what are we going to export to under what deal and why would we get a better deal than the EU bloc with its single market which everyone wants access to?

 

http://www.consilium.europa.eu/media/10522/eutrademap2017.jpg

 

I am starting to wonder if the Brexiteers really dont care about trade or the economy at all. Its almost like its some kind of suicide mission based purely on pride now.

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Barryd999 - 2018-05-23 9:34 AM

 

In recent months, the EU has struck deals with Canada, Japan, Singapore, Vietnam and Mexico.

 

 

Amazing how after years of faffing about the EU suddenly got it's act together isn't it?

 

Amazing how the reality of the UK leaving has focused EU civil servants to finally get off their backsides?

 

Is this a reactive club that we really want to be part of or is it an entity of overpaid beaurocrats, that we pay for, concerned only with self preservation in the face of potential opposition from an ex member?

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These things take time and if they take time for a huge bloc like the EU with a market of half a million people how long are they going to take for a small country like ours which is no longer part of that bloc?

 

That does not answer the question though. Who exactly are we pinning our hopes on and why would they prioritise us over Europe when in fact most of them just wanted to use us to leapfrog into the single market anyway.

 

Look at the map. Its all sewn up.

 

I am finding it very hard now to find anything left out of the Brexit promises to look forward to apart from everyone being poorer as a result. £900 per family so far apparently and we havent left yet.

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I'm sure I've heard you say you've been to the States Barry ... I'm sure it hasn't been while POTUS Trumps been in office ... While there did you enjoy the chicken and the burgers or did you live off salad ... Why is it POTUS Trumps chicken and beef it's been that way in the States for years ... If we ever do end up with American meat here guess what it will have a country of origin label on it so you don't buy it just like we cancelled a restaurant yesterday for the weekend after realising they are halal ... It's not difficult
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Barryd999 - 2018-05-23 11:02 AM

I am finding it very hard now to find anything left out of the Brexit promises to look forward to apart from everyone being poorer as a result. £900 per family so far apparently and we havent left yet.

 

You do yourself and your arguments no favours Barry when you quote biased hypothesis like that. Whatever the source and whoever the alleged experts are it is all just biased speculation.

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Tracker - 2018-05-23 12:38 PM

 

Barryd999 - 2018-05-23 11:02 AM

I am finding it very hard now to find anything left out of the Brexit promises to look forward to apart from everyone being poorer as a result. £900 per family so far apparently and we havent left yet.

 

You do yourself and your arguments no favours Barry when you quote biased hypothesis like that. Whatever the source and whoever the alleged experts are it is all just biased speculation.

 

Well no, it was Mark Carney who said it based on the loss of GDP since the vote against where it should have been as per forecasts before the referendum and compared to how well everyone else around us has done since against our performance. Its a bit bonkers as its just a figure based on our losses against the population but whichever way you look at it is a loss. Before we leave.

 

Still no answers on where our wonderful trade deals that will be better and bigger than what we currently have are coming from then? I Thought this was one of the big selling points of Brexit. Still really struggling to see where the joy is to be honest.

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Barryd999 - 2018-05-23 6:45 PM

 

Tracker - 2018-05-23 12:38 PM

 

Barryd999 - 2018-05-23 11:02 AM

I am finding it very hard now to find anything left out of the Brexit promises to look forward to apart from everyone being poorer as a result. £900 per family so far apparently and we havent left yet.

 

You do yourself and your arguments no favours Barry when you quote biased hypothesis like that. Whatever the source and whoever the alleged experts are it is all just biased speculation.

 

Well no, it was Mark Carney who said it based on the loss of GDP since the vote against where it should have been as per forecasts before the referendum and compared to how well everyone else around us has done since against our performance. Its a bit bonkers as its just a figure based on our losses against the population but whichever way you look at it is a loss. Before we leave.

 

Still no answers on where our wonderful trade deals that will be better and bigger than what we currently have are coming from then? I Thought this was one of the big selling points of Brexit. Still really struggling to see where the joy is to be honest.

 

The same Mark Carney that warned of recession if a Leave vote won ??? ... Have you looked to see who Australia has free trade deals with Barry ??? ... Just because they have a deal with the EU does that mean we cant strike a deal ??? ... If Poland and some of the old Eastern bloc and Italy tell the EU to do one wont they do deals with them ???

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The map says it all, really, doesn't it? (Excellent find, Barry, I have a list, but the map is far more compelling)

 

The above replies are disappointing. It is a valid, and serious, question, that no-one seems inclined to answer.

 

With that much of the world already signed into various trade deals, in which we shall be ineligible to participate post Brexit, where and when do we get the deals that will give us equal access to those markets? Failing that, where are the alternative markets that will give us the same trade opportunities?

 

Come on you guys, there is no point in adopting the attitude of the child who stands in the middle of the room with its eyes covered, saying "you can't see me". I am fully aware that we can trade with anyone in the absence of a deal, but trade deals make trade easier and cheaper. Are we really likely to be so much better off trading outside the deals the EU has already negotiated, than within them? (Just to be clear, when I say we, I mean Britain as a whole, not you and me.)

 

Britain needs to trade with other countries, not least because we need to import so much, and must earn the revenues to pay for our imports. If we damage our overseas trade, we inevitably damage our economy - and with that the living standards of the vast majority of our population.

 

That is the prospect, and noises about the EU being slow off the mark, or merely goaded into action by the prospect of Britain leaving, or an apparent (though hardly credible) belief that the US will come cantering to the rescue, really don't seem to face up to the reality the question poses. Sorry!

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You would not expect any negotiators to tell the world what they are saying in private so just because you don't know what trade deals are on offer does not mean there are none.

No country with any savvy would do a deal with any other country, or bloc of countries, that precludes them from doing a deal with any other country.

Marc Carney I believe, and correct me if I am wrong as I do not follow it close enough to remember, has been proven to be incorrect in his previous readings of the Brexit situation?

So whilst I share your concerns I do not subscribe to your repeated prophesies of doom and gloom.

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They make you laugh Rich ... Massive Euroscepticism throughout Europe in Poland , Austria , Italy , Hungary , Czech Republic , Germany with Afd and France etc etc ... Italys new President says "immediate negotiations over European budgets , asylum rights and the banking union" must take place ... Italy has already said it will send back 500.000 chancers and has more than suggested its willing to pull out of the Euro ... Yet the blind just carry on pretty much like Brian says in a way with fingers in their ears , stamping their feet shouting no no no ... The EU as we know it is dying yet they want to stay in it
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I said it wasnt a really meaningful figure, it could actually be a lot worse! Its undeniable that we are already worse off because of Brexit but I think it was a mistake to try and put a figure on it. Carney's predictions of a recession here are probably just delayed due to the world economy boom post Brexit vote but its coming, just not as quick as he predicted.

 

You can say what you like about those other countries Antony but none of them are even close to voting out of the EU. I posted figures from opinion polls a while back and even Italy was still 60/40 in favour of remaining. Even your pal Le Pen has dropped quitting the Euro from their manifesto. Nobody says that other countries are all totally delighted with the EU but none of them will leave it.

 

This thread is about these wonderful trade deals we are going to get though and I will bet my house that nobody will come back with anything concrete that is better than what we have now by a country mile. That map shows it all. Its just a pity it wasnt stuck on the side of a big red bus in 2016.

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Barryd999 - 2018-05-23 10:01 PM

 

I said it wasnt a really meaningful figure, it could actually be a lot worse! Its undeniable that we are already worse off because of Brexit but I think it was a mistake to try and put a figure on it. Carney's predictions of a recession here are probably just delayed due to the world economy boom post Brexit vote but its coming, just not as quick as he predicted.

 

You can say what you like about those other countries Antony but none of them are even close to voting out of the EU. I posted figures from opinion polls a while back and even Italy was still 60/40 in favour of remaining. Even your pal Le Pen has dropped quitting the Euro from their manifesto. Nobody says that other countries are all totally delighted with the EU but none of them will leave it.

 

This thread is about these wonderful trade deals we are going to get though and I will bet my house that nobody will come back with anything concrete that is better than what we have now by a country mile. That map shows it all. Its just a pity it wasnt stuck on the side of a big red bus in 2016.

 

You said it wasn't a "meaningful figure" when Rich Found you out on it ... Regarding the polls you still believe in telling you what you want to hear I think your the only person in the world who still believes in em ... Yet again we've just had local elections that the polls suggested were going to finish the Tories off ??? ... I think your mad and blind to whats happening in other Euro countries even Germany and you need to read up on Le Pens views on the EU and the Euro ... As for deals well like you keep saying we haven't left yet and none of us I believe know anyone who works for our Government trade deal team so just how the hell you me or anyone is meant to know whats going on behind the scenes is beyond me ... Remember also new trade deals were only part of the reason for voting to leave

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antony1969 - 2018-05-24 6:51 AM

 

Barryd999 - 2018-05-23 10:01 PM

 

I said it wasnt a really meaningful figure, it could actually be a lot worse! Its undeniable that we are already worse off because of Brexit but I think it was a mistake to try and put a figure on it. Carney's predictions of a recession here are probably just delayed due to the world economy boom post Brexit vote but its coming, just not as quick as he predicted.

 

You can say what you like about those other countries Antony but none of them are even close to voting out of the EU. I posted figures from opinion polls a while back and even Italy was still 60/40 in favour of remaining. Even your pal Le Pen has dropped quitting the Euro from their manifesto. Nobody says that other countries are all totally delighted with the EU but none of them will leave it.

 

This thread is about these wonderful trade deals we are going to get though and I will bet my house that nobody will come back with anything concrete that is better than what we have now by a country mile. That map shows it all. Its just a pity it wasnt stuck on the side of a big red bus in 2016.

 

You said it wasn't a "meaningful figure" when Rich Found you out on it ... Regarding the polls you still believe in telling you what you want to hear I think your the only person in the world who still believes in em ... Yet again we've just had local elections that the polls suggested were going to finish the Tories off ??? ... I think your mad and blind to whats happening in other Euro countries even Germany and you need to read up on Le Pens views on the EU and the Euro ... As for deals well like you keep saying we haven't left yet and none of us I believe know anyone who works for our Government trade deal team so just how the hell you me or anyone is meant to know whats going on behind the scenes is beyond me ... Remember also new trade deals were only part of the reason for voting to leave

 

Ignoring the other tosh in your post, they were a pretty important one but clearly another Brexit lie as there is nowhere to go and nothing to flog. Another Brexit myth just like the £350m for the NHS, immigration, taking back control of our laws, sovereignty etc etc. We were told we would prosper and soar ahead after Brexit. A complete load of lies. The only people soaring ahead will be the tax dodging super rich Brexiteers. The rest of us are fooked.

 

Stuff going on behind the scenes? (lol) What Foxy negotiating with the World? We dont even have any negotiators, Boris just flits around the world offending everyone and getting laughed at. Fox couldnt negotiate his way out of a wet paper bag and Davis. Oh FFS! If you think there is some army of super cool "Suits" type characters quietly working to save the day in the background you really are living in cloud cuckoo land.

 

Trade deals and the myth of trade Utopia outside of the EU are just that, a myth. Another Brexit con job.

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Barryd999 - 2018-05-24 7:53 AM

 

 

, Boris just flits around the world offending everyone and getting laughed at. .

 

 

But Boris has a plan.

 

He now thinks he should have his own private jet which would enable him to flit around the world making deals.

 

He doesn't like the one that other ministers use as it's not a very nice colour.

 

;-)

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I am still wondering if the "Sainted Theresa" as she was known on here by some for a while (now dropped it seems) is really playing the long remain game. Why else would she appoint such a bunch of complete fools to lead us out of Europe and negotiate with the rest of the world? Wasn't there anyone else? Is Davis the best we can offer? Or Boris? Feck me!

 

Maybe the master plan is to cock it up so badly that nobody but Antony and Dave will want to leave :D

 

Who has faith in any of them? They just look stupid and incompetent. Then again I guess anyone trying to continuously batter square pegs into round holes always will eventually when everyone else can see they won't fit.

 

To be fair to the hard Brexiteers, those that have stuck to the walk away and flick the v's idea of Brexit at least it's honest if bonkers.

 

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Barryd999 - 2018-05-24 7:53 AM

 

antony1969 - 2018-05-24 6:51 AM

 

Barryd999 - 2018-05-23 10:01 PM

 

I said it wasnt a really meaningful figure, it could actually be a lot worse! Its undeniable that we are already worse off because of Brexit but I think it was a mistake to try and put a figure on it. Carney's predictions of a recession here are probably just delayed due to the world economy boom post Brexit vote but its coming, just not as quick as he predicted.

 

You can say what you like about those other countries Antony but none of them are even close to voting out of the EU. I posted figures from opinion polls a while back and even Italy was still 60/40 in favour of remaining. Even your pal Le Pen has dropped quitting the Euro from their manifesto. Nobody says that other countries are all totally delighted with the EU but none of them will leave it.

 

This thread is about these wonderful trade deals we are going to get though and I will bet my house that nobody will come back with anything concrete that is better than what we have now by a country mile. That map shows it all. Its just a pity it wasnt stuck on the side of a big red bus in 2016.

 

You said it wasn't a "meaningful figure" when Rich Found you out on it ... Regarding the polls you still believe in telling you what you want to hear I think your the only person in the world who still believes in em ... Yet again we've just had local elections that the polls suggested were going to finish the Tories off ??? ... I think your mad and blind to whats happening in other Euro countries even Germany and you need to read up on Le Pens views on the EU and the Euro ... As for deals well like you keep saying we haven't left yet and none of us I believe know anyone who works for our Government trade deal team so just how the hell you me or anyone is meant to know whats going on behind the scenes is beyond me ... Remember also new trade deals were only part of the reason for voting to leave

 

Ignoring the other tosh in your post, they were a pretty important one but clearly another Brexit lie as there is nowhere to go and nothing to flog. Another Brexit myth just like the £350m for the NHS, immigration, taking back control of our laws, sovereignty etc etc. We were told we would prosper and soar ahead after Brexit. A complete load of lies. The only people soaring ahead will be the tax dodging super rich Brexiteers. The rest of us are fooked.

 

Stuff going on behind the scenes? (lol) What Foxy negotiating with the World? We dont even have any negotiators, Boris just flits around the world offending everyone and getting laughed at. Fox couldnt negotiate his way out of a wet paper bag and Davis. Oh FFS! If you think there is some army of super cool "Suits" type characters quietly working to save the day in the background you really are living in cloud cuckoo land.

 

Trade deals and the myth of trade Utopia outside of the EU are just that, a myth. Another Brexit con job.

 

Well I know who I'd prefer to take my chances with and believe and it certainly aint a fella who tells us a Labour Party with a monkey in charge will be in Government before Brexit in 308 days and also tells us he'd rather starve to death than do a deal with POTUS Trump , a man he can tell hates women just by looking at him because he's met those types before but yet he would probably not bat an eyelid at Turkey ever joining the EU ... If anti-EU feelings are tosh as you describe it then that kind of sums up your EU attitude perfectly and regarding Foxy and Boris and wet paper bag Davis if you let me into what you know about any negotiations that have taken place already then that would be good

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Tracker - 2018-05-23 7:19 PM

You would not expect any negotiators to tell the world what they are saying in private so just because you don't know what trade deals are on offer does not mean there are none.

But is anyone asking that they do? The question was where are these countries with which we can negotiate trade deals, with which we do not already benefit (if we choose to) through the EU? Naming the countries is hardly an act of economic treason.

 

No country with any savvy would do a deal with any other country, or bloc of countries, that precludes them from doing a deal with any other country.

All trade deals contain restrictions or reciprocal undertakings. If you want to trade without restraint, you have to accept WTO terms. This, whether or not members of the EU, we can already do (as do the other members). We do not need to leave the EU to do that.

 

Marc Carney I believe, and correct me if I am wrong as I do not follow it close enough to remember, has been proven to be incorrect in his previous readings of the Brexit situation?

Coming from (I hope I'm not making false allegations! :-)) an ex insurance man, this surprises me.

 

All insurance is based on selling a means of obtaining compensation or recompense for the consequences of misfortune. If X happens, we will pay you Y. Behind that simple concept lies a lot of statistical data relating to the propensity of the applicant to suffer the insured event. This does not mean that an accurate forecast of the occurrence of the insured event is made, just that on average there is a calculated probability (in terms of however many times per thousand, million, etc. those insured against the event claim) of the company having to pay out. This is usually modified by the answers given to questions on the insurance application.

 

In the case of Brexit, the applicant had provided no details in his application form, only that he wanted to leave. So, calculating the probable consequences of the action involved a large number of undefined variables. So, assumptions had to be made in order to try to give the forecasts some statistical basis.

 

What I think you are saying is that the BoE forecasts were not based on the date on which Article 50 would be triggered (which would impact the probable timescales) or on the exact terns under which we might leave (which would impact the economic impact of leaving). Under the circumstances, for the forecasts to have proved accurate would have required a supernatural level of clairvoyance as to time and economic impact. All they could do is indicate the most probable outcome in general terms which, I think, has so far proved the case.

 

There is now a considerable and growing body of evidence that those early forecasts are broadly right in terms of both probable impact and (if allowance is made for the timing of triggering Article 50 and the slowness of those, oh so quick and easy, negotiations) timescales. The fault of the BoE was to try to produce any forecast at all, rather than to say we cannot possibly say what may happen, because you can't tell us when, or on what terms, we may leave.

 

That is why it is important that those countries with which we may strike trade deals are identified. It would then be possible to look at those economies, their strengths and weaknesses, and provisionally estimate what level of trade (import and export) we may be able to do, and what benefit or otherwise that trade might bring.

 

We are flying blind, in fog, without a compass, without knowledge of wind strength or direction, unable to climb above 8,000 feet, in an area where we know that there are mountains to 10,000 feet. It is that good! Mayday? 8-)

 

These were forecasts, (think weather forecasts for August 2019!), not flight plans. If you diss all the experts, to whom will you turn for guidance? Soothsayers? Yes, I know! :-D

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Brian Kirby - 2018-05-24 6:47 PM

These were forecasts, (think weather forecasts for August 2019!), not flight plans. If you diss all the experts, to whom will you turn for guidance? Soothsayers? Yes, I know! :-D

 

I like the analogy Brian very astute, if the Met office can't even get tomorrow's weather forecast right what chance have other alleged experts of forecasting Brexit when so many unknown and often unforseen variables may, or may not, come into play.

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antony1969 - 2018-05-24 10:26 AM

 

Barryd999 - 2018-05-24 7:53 AM

 

antony1969 - 2018-05-24 6:51 AM

 

Barryd999 - 2018-05-23 10:01 PM

 

I said it wasnt a really meaningful figure, it could actually be a lot worse! Its undeniable that we are already worse off because of Brexit but I think it was a mistake to try and put a figure on it. Carney's predictions of a recession here are probably just delayed due to the world economy boom post Brexit vote but its coming, just not as quick as he predicted.

 

You can say what you like about those other countries Antony but none of them are even close to voting out of the EU. I posted figures from opinion polls a while back and even Italy was still 60/40 in favour of remaining. Even your pal Le Pen has dropped quitting the Euro from their manifesto. Nobody says that other countries are all totally delighted with the EU but none of them will leave it.

 

This thread is about these wonderful trade deals we are going to get though and I will bet my house that nobody will come back with anything concrete that is better than what we have now by a country mile. That map shows it all. Its just a pity it wasnt stuck on the side of a big red bus in 2016.

 

You said it wasn't a "meaningful figure" when Rich Found you out on it ... Regarding the polls you still believe in telling you what you want to hear I think your the only person in the world who still believes in em ... Yet again we've just had local elections that the polls suggested were going to finish the Tories off ??? ... I think your mad and blind to whats happening in other Euro countries even Germany and you need to read up on Le Pens views on the EU and the Euro ... As for deals well like you keep saying we haven't left yet and none of us I believe know anyone who works for our Government trade deal team so just how the hell you me or anyone is meant to know whats going on behind the scenes is beyond me ... Remember also new trade deals were only part of the reason for voting to leave

 

Ignoring the other tosh in your post, they were a pretty important one but clearly another Brexit lie as there is nowhere to go and nothing to flog. Another Brexit myth just like the £350m for the NHS, immigration, taking back control of our laws, sovereignty etc etc. We were told we would prosper and soar ahead after Brexit. A complete load of lies. The only people soaring ahead will be the tax dodging super rich Brexiteers. The rest of us are fooked.

 

Stuff going on behind the scenes? (lol) What Foxy negotiating with the World? We dont even have any negotiators, Boris just flits around the world offending everyone and getting laughed at. Fox couldnt negotiate his way out of a wet paper bag and Davis. Oh FFS! If you think there is some army of super cool "Suits" type characters quietly working to save the day in the background you really are living in cloud cuckoo land.

 

Trade deals and the myth of trade Utopia outside of the EU are just that, a myth. Another Brexit con job.

 

Well I know who I'd prefer to take my chances with and believe and it certainly aint a fella who tells us a Labour Party with a monkey in charge will be in Government before Brexit in 308 days and also tells us he'd rather starve to death than do a deal with POTUS Trump , a man he can tell hates women just by looking at him because he's met those types before but yet he would probably not bat an eyelid at Turkey ever joining the EU ... If anti-EU feelings are tosh as you describe it then that kind of sums up your EU attitude perfectly and regarding Foxy and Boris and wet paper bag Davis if you let me into what you know about any negotiations that have taken place already then that would be good

 

What negotiations and with who? I dont think there have been any. A few diplomatic visits to one or two countries like India who from memory said they were not in a hurry to do a deal and if they did they want free movement of people for their citizens. The Brexit team are too busy running around panicking and trying to fit square pegs in round holes to even think about setting up super duper trade deals. There wont be any and if there are they will be crap compared to what we currently have.

 

I dont want to deal with Trump for a variety of reasons. Firstly he is protectionist just like Brexiteers are and any deal with him will be massively in the USA's favour, secondly their lower standards will knock off kilter us maintaining standards with our biggest trading partner, the EU at a time where it seems we are clambering like mad to maintain them because we know we cant afford to walk away and thirdly because Trump is volatile. We could spend years working and negotiating towards something with him and he will just decide to get up one morning and tear it all up on Twitter because someone in Ingerlaaandshire called him a Twaat on Twitter.

 

Turkey joining the EU? Not in my lifetime I bet. Fine if they up their game and jump through a lot of hoops which so far they have no chance of doing. Of course this is one of the blatant lies that the Vote Leave campaign trotted out that Turkey were imminently joining the EU and 50 million Turks were heading to the UK.

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Barryd999 - 2018-05-25 9:06 AM

 

antony1969 - 2018-05-24 10:26 AM

 

Barryd999 - 2018-05-24 7:53 AM

 

antony1969 - 2018-05-24 6:51 AM

 

Barryd999 - 2018-05-23 10:01 PM

 

I said it wasnt a really meaningful figure, it could actually be a lot worse! Its undeniable that we are already worse off because of Brexit but I think it was a mistake to try and put a figure on it. Carney's predictions of a recession here are probably just delayed due to the world economy boom post Brexit vote but its coming, just not as quick as he predicted.

 

You can say what you like about those other countries Antony but none of them are even close to voting out of the EU. I posted figures from opinion polls a while back and even Italy was still 60/40 in favour of remaining. Even your pal Le Pen has dropped quitting the Euro from their manifesto. Nobody says that other countries are all totally delighted with the EU but none of them will leave it.

 

This thread is about these wonderful trade deals we are going to get though and I will bet my house that nobody will come back with anything concrete that is better than what we have now by a country mile. That map shows it all. Its just a pity it wasnt stuck on the side of a big red bus in 2016.

 

You said it wasn't a "meaningful figure" when Rich Found you out on it ... Regarding the polls you still believe in telling you what you want to hear I think your the only person in the world who still believes in em ... Yet again we've just had local elections that the polls suggested were going to finish the Tories off ??? ... I think your mad and blind to whats happening in other Euro countries even Germany and you need to read up on Le Pens views on the EU and the Euro ... As for deals well like you keep saying we haven't left yet and none of us I believe know anyone who works for our Government trade deal team so just how the hell you me or anyone is meant to know whats going on behind the scenes is beyond me ... Remember also new trade deals were only part of the reason for voting to leave

 

Ignoring the other tosh in your post, they were a pretty important one but clearly another Brexit lie as there is nowhere to go and nothing to flog. Another Brexit myth just like the £350m for the NHS, immigration, taking back control of our laws, sovereignty etc etc. We were told we would prosper and soar ahead after Brexit. A complete load of lies. The only people soaring ahead will be the tax dodging super rich Brexiteers. The rest of us are fooked.

 

Stuff going on behind the scenes? (lol) What Foxy negotiating with the World? We dont even have any negotiators, Boris just flits around the world offending everyone and getting laughed at. Fox couldnt negotiate his way out of a wet paper bag and Davis. Oh FFS! If you think there is some army of super cool "Suits" type characters quietly working to save the day in the background you really are living in cloud cuckoo land.

 

Trade deals and the myth of trade Utopia outside of the EU are just that, a myth. Another Brexit con job.

 

Well I know who I'd prefer to take my chances with and believe and it certainly aint a fella who tells us a Labour Party with a monkey in charge will be in Government before Brexit in 308 days and also tells us he'd rather starve to death than do a deal with POTUS Trump , a man he can tell hates women just by looking at him because he's met those types before but yet he would probably not bat an eyelid at Turkey ever joining the EU ... If anti-EU feelings are tosh as you describe it then that kind of sums up your EU attitude perfectly and regarding Foxy and Boris and wet paper bag Davis if you let me into what you know about any negotiations that have taken place already then that would be good

 

What negotiations and with who? I dont think there have been any. A few diplomatic visits to one or two countries like India who from memory said they were not in a hurry to do a deal and if they did they want free movement of people for their citizens. The Brexit team are too busy running around panicking and trying to fit square pegs in round holes to even think about setting up super duper trade deals. There wont be any and if there are they will be crap compared to what we currently have.

 

I dont want to deal with Trump for a variety of reasons. Firstly he is protectionist just like Brexiteers are and any deal with him will be massively in the USA's favour, secondly their lower standards will knock off kilter us maintaining standards with our biggest trading partner, the EU at a time where it seems we are clambering like mad to maintain them because we know we cant afford to walk away and thirdly because Trump is volatile. We could spend years working and negotiating towards something with him and he will just decide to get up one morning and tear it all up on Twitter because someone in Ingerlaaandshire called him a Twaat on Twitter.

 

Turkey joining the EU? Not in my lifetime I bet. Fine if they up their game and jump through a lot of hoops which so far they have no chance of doing. Of course this is one of the blatant lies that the Vote Leave campaign trotted out that Turkey were imminently joining the EU and 50 million Turks were heading to the UK.

 

Exactly what negotiations ??? ... That's what I'm asking you in your position of know all ... How do you know what's happening behind the scenes exactly with regards to talks and discussions ??? Please educate me with your superior inside info

You don't want to deal with Trump because he's Trump so stop lying it's as simple as that and your pure hatred for him ... If it was back of the queue Obama trading us the same stuff you'd have no issue so less waffle it's puerly your Trump Derangement Syndrome

As for Turkey joining or not joining ... Again how do you know ??? ... Just like you know others won't leave I suppose ... If others leave or don't play ball like Italy are threatening to do then there's guna be a great big black hole to fill which someone like Turkey might be welcomed to fill

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antony1969 - 2018-05-25 9:28 AM....................................As for Turkey joining or not joining ... Again how do you know ??? ... Just like you know others won't leave I suppose ... If others leave or don't play ball like Italy are threatening to do then there's guna be a great big black hole to fill which someone like Turkey might be welcomed to fill

Just for Antony, this is from the Telegraph, 23 June 2016.

 

"Is Turkey going to join the European Union? Yes, it is, if you take our leaders' pronouncements at face value.

 

It is candidate country under the EU's enlargement strategy. Accession has been a mainstay of British foreign policy, and David Cameron has promised to pave the "road from Ankara to Brussels".

 

Next week, leaders are set to open a new accession chapter, covering financial and budgetary reform, while Dimitris Avramopoulos, the migration Commissioner, speaks of opening the door to the “European family.”

 

But is Turkey actually going to join the European Union? Of course not.

 

It has completed just one accession chapter out of 35 since applying for EEC membership in 1987, and David Cameron has claimed it will take until the year 3000. Britain, and all 27 other members, can deploy the veto on accession, and on both the opening and closing of each of the chapters.

 

Voters are right to be confused. And their confusion is not born of an ignorance of “the facts about Europe”, but of the unspoken rules of a vast and long-running parlour game.

 

EU enlargement was once a noble and straightforward affair. Led by British administrations, it allowed our friends in Poland, Latvia and Hungary to emerge from dictatorship, gallop through the convergence criteria (liberalising markets, ensuring free elections and judiciaries and so on) and declare their future as free and independent states rather than hobble on as satellites of Moscow.

 

That process has ground to a halt, the current Commission ruling out any new accessions until the end of its mandate in 2019, citing the need for consolidation.

 

Instead, enlargement becomes a tool for placing Europe’s neighbours in a holding orbit, with lukewarm intention of pulling them in.

 

In the Balkans - Serbia, Montenegro, Macedonia and Albania – this means bolstering the hand of reformist leaders who can promise to bring voters closer to Europe, and disincentivising authoritarianism and the sort of behaviour that would reignite ethnic divisions.

 

But the EU’s progress report reveals that, to varying degrees, progress towards European norms is stagnant or sluggish: the rule of law faces “major challenges”, judiciaries are politicised, organised crime and corruption rampant. In some areas, reforms are “backsliding”, despite billions in assistance funds.

 

The broader strategic imperative is spelled out: “If the prospect of moving forward on the road to the EU is seen as real and credible, the risk of countries turning away from the EU will be mitigated.”

 

Britain's debate is causing alarm. "My biggest fear is that the Western Balkans will go below the radar, whatever happens in the UK," said Tanja Miscevic, Serbia's lead negotiator.

 

Some, including senior Brits, think an all-or-nothing model that obliges states such as Albania to ready themselves for Euro membership is farcical, and that a new associate member status is required.

 

Then there’s Turkey. Cameron wanted to tie a vast, largely Muslim NATO member on the doorstep of the Middle East to Europe, but there was little question of membership five years ago, let alone after Erdogan unleashed a wave of repression against journalists and academics.

 

Accession talks with Turkey were "re-energised" as a reward for halting the migrant crisis.

The "re-energising" of moribund accession talks this month was a low-cost bribe handed to Erdogan to wave at his voters, in exchange for it halting the flow of migrants over the Mediterranean.

 

This is the diplomacy of Magritte: Ceci n'est pas un pipe. Everyone in Brussels knows it is a charade, as did everyone in Ankara. (There were shades of Captain Renault as Ilnur Cevik, Erdogan’s chief adviser, told Newsnight that he was “really, really flabbergasted” that he had been “deceived” by Cameron, who in recent weeks has disowned Turkey).

 

Everyone, that is, apart from European voters. And if Britons decide today that they do not consent to playing along, it will be a major diplomatic catastrophe that risks at the minimum the fragile migrant deal, and could potentially trigger a dangerous unravelling of Europe’s southern neighbourhood. But it will also be predictable, and leaders will only have themselves to blame."

 

How could he possibly reject the word of the Telegraph as being unreliable? :-D

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Guest pelmetman

God works in mysterious ways B-) ..........

 

308 days to go and he's preventing me from reading this Remoaner crap for most of the day :D ........

 

 

 

 

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