Electric hook up in France

[Lee1st]

So,

Will I need a new hook up lead for French campsites as the polarity is reversed? If so is this always or sometimes? Can these be bought here (UK)?

S'all so confusing when you're new 8-)

Cheers,

Lee

[Keith T]

Hiya....

no, not a new hook up lead, but you may well be advised to have a couple of adaptors. Many French sites do not have the CEE blue sockets as UK, and often they are the 'old' French style, (2-pin and earth) and more often wired 'wrongly'. We take the standard lead, then two short extensions with the French plug connection, one of which is 'cross-wired', and clearly marked of course. We also have a plug-in polarity tester.

It's not unkown for some of the newer CEE type to be cross wired, so first thing we do on hooking up there is to check polarity, whatever type of socket we find on site. Also, don't be folled by expecting one socket to be wired the same as an adjoining one - they're not always!

[Brian Kirby]

Lee

Do a forum search for reversed polarity (or just *polarity).  You'll be buried in info!

You will need a means of testing polarity, to know whether it is reversed.  You will need a European type two pin adapter, usually available from any caravan/motorhome dealership.

You could install a polarity reversal switch, manual or automatic.  Have a look at www.pole-to-pole-electronics.co.uk (no connection).

The best thing about these is that they warn you if there is no earth, and that really is dangerous!  If you get this condition, try alternative sockets on the site pillar, and also try different pillars. 

It would be very unusual for all sockets on a site to be defective.  If they are don't connect and, if you've paid for the connection, report the fault and ask for your hook up money back!

Hope this helps.

[Guest Frank Wilkinson]

Lee1st - 2007-01-26 5:08 PM So, Will I need a new hook up lead for French campsites as the polarity is reversed? If so is this always or sometimes? Can these be bought here (UK)? S'all so confusing when you're new 8-) Cheers, Lee

The first thing to worry about is the plug! Some French campsites still use the two-pin plug system. You can buy an adapter which converts your normal plug to a two-pin one, from most caravan shops.

You can also buy a reverse polarity indicator from the same shops. Not all French sites are reverse polarity though.

My main electricity fusebox actually tells me if the polarity is reversed. It has a red warning light. You should check yours first before buying a special indicator.

You should only do what I'm now going to suggest, if you are confident that you can rewire the plugs. It's any easy thing to do but you must take care.

If you need to correct for reverse polarity the cheapest way, so I've been told, is to make a short length of cable, with the polarity reversed, which goes at the 'van end of the connection, not at the supply end. This way you only need one and not one for each different kind of supply plug.

I bought a male and a female mains plug. I chopped a couple of feet off the 'van end of my mains cable. I then attached the new 'van plug, correctly wired to the end of the remaining long lead. My mains lead was then back to normal.

I then had a very short cable with the 'van plug attached. At the other end of this I wired the other plug that I'd bought but reversed the live and neutral. When the polarity is reversed, this will then correct it, by reversing it back, if you see what I mean.

Finally, you can have a reverse polarity switch fitted into your 'van. These are about £65 I think but if, when you plug in, it informs you that the polarity is reversed, you simply throw a switch on the unit to correct the polarity.

Edited to say that, while I was typing, this two more people popped in ahead of me, hence any duplication.

[Roy]

Hi Lee,

Not only France but other European sites are notorious for having polarity reversed.   Some connections are reversed, some are not, even on the same bollard.  First of all you need a tester plug which you can obtain from caravan accessory outlets.  This simple 3 pin plug shows a variety of possible faults, of which reversed polarity is the most common.  Originally French sockets needed a two pin plug, and many still do, so the next thing you need is a short 2 pin connector with the polarity reversed, again obtainable from the usual sources, or you could make your own up.  However, despite the fact that many sites now have the modern blue connector same as those we use here, reversed polarity is still a problem and therefore you need to be equipped with another  short 'blue' adaptor suitably reversed.   Make sure that you mark the 'reversed' connectors clearly.    Some vans already have a polarity switch fitted and indeed it is possible to have such a switch fitted  (Dave Newell would be able to advise you on this).   Alternatively you could swap your plugs over at the time (bit of a bind) or as some people think, just ignore the whole thing.    If you do a search of the forum for 'reversed polarity' you will find lots of discussion on this very subject.

I am sure that somebody else will soon be posting information.

Good luck,

Roy

  

[Clive]

If you have a modern motorhome it will be equipped with an earth leakage current detecting main circuit breaker. These breakers do this by accurately comparing the current flowing in the NEUTRAL wire with that flowing in the LIVE wire. If these currents are not almost identical (because some has flowed elswehere - like via earth back to the transformer) then the trip will operate disconnecting both LIVE and NEUTRAL connections.

 

If you have an appliance with an earth leakage fault and the Mains hookup is connected correctly then the earth leakage trip will operate when you switch on that appliances ON/OFF switch.

 

If the mains hookup is connected with reverse polarity and you have an appliance with an earth leakage fault then the trip will operate as soon as you connect your hookup irrespective of the appliances ON/OFF switch.

 

If you have an OVERLOAD situation then the circuit breaker supplying the circuit which has the overload will open irrespective of supply polarity. If this overload is because of an earth fault then the earth leakage trip will operate anyway.

 

So, I would not worry about reverse polarity unduly as faults will get picked up one way or another.

 

 

Mind you its fun in Norway! But that,s another story or three!

 

[Lee1st]

Thanks all for the comprehensive replies!

It sounds like, to be prepared for most eventualities for hookup in France, that I need to take the following adapters for my normal mains lead:

1. Conventional blue plug with reversed polarity.

2. French two pin, normal polarity

3. French two pin, reversed polarity

Is that the case?

 

Clive, mine is a relatively modern m/home ('05 Geist Phantom on Mercedes Sprinter 316CDI). With that in mind, are you saying that if I hookup to anything other than acceptable to my mains lead plus adaptors, all that will happen is that a trip will go on my motorhome? Much like the trips on a domestic electrical consumer unit?

Thanks again for all the input guys, it really is most helpful for a newby,

Lee

[Ralph]

Clive's post seems to confirm what I've thought which is that all this French reverse polarity thing is a nonsense.

If reverse polarity is such a problem why don't we see all the silly foreigners having problems? I have a French van, do I assume that it's had some sort of safety device removed for the UK market that makes it OK for the French? My daughter lived in France and all the sockets in her house were different. (Ok technically that's impossible unless she had just 2 sockets but you know what I mean...)

I've seen it said that if you have reversed polarity then the switch is in the neutral, not the live. Well I don't see much chance of me sticking my fingers in the kettle innards without pulling out the plug anyway. And incidentally I bought the kettle in France, although I expect it was made in Taiwan.

So I carry a French adaptor and a tester just for peace of mind. But I don't worry if the polarity is wrong.

 

 

[Dave Newell]

Well, as has been stated before, ad infinitum, having the live and neutral wires crossed over does not in itself constitute a hazardous condition. There is a slight possibility of danger if an appliance develops a fault where the neutral becomes connected to a piece of metal that is exposed, the casing of a toaster for example.

 

A very real danger however is the lack of earth connection on some hookup points. I've never personally experienced this but then I only travel in UK (at present) and I rarely use hookups. A good and reasonably priced solution is that described in this months MMM on page 21 by Dave Castle. This polarity changeover switch will not only warn you of crossed live and neutral connections and allow you to correct this by simply flicking a switch but it also warns of other faults such as no earth connection.

 

For just £35 it seems a good idea to me.

 

D.

[Guest Frank Wilkinson]

Lee1st - 2007-01-27 8:51 AM Thanks all for the comprehensive replies! It sounds like, to be prepared for most eventualities for hookup in France, that I need to take the following adapters for my normal mains lead: 1. Conventional blue plug with reversed polarity. 2. French two pin, normal polarity 3. French two pin, reversed polarity Is that the case?

No it isn't. If you read my post carefully, you will see that I advocate placing a short reversed-polarity lead at the 'van end of the mains lead. Doing it this way means that you need only one reversed-polarity lead. This means that you only need buy one two-pin French plug adaptor and not two.

My reading of all this tells me that most people will never even know that their polarity is reversed and will suffer no ill-effects as a result. However, as Dave Newell points out above, there is a slight chance of danger occurring in a tiny number of situations. For the price of two plugs, as I advocated in my earlier post, why take the chance?

Finally, assuming that you did buy two French two-pin adaptors, they would look identical and you would need some method of labelling them so that you don't forget which is which. My 'van-end method also eliminates this problem.

[Brian Kirby]

Lee1st - 2007-01-27 8:51 AM Thanks all for the comprehensive replies! It sounds like, to be prepared for most eventualities for hookup in France, that I need to take the following adapters for my normal mains lead: 1. Conventional blue plug with reversed polarity. 2. French two pin, normal polarity 3. French two pin, reversed polarity Is that the case? Clive, mine is a relatively modern m/home ('05 Geist Phantom on Mercedes Sprinter 316CDI). With that in mind, are you saying that if I hookup to anything other than acceptable to my mains lead plus adaptors, all that will happen is that a trip will go on my motorhome? Much like the trips on a domestic electrical consumer unit? Thanks again for all the input guys, it really is most helpful for a newby, Lee

Sorry Lee, but not quite.  Install the switch and you won't need any extra bits of lead.  However, if you prefer the bits of lead, do as Frank says and make up the polarity reverser to go on the 'van end of the hook up. 

The additional reason for this, that he didn't mention, is that the blue, CEE, connecting sockets, can also be reverse wired on European sites.

Correct polarity is not that important in Europe because they double pole switch more or less everything and so eliminate the potential problems.  It's just us Brits with our pennypinching ways that use single pole switches!

[Lee1st]

OK then,

Thanks again people,

Seems likely I'll either have, or be able to get withing fairly short order, a functioning system when I arrive at my destination. Then I'll have to get these points clarified over a glass, or three, of wine (always useful for clarifying points I find).

My main fear was that I'd turn up onsite and not be able to hookup at all, didn't realise I could utilise reversed polarity hookup with the caveat that there'd be a raising of electrical risk.

Thanks again, very useful to me,

Lee

[Clive]

Our van is 97 vintage, it has a double pole unbalance current detecting type earth leakage circuit breaker fitted as new by Autotrail. I carry an adapter for Old French camp sites which I fit if required at the hookup point in a dry environment. I carry nothing to reverse the supply polarity.

 

You must make up your own mind having digested the data!

 

Take care

 

C.

 

 

 

[Ray]

The other useful lead is a short one with a blue socket on one end and a standard 13amp plug at the other for plugging in at home or when visting friends.

[Brian Kirby]

Lee1st - 2007-01-27 8:51 AM Thanks all for the comprehensive replies! ......................Clive, mine is a relatively modern m/home ('05 Geist Phantom on Mercedes Sprinter 316CDI). With that in mind, are you saying that if I hookup to anything other than acceptable to my mains lead plus adaptors, all that will happen is that a trip will go on my motorhome? Much like the trips on a domestic electrical consumer unit? Thanks again for all the input guys, it really is most helpful for a newby, Lee

Lee

Just in case it isn't all quite clear, and so you don't worry: as Clive says, you should have the RCD type mains switch in your van.  It should look, and perform, just the same as your domestic one at home, with a test button. 

You'll need some means to test polarity of the supply.  So, get a W4, or similar, tester plug from your nearest camping accessory shop.

If you can, plug the van into your mains at home, switch the mains unit on (ideally it should be left off when travelling, so that you can connect to the site supply pillar on arrival with nothing "live" inside the van) and press the test button.  (With some switches, the switch toggle will only go to a mid point under test.  With these, you have to push the toggle (usually) down until it clicks into the full "Off" position before you can lift it back into the "On" position.  Check your handbook on this.)  It should immediately fly off.  (If it doesn't, disconnect from the mains and check all the hook up wiring, because sometimes they are not properly connected at both ends.  Then plug the polarity tester into the socket you're feeding the van from and see what it says.  If the socket is OK, and the hook up cable looks OK, re-connect the van.)

Next, with the mains connected and live and the mains switch "On", insert the polarity tester into a handy socket and (if a switched socket) switch it on.  The tester should confirm correct polarity and earth present.  (If the RCD switch didn't operate on test, and you didn't find anything wrong in the wiring, it will probably tell you there is no earth connection.  If this happens, unless you know exactly what you're doing, go back to the motorhome supplier under warranty or, if out of warranty, get an electrician to investigate.)

To answer your question about what will happen on site with the RCD main switch in your van, assuming the above tests are OK, or any problems have been fixed, the RCD in your van will only operate if there is a fault actually in your van (or in something you have connected in your van).  I.e. the fault must be "downstream" from your on board RCD for it to operate.

It will not, therefore, respond to faults in the site supply.  So, if the site supply, or your hook up cable, is at fault, it will be a fuse/circuit breaker/RCD somewhere in the site installation that will operate.  (These are often in the supply pillar and can usually be heard operating.) 

You should connect the van end of the hook up first, then the pillar end, and then switch on in the van.  That is why the polarity reversing switch unit is slightly preferable to the plug in tester.  It is wired between the hook up socket in the side of your van and the RCD mains switch, so that polarity is corrected before the current gets to the van's consumer unit.  With one of these installed you can see if the polarity is correct, and the earth present, before you liven the circuits within the van, which is the safest approach overall.

Hope this helps

[Lee1st]

Brian, what can I say... superb!

I'll run through the tests and see what occurs. I do have one of the little plug in polarity testers.

Thanks all for going to such lengths to help on this, there is light through the mist and I feel I now need to go through the process in order to clarify thing further.

Appreciatively,

Lee

[Ralph]

Don't worry too much Lee and have a great holiday. It's worth a bitt of hassle as France is a great place for a camping car.

 

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

Lee1st - 2007-01-28 9:43 AM Brian, what can I say... superb! I'll run through the tests and see what occurs. I do have one of the little plug in polarity testers. Thanks all for going to such lengths to help on this, there is light through the mist and I feel I now need to go through the process in order to clarify thing further. Appreciatively, Lee

Lee

You're welcome.  What I set out is the counsil of perfection.

Just remember, as Clive says, the risks are all very low, and a bit theoretical, so don't let visions of disaster cloud your trips.  Thousands of Brits travel Europe with motorhomes and caravans in blissful ignorance of polarity differences and, so far as I know, they all return without being electrocuted or setting fire to their 'vans!

The most important things, by far, are to check the that RCD trip on the main switch in your van is there and working, and to be sure you have an earth connection whenever you hook up.  Polarity comes way below that as a safety hazard.