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Court of Appeal News for Dave Pelmet at last


Violet1956

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Dave, there is a news report in my paper today in which three of Shabir Ahmed's mates lost their appeal against the decision to deprive them of their citizenship in the Court of Appeal yesterday. Adil Khan, Abdul Aziz and Qari Abdul only feature in the report but Shabir Ahmed was one of the original four who had their appeals in the lower courts dismissed. As the full judgement from yesterday doesn't seem to be available online yet I can't see why his case wasn't included in the proceedings before the Court of Appeal.

 

Can the Court of Appeal now consider you one of its biggest fans? They also freed Tommy.

 

Veronica

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Tracker - 2018-08-09 11:49 AM

 

Violet1956 - 2018-08-09 11:43 AM

 

Can the Court of Appeal now consider you one of its biggest fans? They also freed Tommy.

 

Veronica

 

Does not mean he is not guilty, just means they failed to prove it properly.

 

Don't upset him Rich I was planning to give him only good news today. ;-)

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Violet1956 - 2018-08-09 11:43 AM

 

Dave, there is a news report in my paper today in which three of Shabir Ahmed's mates lost their appeal against the decision to deprive them of their citizenship in the Court of Appeal yesterday. Adil Khan, Abdul Aziz and Qari Abdul only feature in the report but Shabir Ahmed was one of the original four who had their appeals in the lower courts dismissed. As the full judgement from yesterday doesn't seem to be available online yet I can't see why his case wasn't included in the proceedings before the Court of Appeal.

 

Can the Court of Appeal now consider you one of its biggest fans? They also freed Tommy.

 

Veronica

 

Perhaps........They're still be spending a fortune of taxpayers dosh and months, prolly even years on fighting their appeals against deportation *-) ..........

 

I don't suppose now that they're no longer British citizens their access to legal aid will be curtailed? :-| ............

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You're right to criticise the protracted nature of the proceedings. You may remember the Judge in the Upper Tribunal did this same. The protracted nature of the proceedings looks like something parliament should address in further legislation so that deprivation of citizenship and deportation can be dealt with at the same time.

 

Also you ask a good question about whether legal aid will be available to help them fight deportation. As far as I am aware it is not available to anyone who opposes deportation on "family life" grounds. It remains to be seen what grounds they will argue. The indication given by the observations made by a Judge in the Court of Appeal as reported thus far is that a further appeal based on family life grounds would be hopeless. The Home Office should get their skates on and start the ball rolling pronto.

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pelmetman - 2018-08-09 12:06 PM

spending a fortune of taxpayers dosh ..........

Thats because of what lawyers charge.

Like when the cheapest accommodation is £1,000 a week and they blame the homeless for claiming so much....

They need to address why legal fees and housing costs to much.

But its easier for a weak and cowardly government to blame benefit claimants because they make softer targets than lawyers and landowners. >:-(

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Violet1956 - 2018-08-09 1:45 PM

 

The availability of Legal Aid in all areas of law has been substantially reduced. Even when available the fees payable are so low that many law firms are no longer willing to take on legal aid cases.

 

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/jt201719/jtselect/jtrights/669/66906.htm#_idTextAnchor008

 

Typical of this Government.

Like rather than tackle the housing crisis they just cut housing benefit below the level of rents and let the homeless fend for themselves.

And rather than tackle the cost of legal representation they just deny it to the poor.

And the 'newspapers' can say what they like about poor people because they can't afford to sue. >:-)

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John52 - 2018-08-09 1:59 PM

 

Violet1956 - 2018-08-09 1:45 PM

 

The availability of Legal Aid in all areas of law has been substantially reduced. Even when available the fees payable are so low that many law firms are no longer willing to take on legal aid cases.

 

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/jt201719/jtselect/jtrights/669/66906.htm#_idTextAnchor008

 

Typical of this Government.

Like rather than tackle the housing crisis they just cut housing benefit below the level of rents and let the homeless fend for themselves.

And rather than tackle the cost of legal representation they just deny it to the poor.

And the 'newspapers' can say what they like about poor people because they can't afford to sue. >:-)

 

From my reading of Veronica's link I'd say the poor and criminals have far more chance of accessing legal aid than anyone else :-| ..........

 

 

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Brian Kirby - 2018-08-09 5:37 PM

 

Says in today's Guardian they are to be deported to Pakistan, though not when. I assume when they have completed their prison sentences. Seems fair to me.

 

The problem is that the law as presently drafted appears to require that deprivation of citizenship occurs first because you can't deport British nationals. There is a right of appeal against a decision to deprive someone of citizenship and only when appeal rights have been exhausted on that front can a decision be made to deport someone. The decision to make a deportation order also has rights of appeal so, as Dave has observed, this process could go on for months and months. The upside is that it is cases like these that reveal weaknesses and inadequacies in the system. Parliament needs to address this so that the process by which someone is deemed deserving of the deprivation of citizenship can also be made subject of a deportation decision at the same time.

 

Maybe one good thing comes out of this in the sense that the disgusting men who might otherwise be inclined to such egregious behaviour will understand that they are putting in peril the advantages that have been conferred upon them by the gift that is the right to live in the UK and, as with all benefits,it comes with responsibility.

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pelmetman - 2018-08-09 2:12 PM

 

John52 - 2018-08-09 1:59 PM

 

Violet1956 - 2018-08-09 1:45 PM

 

The availability of Legal Aid in all areas of law has been substantially reduced. Even when available the fees payable are so low that many law firms are no longer willing to take on legal aid cases.

 

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/jt201719/jtselect/jtrights/669/66906.htm#_idTextAnchor008

 

Typical of this Government.

Like rather than tackle the housing crisis they just cut housing benefit below the level of rents and let the homeless fend for themselves.

And rather than tackle the cost of legal representation they just deny it to the poor.

And the 'newspapers' can say what they like about poor people because they can't afford to sue. >:-)

 

From my reading of Veronica's link I'd say the poor and criminals have far more chance of accessing legal aid than anyone else :-| ..........

 

 

You're still calling them 'criminals' when they haven't been convicted.

Of course the poor have more chance of accessing legal aid than those who can afford to pay for their own defence.

Doesn't mean they are going to get it.

So your point is what exactly?

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Guest pelmetman
John52 - 2018-08-09 5:53 PM

 

pelmetman - 2018-08-09 2:12 PM

 

John52 - 2018-08-09 1:59 PM

 

Violet1956 - 2018-08-09 1:45 PM

 

The availability of Legal Aid in all areas of law has been substantially reduced. Even when available the fees payable are so low that many law firms are no longer willing to take on legal aid cases.

 

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/jt201719/jtselect/jtrights/669/66906.htm#_idTextAnchor008

 

Typical of this Government.

Like rather than tackle the housing crisis they just cut housing benefit below the level of rents and let the homeless fend for themselves.

And rather than tackle the cost of legal representation they just deny it to the poor.

And the 'newspapers' can say what they like about poor people because they can't afford to sue. >:-)

 

From my reading of Veronica's link I'd say the poor and criminals have far more chance of accessing legal aid than anyone else :-| ..........

 

 

You're still calling them 'criminals' when they haven't been convicted.

Of course the poor have more chance of accessing legal aid than those who can afford to pay for their own defence.

Doesn't mean they are going to get it.

So your point is what exactly?

 

If your a criminal then you've been convicted *-) ............

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Brian Kirby - 2018-08-09 5:37 PM

 

Says in today's Guardian they are to be deported to Pakistan, though not when. I assume when they have completed their prison sentences. Seems fair to me.

 

"Aziz, Khan and Rauf were given jail sentences of between six and nine years in 2012 but have since been released on licence."

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-45114152

 

They've prolly been out for years :-| .............

 

 

 

 

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pelmetman - 2018-08-09 7:29 PM

 

John52 - 2018-08-09 5:53 PM

 

pelmetman - 2018-08-09 2:12 PM

 

John52 - 2018-08-09 1:59 PM

 

Violet1956 - 2018-08-09 1:45 PM

 

The availability of Legal Aid in all areas of law has been substantially reduced. Even when available the fees payable are so low that many law firms are no longer willing to take on legal aid cases.

 

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/jt201719/jtselect/jtrights/669/66906.htm#_idTextAnchor008

 

Typical of this Government.

Like rather than tackle the housing crisis they just cut housing benefit below the level of rents and let the homeless fend for themselves.

And rather than tackle the cost of legal representation they just deny it to the poor.

And the 'newspapers' can say what they like about poor people because they can't afford to sue. >:-)

 

From my reading of Veronica's link I'd say the poor and criminals have far more chance of accessing legal aid than anyone else :-| ..........

 

 

You're still calling them 'criminals' when they haven't been convicted.

Of course the poor have more chance of accessing legal aid than those who can afford to pay for their own defence.

Doesn't mean they are going to get it.

So your point is what exactly?

 

If your a criminal then you've been convicted *-) ............

 

The world according to John/James/Peter ... Even convicted criminals aren't now criminals and it looks like in his book all criminals are poor ... Lordy

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John52 - 2018-08-10 6:02 AM

 

Is the Mad Hatter saying that anyone who has been convicted of a crime in the past should have no legal aid defence to prevent them being wrongly convicyed of another?

At least that would improve the crime detection rate *-)

 

It might give them an incentive to keep out of trouble >:-) ...........

 

Seeing as you reckon they're desperate to stay out of prison *-) .........

 

 

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Brian Kirby - 2018-08-09 5:37 PM

 

Says in today's Guardian they are to be deported to Pakistan, though not when. I assume when they have completed their prison sentences. Seems fair to me.

Hi Brian,

I don't think it is fair on us to make people serve a prison sentence BEFORE we deport them. Why not just deport them immediately, the prisons are expensive and full already. Is there a gain to us in them serving first?

cheers

derek

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http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2018/1884.html

 

The link above gives you the full judgement of the Court of Appeal. Contrary to Dave's fears they weren't granted legal aid and had no legal representation at the hearing in the Court of Appeal.

 

The judgement gives no clue as to why Shabir Ahmed's case wasn't considered at the same time.

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Violet1956 - 2018-08-14 9:09 PM

 

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2018/1884.html

 

The link above gives you the full judgement of the Court of Appeal. Contrary to Dave's fears they weren't granted legal aid and had no legal representation at the hearing in the Court of Appeal.

 

The judgement gives no clue as to why Shabir Ahmed's case wasn't considered at the same time.

 

Here's a clue ;-) ...........

 

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/prisoner-accused-stamping-inmates-face-13639345

 

Looks like our bet is destined to drag out :-S ...........

 

 

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pelmetman - 2018-08-14 9:24 PM

 

Violet1956 - 2018-08-14 9:09 PM

 

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2018/1884.html

 

The link above gives you the full judgement of the Court of Appeal. Contrary to Dave's fears they weren't granted legal aid and had no legal representation at the hearing in the Court of Appeal.

 

The judgement gives no clue as to why Shabir Ahmed's case wasn't considered at the same time.

 

Here's a clue ;-) ...........

 

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/prisoner-accused-stamping-inmates-face-13639345

 

Looks like our bet is destined to drag out :-S ...........

 

I see he got 12 months added on for that one. He is one vile piece of work. Can't see why it has anything to do with his immigration cases. I wonder whether he's given up on his appeal against the deprivation of citizenship? Anyway it matters not as the Court of Appeal decision in relation to the deprivation of citizenship in respect of his co-defendants means that deportation action can be pursued in his case as well. As you say it is inevitable that it will drag on for some months. :-(
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