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Garmin Updates


Bulletguy

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Where on earth do Garmin source their updates? My 760 Camper has all current updates yet during this tour it sent me down a pothole ridden cart track in Bulgaria which obviously hadn't existed as a road for years....possibly never, then yesterday it failed to recognise an exit off the S5 in Poland which had been closed resulting in a 70ml diversion to get back where i needed to be.

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Mickt - 2018-08-16 11:40 AM

 

Does the new update include new speed limits in France ?

 

It should.

 

I’ve just updated my Garmin sat-nav’s mapping, but I can’t say for sure if the speed-limit revisions have been applied until I drive there in a couple of weeks time.

 

This Garmin webpage refers

 

https://www.garmin.com/fr-FR/blog/mise-a-jour-de-la-cartographie-des-routes-de-france-baisse-de-la-limitation-de-vitesse-a-80-km-h/

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Garmin does not advertise “maps for life” for its sat-navs - its definition of “Lifetime Maps” is as follows:

 

"Lifetime Maps

 

If you purchase a nüMaps Lifetime subscription (sold separately or bundled together with certain GPS models), you will receive map updates when and as such updates are made available on the Garmin website during the useful life of 1 compatible Garmin product or as long as Garmin receives map data from a third party supplier, whichever is shorter. A product’s “useful life” means the period during which the product (a) has sufficient memory capacity and other required technical capabilities to utilize current map data and (b) is capable of operating as intended without major repairs. A product will be deemed to be out of service and its useful life to be ended if no updates have been downloaded for such product for a period of 24 months or more. Unless otherwise stated, the updates you receive under the subscription will be updates to the same geographic area included with your Garmin product when originally purchased. Third party content providers may change. In some instances, your Garmin product might not have sufficient memory remaining for you to load an update to the map data, in which case you will need to either (a) select reduced map data coverage for your updates, or (b) purchase separately a microSD™/SD™ card (if and as applicable to your Garmin product) and load all or a portion of the map data coverage for your updates to the card and insert the card into the microSD/SD card slot contained in your Garmin product. If neither of the measures in (a) or (b) can be used to address your product’s lack of sufficient remaining memory, then Garmin may conclude that the “useful life” of your product has expired. Garmin may terminate your nüMaps Lifetime subscription at any time if you violate any of the terms of this agreement or your subscription. Your nüMaps Lifetime subscription may not be transferred to another Garmin product.”

 

As will be seen, Garmin has the right to consider the “useful life” of a sat-nav to have expired if technical limitations mean that the device can no longer handle the latest updates.

 

I use an iMac computer that was cutting-edge when I bought it in 2010. I had to update its operating system (OS) software when Apple decided to no longer provide security updates and when 3rd-parties (Garmin in my case) revised their applications software such that it would no longer run on the original OS. Since then Apple has released several more OS versions, but I’ve chosen not to update to them because I don’t need their additional features and the more complex the OS the more ‘load’ it’s likely to place on the hardware. I anticipate that there will come a time when the OS I’m running on my iMac will have to be updated to meet my requirements and, when that happens, there’s also a fair chance that my 2010 iMac will be unable to run the new Operating System.

 

With modern electronic equipment the obsolescence risk has to be accepted, and up to four ‘free’ software/mapping updates per annum over four years doesn’t seem too bad to me. It’s not like Garmin has deliberately done something that prevents your sat-nav from functioning as it’s always done - it’s just that you’ll now either have to use the sat-nav without the most up-to-date software/mapping revisions or replace it.

 

Regarding “Lifetime Maps” TomTom is no different to Garmin.

 

https://en.discussions.tomtom.com/map-purchasing-57/clarification-of-the-meaning-of-lifetime-maps-993679

 

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You’ve chosen to use a phrase that differs from the sat-nav’s manufacturer’s own terminology and have interpreted your phrase as meaning that your sat-nav bought 4 years ago should be updateable forever. That would indeed be nice but it’s not a realistic expectation IMO, and it’s not what sat-nav manufacturers say about their “Lifetime maps” feature.

 

This January 2018 TomTom-related link

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/42859546

 

mentions mapping updates no longer being available for certain ‘old’ TomTom sat-navs, so the issue is not just Garmin-related.

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Bulletguy - 2018-08-16 11:16 AMWhere on earth do Garmin source their updates? My 760 Camper has all current updates yet during this tour it sent me down a pothole ridden cart track in Bulgaria which obviously hadn't existed as a road for years....possibly never, then yesterday it failed to recognise an exit off the S5 in Poland which had been closed resulting in a 70ml diversion to get back where i needed to be.

I suspect these particular problems arose because of you were touring away from Western Europe which could agravate the time delay which applies to all satnav updates.  Even the best updates are up to two years behind what has happened on the ground, even in Western Europe, so you will inevitably encounter new roundabouts and by passes from time to time which your satnavdoes not know about.

And the cart track you drove down in Bulgaria may qualify as a road to the Bulgarians so if you go to such countries, you have to live with that sort of thing too!  Satnavs are very good and very useful but they are never perfect, so you have to use your eyes and your brain as you go in order to avoid unsuitable roads, unforseen overhangs and all sorts of things.

It's all part of the fun!
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My 2007 Garmin Nuvi 200 with European mapping is still operational and manages to guide me faithfully around, and has not been updated since 2009. The odd new bit of motorway isn't shown along with roundabouts etc but by and large roads are still in the same place.
I also have a newer Garmin for the motorhome, and even when updated last year we were regularly coming on roundabouts not shown & the odd bit of motorway/bypass. 
I now tend to use a free app on my android which is far more accurate and in my opinion has better mapping than Garmin. 
Oh - and I always plan my route on a paper map before I set off, and I tell the Sat Nag where I want to go - not the other way round. If it disagrees, it gets turned off.
I also turn off the sound, so I am actively involved in checking the route.
Alternatively, I change the language to something like Mandarin or Magyar - hilarious for an hour or so trying to figure out what directions she is giving.
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Another stunner today. In Poland and fortunately a road i'm familiar with.....gps voice command says "take the second exit off the roundabout" BUT the correct exit is the first......and it's even shown on the display as the first!

 

This isn't a new road or section so there shouldn't be any excuse for these errors. This is basic stuff and though i accept gps are not Gods gospel, these kind of errors unacceptable.

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Bulletguy - 2018-08-17 4:57 PM

 

 

Another stunner today. In Poland and fortunately a road i'm familiar with.....gps voice command says "take the second exit off the roundabout" BUT the correct exit is the first......and it's even shown on the display as the first!

 

This isn't a new road or section so there shouldn't be any excuse for these errors. This is basic stuff and though i accept gps are not Gods gospel, these kind of errors unacceptable.

 

I guess that ultimately the choice is yours and if you don't like what's being served up then you can opt out and not buy and use a satnav. Personally, I think that they function brilliantly and am happy to apply the small amount of grey matter and common sense that is required to get the best (and it's very good) out of them.

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Steve928 - 2018-08-17 6:11 PM
Bulletguy - 2018-08-17 4:57 PMAnother stunner today. In Poland and fortunately a road i'm familiar with.....gps voice command says "take the second exit off the roundabout" BUT the correct exit is the first......and it's even shown on the display as the first!This isn't a new road or section so there shouldn't be any excuse for these errors. This is basic stuff and though i accept gps are not Gods gospel, these kind of errors unacceptable.
I guess that ultimately the choice is yours and if you don't like what's being served up then you can opt out and not buy and use a satnav. Personally, I think that they function brilliantly and am happy to apply the small amount of grey matter and common sense that is required to get the best (and it's very good) out of them.


Exactly, well said.
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Steve928 - 2018-08-17 6:11 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2018-08-17 4:57 PM

 

 

Another stunner today. In Poland and fortunately a road i'm familiar with.....gps voice command says "take the second exit off the roundabout" BUT the correct exit is the first......and it's even shown on the display as the first!

 

This isn't a new road or section so there shouldn't be any excuse for these errors. This is basic stuff and though i accept gps are not Gods gospel, these kind of errors unacceptable.

 

I guess that ultimately the choice is yours and if you don't like what's being served up then you can opt out and not buy and use a satnav. Personally, I think that they function brilliantly and am happy to apply the small amount of grey matter and common sense that is required to get the best (and it's very good) out of them.

I think you're missing the point entirely so i'll put it another way.

 

Maps and signposts have been around since the year O dot........ok on that? Right. So you arrive at a T junction and the sign directs you to turn LEFT for your home town. But because you live there you know it's not left at all....it's the right turn, but some clown has put the sign in the wrong way.

 

The 'grey matter' and 'common sense' which needs applying is to the dummies who don't know left from right. The example i gave earlier re. a roundabout in Poland....that isn't a new road or new section, it's been there the past 15 years to my knowledge...probably much longer so giving out the wrong exit on the voice command isn't acceptable. It needs sorting.

 

As i said, this is raw basic stuff which no satnav should be getting wrong. Sorry, but some of these units retail in the hundreds (the 760 was £300) and people deserve better.

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As I’m sure I’ve said before, what you insist on demanding is 100% accuracy from an extraordinarily complex system that (because humans are involved in collecting and processing the data that the system requires to function) must inevitably contain errors.

 

A simple statement - there WILL be errors in a sat-nav's mapping. As Steve928 says above, you either acknowledge this and use a device that just occasionally provides wrong advice, or you do not use a sat-nav.

 

It’s not the sat-nav device that’s 'getting things wrong’. A sat-nav is not a human driver looking through a vehicle’s windscreen and deciding what to do - it’s a electronic device using GPS positioning, processing software and mapping data. It’s the mapping data that will normally be at fault and errors in those data will only be corrected if those errors are recognised.

 

There’s no point you repeatedly bitching on this forum about the errors your Garmin sat-nav has ‘made’. It’s not Garmin’s fault as such and what you ought to be doing is advise Garmin about any errors you’ve encountered during your travels so that the company can pass that information on to the provider of the mapping. Because Garmin recognises that there will be errors/inadequacies in the mapping data, it provides users of its sat-navs with an error-reporting capability.

 

https://support.garmin.com/en-GB/?faq=pJLZBzPen9A7OXw5vlRyu5

 

My Garmin sat-nav’s mapping contained no sign of the (adopted) road that leads to my house. This type of error is mentioned on the webpage linked to above "Device routing off of the road (i.e. roads correct path is missing)” and I reported the fault to Garmin via their Error Report Form. It took quite a while for a correction to be made, but nowadays my Garmin sat-nav no longer suggests that, when leaving/returning to my home, I drive across a field.

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Derek Uzzell - 2018-08-18 7:50 AM

 

As I’m sure I’ve said before, what you insist on demanding is 100% accuracy from an extraordinarily complex system that (because humans are involved in collecting and processing the data that the system requires to function) must inevitably contain errors.

 

A simple statement - there WILL be errors in a sat-nav's mapping. As Steve928 says above, you either acknowledge this and use a device that just occasionally provides wrong advice, or you do not use a sat-nav.

 

It’s not the sat-nav device that’s 'getting things wrong’. A sat-nav is not a human driver looking through a vehicle’s windscreen and deciding what to do - it’s a electronic device using GPS positioning, processing software and mapping data. It’s the mapping data that will normally be at fault and errors in those data will only be corrected if those errors are recognised.

I accept your points Derek apart from "mapping data at fault" because the majority of 'errors' that occur could, or by now should, have been corrected.....not only via 'hard mapping' but also the technological advances made via Google Earth. Hence my initial question as to where Garmin (or any other gps brands) source their updates from? How with all that technological advancement is it possible to get a roundabout exit wrong on a road which has existed unaltered for years long before gps or Google Earth was invented? That was my point and question and i appreciate the link so will contact Garmin (re.'cart track' in Bulgaria) once back in UK.

 

I'd say 95% of the time directions are pretty much spot on, but the 5% failure time can easily result in sending you way off route unless familiar with the area and direction you should be going. Malc is right re. 'hard mapping' and long before gps that's how we travelled and i still keep plenty of maps in my van, but as a single person driving solo gps saves writing routes or stopping and checking.

 

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If you are experiencing a general 5% ‘failure rate’ during your travels, you must be going to very unusual places.

 

I’ve occasionally noted inaccuracies with my Garmin sat-nav, but nothing like 5% - but I don’t drive in darkest Eastern Europe. My sat-nav’s ‘failure rate’ must be negligible, well below 0.01%

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Hi,

 

I have a hard cover street atlas of Surrey, which I bought sometime before I was married (in 1965). The publishers have not sent me ANY updates. And my old school atlas still has lots of the globe painted pink.

 

I reckon it's a ploy, so they can sell us more maps.

 

602

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