Guest pelmetman Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 Barryd999 - 2018-08-29 10:09 AM antony1969 - 2018-08-29 6:58 AM Barryd999 - 2018-08-28 9:55 PM antony1969 - 2018-08-28 6:35 PM Barryd999 - 2018-08-28 5:54 PM W3526602 - 2018-08-27 6:20 PM <<< You cant eat pride or go and work at pride. >>> Hi Barry, But would you want to live without pride ... or worse still, live with shame. So far the EU have not offered a deal that would allow us to save face, assuming we wanted a deal. If we go back, cap in hand, would you expect them to be benevolent? Personally, I would expect them to recieve us joyfully ... while THEY re-negotiate the new terms of our continued membership. As I remember it, the EU refused Cameron's appeal for improved conditions of membership, and the rest is history. I cannot remember the last time somebody told me that they wanted to stay ... apart from on this forum. And only on this forum. Law? The question of the NI Border is a matter of EU law. It's the EU that are arguing over the border, so let them have one ... on their side of the line. We won't be in the EU, so nobody can tell us to have a hard border on our side of the line. Perhaps we could offer a trade deal with the Ro!, persuade them to secede from the EU. Law? The law is was that the EU must negotiate, for two years, with any state that wishes to leave the EU. To my mind, the EU have not negotiated, they have stone-walled. Perhaps Trump had a point when he said the UK should sue the EU? As I understand it, at the end of two years negotiating, the UK will no longer be in the EU. OUR MPs will have to choose between two ... and only two ... options, which are .... TO ACCEPT THE DEAL ON OFFER, or, LEAVE WITH NO DEAL. Ask the bookies which it will be. 602 Its written into UK law that there can be no border in NI not EU law. If your wanting to join the WTO which of course is not as straight forward as we were led to believe they will insist you put up a border (Us not the EU). Who gives a toss about losing face? Oh of course, the Brexiteers which is why they refuse to see the emperors clothes for what they are or admit they were sold a pup. Go cap in hand? We dont need to, just revoke article 50 and its business as usual. If we leave and rejoin of course which is inevitable we will then no doubt lose the rebate, the 1997 opt out for further federalisation and have to join the Euro and Schengen. As for reform the EU have already reformed Free movement rules in February this year. Haven't the UK already said it wont enforce the border which all of a sudden your worried about They will have to if they want to join the WTO. Will they ... Thought we'd been over this before ... A hard border isnt wanted by either side but your sudden concern for the Irish border is noted ... https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/994856/brexit-news-wto-world-trade-organisation-no-deal-irish-border-eu-uk-latest Whoever he is he is talking bollox. I would prefer to believe the actual WTO themselves. The WTO option is dead in the water for all the reasons already also cited recently on here anyway but as regards the border under WTO rules, unless you’re in a free trade bloc like the EU or NAFTA, you have to obey the “most favoured nation” rule. If the UK chooses not to put up a border to inspect and charge tariffs on goods incoming that would mean that the UK is giving the EU (because Ireland is the EU in this) complete open access. So its most favoured nation tariff is zero which is against the rules unless it decides to give zero tariff access to both the EU and every other trading nation. I guess we'll find out who's right in 212 days time >:-) ........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 Well your beloved WTO option is a dead duck for sure and I would tend to believe the Head of the WTO rather than some bloke Ive never heard of or your blind faith Dave based on what was believed two years ago. You pinned your hopes on WTO but its just swapping one club with rules and veto's for another one assuming we could get our own schedules anyway in time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spospe Posted August 29, 2018 Author Share Posted August 29, 2018 You have lost the plot. This poll is about what the result of a referendum would be if held today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 Barryd999 - 2018-08-29 11:22 AM Well your beloved WTO option is a dead duck for sure and I would tend to believe the Head of the WTO rather than some bloke Ive never heard of or your blind faith Dave based on what was believed two years ago. You pinned your hopes on WTO but its just swapping one club with rules and veto's for another one assuming we could get our own schedules anyway in time. So WOT can WTO do about it? ...........Stop Ireland exporting to us? (lol) (lol) (lol) .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 Barryd999 - 2018-08-29 10:09 AM antony1969 - 2018-08-29 6:58 AM Barryd999 - 2018-08-28 9:55 PM antony1969 - 2018-08-28 6:35 PM Barryd999 - 2018-08-28 5:54 PM W3526602 - 2018-08-27 6:20 PM <<< You cant eat pride or go and work at pride. >>> Hi Barry, But would you want to live without pride ... or worse still, live with shame. So far the EU have not offered a deal that would allow us to save face, assuming we wanted a deal. If we go back, cap in hand, would you expect them to be benevolent? Personally, I would expect them to recieve us joyfully ... while THEY re-negotiate the new terms of our continued membership. As I remember it, the EU refused Cameron's appeal for improved conditions of membership, and the rest is history. I cannot remember the last time somebody told me that they wanted to stay ... apart from on this forum. And only on this forum. Law? The question of the NI Border is a matter of EU law. It's the EU that are arguing over the border, so let them have one ... on their side of the line. We won't be in the EU, so nobody can tell us to have a hard border on our side of the line. Perhaps we could offer a trade deal with the Ro!, persuade them to secede from the EU. Law? The law is was that the EU must negotiate, for two years, with any state that wishes to leave the EU. To my mind, the EU have not negotiated, they have stone-walled. Perhaps Trump had a point when he said the UK should sue the EU? As I understand it, at the end of two years negotiating, the UK will no longer be in the EU. OUR MPs will have to choose between two ... and only two ... options, which are .... TO ACCEPT THE DEAL ON OFFER, or, LEAVE WITH NO DEAL. Ask the bookies which it will be. 602 Its written into UK law that there can be no border in NI not EU law. If your wanting to join the WTO which of course is not as straight forward as we were led to believe they will insist you put up a border (Us not the EU). Who gives a toss about losing face? Oh of course, the Brexiteers which is why they refuse to see the emperors clothes for what they are or admit they were sold a pup. Go cap in hand? We dont need to, just revoke article 50 and its business as usual. If we leave and rejoin of course which is inevitable we will then no doubt lose the rebate, the 1997 opt out for further federalisation and have to join the Euro and Schengen. As for reform the EU have already reformed Free movement rules in February this year. Haven't the UK already said it wont enforce the border which all of a sudden your worried about They will have to if they want to join the WTO. Will they ... Thought we'd been over this before ... A hard border isnt wanted by either side but your sudden concern for the Irish border is noted ... https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/994856/brexit-news-wto-world-trade-organisation-no-deal-irish-border-eu-uk-latest Whoever he is he is talking bollox. I would prefer to believe the actual WTO themselves. The WTO option is dead in the water for all the reasons already also cited recently on here anyway but as regards the border under WTO rules, unless you’re in a free trade bloc like the EU or NAFTA, you have to obey the “most favoured nation” rule. If the UK chooses not to put up a border to inspect and charge tariffs on goods incoming that would mean that the UK is giving the EU (because Ireland is the EU in this) complete open access. So its most favoured nation tariff is zero which is against the rules unless it decides to give zero tariff access to both the EU and every other trading nation. First you say if we join WTO then a post later the deals dead in the water ... Which is it ya making me dizzy ... You talk about the head of the WTO but all I see is him being more optimistic about Britain under WTO terms than our own Phillip Hammond ... By the way have you always been concerned about the Irish border ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 antony1969 - 2018-08-29 12:23 PM Barryd999 - 2018-08-29 10:09 AM antony1969 - 2018-08-29 6:58 AM Barryd999 - 2018-08-28 9:55 PM antony1969 - 2018-08-28 6:35 PM Barryd999 - 2018-08-28 5:54 PM W3526602 - 2018-08-27 6:20 PM <<< You cant eat pride or go and work at pride. >>> Hi Barry, But would you want to live without pride ... or worse still, live with shame. So far the EU have not offered a deal that would allow us to save face, assuming we wanted a deal. If we go back, cap in hand, would you expect them to be benevolent? Personally, I would expect them to recieve us joyfully ... while THEY re-negotiate the new terms of our continued membership. As I remember it, the EU refused Cameron's appeal for improved conditions of membership, and the rest is history. I cannot remember the last time somebody told me that they wanted to stay ... apart from on this forum. And only on this forum. Law? The question of the NI Border is a matter of EU law. It's the EU that are arguing over the border, so let them have one ... on their side of the line. We won't be in the EU, so nobody can tell us to have a hard border on our side of the line. Perhaps we could offer a trade deal with the Ro!, persuade them to secede from the EU. Law? The law is was that the EU must negotiate, for two years, with any state that wishes to leave the EU. To my mind, the EU have not negotiated, they have stone-walled. Perhaps Trump had a point when he said the UK should sue the EU? As I understand it, at the end of two years negotiating, the UK will no longer be in the EU. OUR MPs will have to choose between two ... and only two ... options, which are .... TO ACCEPT THE DEAL ON OFFER, or, LEAVE WITH NO DEAL. Ask the bookies which it will be. 602 Its written into UK law that there can be no border in NI not EU law. If your wanting to join the WTO which of course is not as straight forward as we were led to believe they will insist you put up a border (Us not the EU). Who gives a toss about losing face? Oh of course, the Brexiteers which is why they refuse to see the emperors clothes for what they are or admit they were sold a pup. Go cap in hand? We dont need to, just revoke article 50 and its business as usual. If we leave and rejoin of course which is inevitable we will then no doubt lose the rebate, the 1997 opt out for further federalisation and have to join the Euro and Schengen. As for reform the EU have already reformed Free movement rules in February this year. Haven't the UK already said it wont enforce the border which all of a sudden your worried about They will have to if they want to join the WTO. Will they ... Thought we'd been over this before ... A hard border isnt wanted by either side but your sudden concern for the Irish border is noted ... https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/994856/brexit-news-wto-world-trade-organisation-no-deal-irish-border-eu-uk-latest Whoever he is he is talking bollox. I would prefer to believe the actual WTO themselves. The WTO option is dead in the water for all the reasons already also cited recently on here anyway but as regards the border under WTO rules, unless you’re in a free trade bloc like the EU or NAFTA, you have to obey the “most favoured nation” rule. If the UK chooses not to put up a border to inspect and charge tariffs on goods incoming that would mean that the UK is giving the EU (because Ireland is the EU in this) complete open access. So its most favoured nation tariff is zero which is against the rules unless it decides to give zero tariff access to both the EU and every other trading nation. First you say if we join WTO then a post later the deals dead in the water ... Which is it ya making me dizzy ... You talk about the head of the WTO but all I see is him being more optimistic about Britain under WTO terms than our own Phillip Hammond ... By the way have you always been concerned about the Irish border ??? If you want some afternoon reading Antony I suggest you read up on the WTO. I thought you and the other Brexiteers wanted to move away from being in any sort of club with rules and regs and take back control. Ill start you off with what the head of the WTO has to say https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-08-24/wto-warns-u-k-faces-difficult-shift-to-bloc-s-rules-post-brexit Then how about a pro Brexit organisations thoughts? http://leavehq.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=128 But for the real nitty gritty and how we will have to put up borders in NI post Brexit under WTO rules you need to read this. Now I appreciate by this point you will have lost the will to live as did I to be honest but the painful truth is that in order to be informed both we and the pollys need to understand this stuff. https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/politics/eurosceptics-would-quickly-come-to-despise-the-wto That last article explains not only how we must follow the favoured nation rules but that we cannot just let trade through into NI without borders and controls. "We will just Fall back on WTO rules" was the big cop out for Brexiteers two years ago. Not so it would seem. And meanwhile the government has committed to no border in NI. As has been said a thousand times the only way to resolve the NI Border issue is CU and SM membership. We are back to the square pegs in round holes again Im afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 spospe - 2018-08-29 11:28 AM You have lost the plot. This poll is about what the result of a referendum would be if held today. Ten people have voted, its not changed for two days. Debate always follows on from these kind of polls. Happy to go back on topic if anyone has any further input on how a second referendum will pan out. As said. I can only see it going in one direction as more Brexit bad news comes out every day. People are waking up to what it means now as the detail emerges. Having said that clearly some have as you say lost the plot and its Brexit at any cost. Even if it meant selling their own children or having to live in a wheelie bin for the rest of their lives the thought of backing down and accepting its a failure is just too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 Barryd999 - 2018-08-29 2:14 PM antony1969 - 2018-08-29 12:23 PM Barryd999 - 2018-08-29 10:09 AM antony1969 - 2018-08-29 6:58 AM Barryd999 - 2018-08-28 9:55 PM antony1969 - 2018-08-28 6:35 PM Barryd999 - 2018-08-28 5:54 PM W3526602 - 2018-08-27 6:20 PM <<< You cant eat pride or go and work at pride. >>> Hi Barry, But would you want to live without pride ... or worse still, live with shame. So far the EU have not offered a deal that would allow us to save face, assuming we wanted a deal. If we go back, cap in hand, would you expect them to be benevolent? Personally, I would expect them to recieve us joyfully ... while THEY re-negotiate the new terms of our continued membership. As I remember it, the EU refused Cameron's appeal for improved conditions of membership, and the rest is history. I cannot remember the last time somebody told me that they wanted to stay ... apart from on this forum. And only on this forum. Law? The question of the NI Border is a matter of EU law. It's the EU that are arguing over the border, so let them have one ... on their side of the line. We won't be in the EU, so nobody can tell us to have a hard border on our side of the line. Perhaps we could offer a trade deal with the Ro!, persuade them to secede from the EU. Law? The law is was that the EU must negotiate, for two years, with any state that wishes to leave the EU. To my mind, the EU have not negotiated, they have stone-walled. Perhaps Trump had a point when he said the UK should sue the EU? As I understand it, at the end of two years negotiating, the UK will no longer be in the EU. OUR MPs will have to choose between two ... and only two ... options, which are .... TO ACCEPT THE DEAL ON OFFER, or, LEAVE WITH NO DEAL. Ask the bookies which it will be. 602 Its written into UK law that there can be no border in NI not EU law. If your wanting to join the WTO which of course is not as straight forward as we were led to believe they will insist you put up a border (Us not the EU). Who gives a toss about losing face? Oh of course, the Brexiteers which is why they refuse to see the emperors clothes for what they are or admit they were sold a pup. Go cap in hand? We dont need to, just revoke article 50 and its business as usual. If we leave and rejoin of course which is inevitable we will then no doubt lose the rebate, the 1997 opt out for further federalisation and have to join the Euro and Schengen. As for reform the EU have already reformed Free movement rules in February this year. Haven't the UK already said it wont enforce the border which all of a sudden your worried about They will have to if they want to join the WTO. Will they ... Thought we'd been over this before ... A hard border isnt wanted by either side but your sudden concern for the Irish border is noted ... https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/994856/brexit-news-wto-world-trade-organisation-no-deal-irish-border-eu-uk-latest Whoever he is he is talking bollox. I would prefer to believe the actual WTO themselves. The WTO option is dead in the water for all the reasons already also cited recently on here anyway but as regards the border under WTO rules, unless you’re in a free trade bloc like the EU or NAFTA, you have to obey the “most favoured nation” rule. If the UK chooses not to put up a border to inspect and charge tariffs on goods incoming that would mean that the UK is giving the EU (because Ireland is the EU in this) complete open access. So its most favoured nation tariff is zero which is against the rules unless it decides to give zero tariff access to both the EU and every other trading nation. First you say if we join WTO then a post later the deals dead in the water ... Which is it ya making me dizzy ... You talk about the head of the WTO but all I see is him being more optimistic about Britain under WTO terms than our own Phillip Hammond ... By the way have you always been concerned about the Irish border ??? If you want some afternoon reading Antony I suggest you read up on the WTO. I thought you and the other Brexiteers wanted to move away from being in any sort of club with rules and regs and take back control. Ill start you off with what the head of the WTO has to say https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-08-24/wto-warns-u-k-faces-difficult-shift-to-bloc-s-rules-post-brexit Then how about a pro Brexit organisations thoughts? http://leavehq.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=128 But for the real nitty gritty and how we will have to put up borders in NI post Brexit under WTO rules you need to read this. Now I appreciate by this point you will have lost the will to live as did I to be honest but the painful truth is that in order to be informed both we and the pollys need to understand this stuff. https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/politics/eurosceptics-would-quickly-come-to-despise-the-wto That last article explains not only how we must follow the favoured nation rules but that we cannot just let trade through into NI without borders and controls. "We will just Fall back on WTO rules" was the big cop out for Brexiteers two years ago. Not so it would seem. And meanwhile the government has committed to no border in NI. As has been said a thousand times the only way to resolve the NI Border issue is CU and SM membership. We are back to the square pegs in round holes again Im afraid. Barry I started reading your link and lost the will to live ... Once again you hit with the headline but the detail differs ... I've read elsewhere what your link says and that is that WTO trade agreements may not be in place by March which is irrelevant any way according to you as the WTO option is dead in the water ... Didn't bother with the rest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 Barryd999 - 2018-08-29 2:14 PM That last article explains not only how we must follow the favoured nation rules but that we cannot just let trade through into NI without borders and controls. Remind me ;-) .........Which way does the majority of trade go? >:-) ............ Oh yeah.....from the Irish.... to us :D ....... So they could just cart it around to Rotterdam with the rest :-> ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 antony1969 - 2018-08-29 3:22 PM Barryd999 - 2018-08-29 2:14 PM antony1969 - 2018-08-29 12:23 PM Barryd999 - 2018-08-29 10:09 AM antony1969 - 2018-08-29 6:58 AM Barryd999 - 2018-08-28 9:55 PM antony1969 - 2018-08-28 6:35 PM Barryd999 - 2018-08-28 5:54 PM W3526602 - 2018-08-27 6:20 PM <<< You cant eat pride or go and work at pride. >>> Hi Barry, But would you want to live without pride ... or worse still, live with shame. So far the EU have not offered a deal that would allow us to save face, assuming we wanted a deal. If we go back, cap in hand, would you expect them to be benevolent? Personally, I would expect them to recieve us joyfully ... while THEY re-negotiate the new terms of our continued membership. As I remember it, the EU refused Cameron's appeal for improved conditions of membership, and the rest is history. I cannot remember the last time somebody told me that they wanted to stay ... apart from on this forum. And only on this forum. Law? The question of the NI Border is a matter of EU law. It's the EU that are arguing over the border, so let them have one ... on their side of the line. We won't be in the EU, so nobody can tell us to have a hard border on our side of the line. Perhaps we could offer a trade deal with the Ro!, persuade them to secede from the EU. Law? The law is was that the EU must negotiate, for two years, with any state that wishes to leave the EU. To my mind, the EU have not negotiated, they have stone-walled. Perhaps Trump had a point when he said the UK should sue the EU? As I understand it, at the end of two years negotiating, the UK will no longer be in the EU. OUR MPs will have to choose between two ... and only two ... options, which are .... TO ACCEPT THE DEAL ON OFFER, or, LEAVE WITH NO DEAL. Ask the bookies which it will be. 602 Its written into UK law that there can be no border in NI not EU law. If your wanting to join the WTO which of course is not as straight forward as we were led to believe they will insist you put up a border (Us not the EU). Who gives a toss about losing face? Oh of course, the Brexiteers which is why they refuse to see the emperors clothes for what they are or admit they were sold a pup. Go cap in hand? We dont need to, just revoke article 50 and its business as usual. If we leave and rejoin of course which is inevitable we will then no doubt lose the rebate, the 1997 opt out for further federalisation and have to join the Euro and Schengen. As for reform the EU have already reformed Free movement rules in February this year. Haven't the UK already said it wont enforce the border which all of a sudden your worried about They will have to if they want to join the WTO. Will they ... Thought we'd been over this before ... A hard border isnt wanted by either side but your sudden concern for the Irish border is noted ... https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/994856/brexit-news-wto-world-trade-organisation-no-deal-irish-border-eu-uk-latest Whoever he is he is talking bollox. I would prefer to believe the actual WTO themselves. The WTO option is dead in the water for all the reasons already also cited recently on here anyway but as regards the border under WTO rules, unless you’re in a free trade bloc like the EU or NAFTA, you have to obey the “most favoured nation” rule. If the UK chooses not to put up a border to inspect and charge tariffs on goods incoming that would mean that the UK is giving the EU (because Ireland is the EU in this) complete open access. So its most favoured nation tariff is zero which is against the rules unless it decides to give zero tariff access to both the EU and every other trading nation. First you say if we join WTO then a post later the deals dead in the water ... Which is it ya making me dizzy ... You talk about the head of the WTO but all I see is him being more optimistic about Britain under WTO terms than our own Phillip Hammond ... By the way have you always been concerned about the Irish border ??? If you want some afternoon reading Antony I suggest you read up on the WTO. I thought you and the other Brexiteers wanted to move away from being in any sort of club with rules and regs and take back control. Ill start you off with what the head of the WTO has to say https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-08-24/wto-warns-u-k-faces-difficult-shift-to-bloc-s-rules-post-brexit Then how about a pro Brexit organisations thoughts? http://leavehq.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=128 But for the real nitty gritty and how we will have to put up borders in NI post Brexit under WTO rules you need to read this. Now I appreciate by this point you will have lost the will to live as did I to be honest but the painful truth is that in order to be informed both we and the pollys need to understand this stuff. https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/politics/eurosceptics-would-quickly-come-to-despise-the-wto That last article explains not only how we must follow the favoured nation rules but that we cannot just let trade through into NI without borders and controls. "We will just Fall back on WTO rules" was the big cop out for Brexiteers two years ago. Not so it would seem. And meanwhile the government has committed to no border in NI. As has been said a thousand times the only way to resolve the NI Border issue is CU and SM membership. We are back to the square pegs in round holes again Im afraid. Barry I started reading your link and lost the will to live ... Once again you hit with the headline but the detail differs ... I've read elsewhere what your link says and that is that WTO trade agreements may not be in place by March which is irrelevant any way according to you as the WTO option is dead in the water ... Didn't bother with the rest Yes, its incredibly complex and I doubt anyone who isnt a complete Brexit nerd will read it all. I also lost the will to live but in a nutshell we cannot survive on WTO trade alone as the head of the WTO has said and the pro Brexit article points out. No country does. It pretty much means we have to have close alignment and a deal with the EU for WTO to work at all such as the Swiss option which the EU has pretty much ruled out and that took 10 years to set up anyway. The final sentence of the alliance article says this. "One can say, unequivocally, that the UK could not survive as a trading nation by relying on the WTO Option. It would be an unmitigated disaster, and no responsible government should allow it. The option should be rejected." So your going to end up being tied to Europe and under the rules and Vetos of course of the WTO. It seems there is no escape from being part of "Something" and subject to its rules and demands of other nations or blocs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 Barryd999 - 2018-08-29 5:16 PM antony1969 - 2018-08-29 3:22 PM Barryd999 - 2018-08-29 2:14 PM antony1969 - 2018-08-29 12:23 PM Barryd999 - 2018-08-29 10:09 AM antony1969 - 2018-08-29 6:58 AM Barryd999 - 2018-08-28 9:55 PM antony1969 - 2018-08-28 6:35 PM Barryd999 - 2018-08-28 5:54 PM W3526602 - 2018-08-27 6:20 PM <<< You cant eat pride or go and work at pride. >>> Hi Barry, But would you want to live without pride ... or worse still, live with shame. So far the EU have not offered a deal that would allow us to save face, assuming we wanted a deal. If we go back, cap in hand, would you expect them to be benevolent? Personally, I would expect them to recieve us joyfully ... while THEY re-negotiate the new terms of our continued membership. As I remember it, the EU refused Cameron's appeal for improved conditions of membership, and the rest is history. I cannot remember the last time somebody told me that they wanted to stay ... apart from on this forum. And only on this forum. Law? The question of the NI Border is a matter of EU law. It's the EU that are arguing over the border, so let them have one ... on their side of the line. We won't be in the EU, so nobody can tell us to have a hard border on our side of the line. Perhaps we could offer a trade deal with the Ro!, persuade them to secede from the EU. Law? The law is was that the EU must negotiate, for two years, with any state that wishes to leave the EU. To my mind, the EU have not negotiated, they have stone-walled. Perhaps Trump had a point when he said the UK should sue the EU? As I understand it, at the end of two years negotiating, the UK will no longer be in the EU. OUR MPs will have to choose between two ... and only two ... options, which are .... TO ACCEPT THE DEAL ON OFFER, or, LEAVE WITH NO DEAL. Ask the bookies which it will be. 602 Its written into UK law that there can be no border in NI not EU law. If your wanting to join the WTO which of course is not as straight forward as we were led to believe they will insist you put up a border (Us not the EU). Who gives a toss about losing face? Oh of course, the Brexiteers which is why they refuse to see the emperors clothes for what they are or admit they were sold a pup. Go cap in hand? We dont need to, just revoke article 50 and its business as usual. If we leave and rejoin of course which is inevitable we will then no doubt lose the rebate, the 1997 opt out for further federalisation and have to join the Euro and Schengen. As for reform the EU have already reformed Free movement rules in February this year. Haven't the UK already said it wont enforce the border which all of a sudden your worried about They will have to if they want to join the WTO. Will they ... Thought we'd been over this before ... A hard border isnt wanted by either side but your sudden concern for the Irish border is noted ... https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/994856/brexit-news-wto-world-trade-organisation-no-deal-irish-border-eu-uk-latest Whoever he is he is talking bollox. I would prefer to believe the actual WTO themselves. The WTO option is dead in the water for all the reasons already also cited recently on here anyway but as regards the border under WTO rules, unless you’re in a free trade bloc like the EU or NAFTA, you have to obey the “most favoured nation” rule. If the UK chooses not to put up a border to inspect and charge tariffs on goods incoming that would mean that the UK is giving the EU (because Ireland is the EU in this) complete open access. So its most favoured nation tariff is zero which is against the rules unless it decides to give zero tariff access to both the EU and every other trading nation. First you say if we join WTO then a post later the deals dead in the water ... Which is it ya making me dizzy ... You talk about the head of the WTO but all I see is him being more optimistic about Britain under WTO terms than our own Phillip Hammond ... By the way have you always been concerned about the Irish border ??? If you want some afternoon reading Antony I suggest you read up on the WTO. I thought you and the other Brexiteers wanted to move away from being in any sort of club with rules and regs and take back control. Ill start you off with what the head of the WTO has to say https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-08-24/wto-warns-u-k-faces-difficult-shift-to-bloc-s-rules-post-brexit Then how about a pro Brexit organisations thoughts? http://leavehq.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=128 But for the real nitty gritty and how we will have to put up borders in NI post Brexit under WTO rules you need to read this. Now I appreciate by this point you will have lost the will to live as did I to be honest but the painful truth is that in order to be informed both we and the pollys need to understand this stuff. https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/politics/eurosceptics-would-quickly-come-to-despise-the-wto That last article explains not only how we must follow the favoured nation rules but that we cannot just let trade through into NI without borders and controls. "We will just Fall back on WTO rules" was the big cop out for Brexiteers two years ago. Not so it would seem. And meanwhile the government has committed to no border in NI. As has been said a thousand times the only way to resolve the NI Border issue is CU and SM membership. We are back to the square pegs in round holes again Im afraid. Barry I started reading your link and lost the will to live ... Once again you hit with the headline but the detail differs ... I've read elsewhere what your link says and that is that WTO trade agreements may not be in place by March which is irrelevant any way according to you as the WTO option is dead in the water ... Didn't bother with the rest Yes, its incredibly complex and I doubt anyone who isnt a complete Brexit nerd will read it all. I also lost the will to live but in a nutshell we cannot survive on WTO trade alone as the head of the WTO has said and the pro Brexit article points out. No country does. It pretty much means we have to have close alignment and a deal with the EU for WTO to work at all such as the Swiss option which the EU has pretty much ruled out and that took 10 years to set up anyway. The final sentence of the alliance article says this. "One can say, unequivocally, that the UK could not survive as a trading nation by relying on the WTO Option. It would be an unmitigated disaster, and no responsible government should allow it. The option should be rejected." So your going to end up being tied to Europe and under the rules and Vetos of course of the WTO. It seems there is no escape from being part of "Something" and subject to its rules and demands of other nations or blocs. That "Something" we could be subject to will it cost us billions to be part of that "Something" like it does at present ??? ... Regarding WTO youve already said the deals "dead in the water" so its really a non starter ... Your normally spot on with your predictions ... Tories finished and Labour in power with a monkey as leader before Brexit ... Not long to wait Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 antony1969 - 2018-08-29 6:02 PM Barryd999 - 2018-08-29 5:16 PM antony1969 - 2018-08-29 3:22 PM Barryd999 - 2018-08-29 2:14 PM antony1969 - 2018-08-29 12:23 PM Barryd999 - 2018-08-29 10:09 AM antony1969 - 2018-08-29 6:58 AM Barryd999 - 2018-08-28 9:55 PM antony1969 - 2018-08-28 6:35 PM Barryd999 - 2018-08-28 5:54 PM W3526602 - 2018-08-27 6:20 PM <<< You cant eat pride or go and work at pride. >>> Hi Barry, But would you want to live without pride ... or worse still, live with shame. So far the EU have not offered a deal that would allow us to save face, assuming we wanted a deal. If we go back, cap in hand, would you expect them to be benevolent? Personally, I would expect them to recieve us joyfully ... while THEY re-negotiate the new terms of our continued membership. As I remember it, the EU refused Cameron's appeal for improved conditions of membership, and the rest is history. I cannot remember the last time somebody told me that they wanted to stay ... apart from on this forum. And only on this forum. Law? The question of the NI Border is a matter of EU law. It's the EU that are arguing over the border, so let them have one ... on their side of the line. We won't be in the EU, so nobody can tell us to have a hard border on our side of the line. Perhaps we could offer a trade deal with the Ro!, persuade them to secede from the EU. Law? The law is was that the EU must negotiate, for two years, with any state that wishes to leave the EU. To my mind, the EU have not negotiated, they have stone-walled. Perhaps Trump had a point when he said the UK should sue the EU? As I understand it, at the end of two years negotiating, the UK will no longer be in the EU. OUR MPs will have to choose between two ... and only two ... options, which are .... TO ACCEPT THE DEAL ON OFFER, or, LEAVE WITH NO DEAL. Ask the bookies which it will be. 602 Its written into UK law that there can be no border in NI not EU law. If your wanting to join the WTO which of course is not as straight forward as we were led to believe they will insist you put up a border (Us not the EU). Who gives a toss about losing face? Oh of course, the Brexiteers which is why they refuse to see the emperors clothes for what they are or admit they were sold a pup. Go cap in hand? We dont need to, just revoke article 50 and its business as usual. If we leave and rejoin of course which is inevitable we will then no doubt lose the rebate, the 1997 opt out for further federalisation and have to join the Euro and Schengen. As for reform the EU have already reformed Free movement rules in February this year. Haven't the UK already said it wont enforce the border which all of a sudden your worried about They will have to if they want to join the WTO. Will they ... Thought we'd been over this before ... A hard border isnt wanted by either side but your sudden concern for the Irish border is noted ... https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/994856/brexit-news-wto-world-trade-organisation-no-deal-irish-border-eu-uk-latest Whoever he is he is talking bollox. I would prefer to believe the actual WTO themselves. The WTO option is dead in the water for all the reasons already also cited recently on here anyway but as regards the border under WTO rules, unless you’re in a free trade bloc like the EU or NAFTA, you have to obey the “most favoured nation” rule. If the UK chooses not to put up a border to inspect and charge tariffs on goods incoming that would mean that the UK is giving the EU (because Ireland is the EU in this) complete open access. So its most favoured nation tariff is zero which is against the rules unless it decides to give zero tariff access to both the EU and every other trading nation. First you say if we join WTO then a post later the deals dead in the water ... Which is it ya making me dizzy ... You talk about the head of the WTO but all I see is him being more optimistic about Britain under WTO terms than our own Phillip Hammond ... By the way have you always been concerned about the Irish border ??? If you want some afternoon reading Antony I suggest you read up on the WTO. I thought you and the other Brexiteers wanted to move away from being in any sort of club with rules and regs and take back control. Ill start you off with what the head of the WTO has to say https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-08-24/wto-warns-u-k-faces-difficult-shift-to-bloc-s-rules-post-brexit Then how about a pro Brexit organisations thoughts? http://leavehq.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=128 But for the real nitty gritty and how we will have to put up borders in NI post Brexit under WTO rules you need to read this. Now I appreciate by this point you will have lost the will to live as did I to be honest but the painful truth is that in order to be informed both we and the pollys need to understand this stuff. https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/politics/eurosceptics-would-quickly-come-to-despise-the-wto That last article explains not only how we must follow the favoured nation rules but that we cannot just let trade through into NI without borders and controls. "We will just Fall back on WTO rules" was the big cop out for Brexiteers two years ago. Not so it would seem. And meanwhile the government has committed to no border in NI. As has been said a thousand times the only way to resolve the NI Border issue is CU and SM membership. We are back to the square pegs in round holes again Im afraid. Barry I started reading your link and lost the will to live ... Once again you hit with the headline but the detail differs ... I've read elsewhere what your link says and that is that WTO trade agreements may not be in place by March which is irrelevant any way according to you as the WTO option is dead in the water ... Didn't bother with the rest Yes, its incredibly complex and I doubt anyone who isnt a complete Brexit nerd will read it all. I also lost the will to live but in a nutshell we cannot survive on WTO trade alone as the head of the WTO has said and the pro Brexit article points out. No country does. It pretty much means we have to have close alignment and a deal with the EU for WTO to work at all such as the Swiss option which the EU has pretty much ruled out and that took 10 years to set up anyway. The final sentence of the alliance article says this. "One can say, unequivocally, that the UK could not survive as a trading nation by relying on the WTO Option. It would be an unmitigated disaster, and no responsible government should allow it. The option should be rejected." So your going to end up being tied to Europe and under the rules and Vetos of course of the WTO. It seems there is no escape from being part of "Something" and subject to its rules and demands of other nations or blocs. That "Something" we could be subject to will it cost us billions to be part of that "Something" like it does at present ??? ... Regarding WTO youve already said the deals "dead in the water" so its really a non starter ... Your normally spot on with your predictions ... Tories finished and Labour in power with a monkey as leader before Brexit ... Not long to wait When you mean billions do you mean the 1% of GDP or 2% of our total annual spend to be members Antony? Do you think any trade deal or membership of any trade bloc will be free and without rules? WTO is a none starter on its own for sure. The last two are defo still on the cards. Only way out for the Tories I reckon is a second referendum and hope that the pubic unanimously vote one way or the other. Labour are still very much in with a shout when it goes tits up. You can see the anti Labour lot are getting very concerned just by the amount of anti Corbyn bile they are now producing every day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 Barryd999 - 2018-08-29 7:08 PM antony1969 - 2018-08-29 6:02 PM Barryd999 - 2018-08-29 5:16 PM antony1969 - 2018-08-29 3:22 PM Barryd999 - 2018-08-29 2:14 PM antony1969 - 2018-08-29 12:23 PM Barryd999 - 2018-08-29 10:09 AM antony1969 - 2018-08-29 6:58 AM Barryd999 - 2018-08-28 9:55 PM antony1969 - 2018-08-28 6:35 PM Barryd999 - 2018-08-28 5:54 PM W3526602 - 2018-08-27 6:20 PM <<< You cant eat pride or go and work at pride. >>> Hi Barry, But would you want to live without pride ... or worse still, live with shame. So far the EU have not offered a deal that would allow us to save face, assuming we wanted a deal. If we go back, cap in hand, would you expect them to be benevolent? Personally, I would expect them to recieve us joyfully ... while THEY re-negotiate the new terms of our continued membership. As I remember it, the EU refused Cameron's appeal for improved conditions of membership, and the rest is history. I cannot remember the last time somebody told me that they wanted to stay ... apart from on this forum. And only on this forum. Law? The question of the NI Border is a matter of EU law. It's the EU that are arguing over the border, so let them have one ... on their side of the line. We won't be in the EU, so nobody can tell us to have a hard border on our side of the line. Perhaps we could offer a trade deal with the Ro!, persuade them to secede from the EU. Law? The law is was that the EU must negotiate, for two years, with any state that wishes to leave the EU. To my mind, the EU have not negotiated, they have stone-walled. Perhaps Trump had a point when he said the UK should sue the EU? As I understand it, at the end of two years negotiating, the UK will no longer be in the EU. OUR MPs will have to choose between two ... and only two ... options, which are .... TO ACCEPT THE DEAL ON OFFER, or, LEAVE WITH NO DEAL. Ask the bookies which it will be. 602 Its written into UK law that there can be no border in NI not EU law. If your wanting to join the WTO which of course is not as straight forward as we were led to believe they will insist you put up a border (Us not the EU). Who gives a toss about losing face? Oh of course, the Brexiteers which is why they refuse to see the emperors clothes for what they are or admit they were sold a pup. Go cap in hand? We dont need to, just revoke article 50 and its business as usual. If we leave and rejoin of course which is inevitable we will then no doubt lose the rebate, the 1997 opt out for further federalisation and have to join the Euro and Schengen. As for reform the EU have already reformed Free movement rules in February this year. Haven't the UK already said it wont enforce the border which all of a sudden your worried about They will have to if they want to join the WTO. Will they ... Thought we'd been over this before ... A hard border isnt wanted by either side but your sudden concern for the Irish border is noted ... https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/994856/brexit-news-wto-world-trade-organisation-no-deal-irish-border-eu-uk-latest Whoever he is he is talking bollox. I would prefer to believe the actual WTO themselves. The WTO option is dead in the water for all the reasons already also cited recently on here anyway but as regards the border under WTO rules, unless you’re in a free trade bloc like the EU or NAFTA, you have to obey the “most favoured nation” rule. If the UK chooses not to put up a border to inspect and charge tariffs on goods incoming that would mean that the UK is giving the EU (because Ireland is the EU in this) complete open access. So its most favoured nation tariff is zero which is against the rules unless it decides to give zero tariff access to both the EU and every other trading nation. First you say if we join WTO then a post later the deals dead in the water ... Which is it ya making me dizzy ... You talk about the head of the WTO but all I see is him being more optimistic about Britain under WTO terms than our own Phillip Hammond ... By the way have you always been concerned about the Irish border ??? If you want some afternoon reading Antony I suggest you read up on the WTO. I thought you and the other Brexiteers wanted to move away from being in any sort of club with rules and regs and take back control. Ill start you off with what the head of the WTO has to say https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-08-24/wto-warns-u-k-faces-difficult-shift-to-bloc-s-rules-post-brexit Then how about a pro Brexit organisations thoughts? http://leavehq.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=128 But for the real nitty gritty and how we will have to put up borders in NI post Brexit under WTO rules you need to read this. Now I appreciate by this point you will have lost the will to live as did I to be honest but the painful truth is that in order to be informed both we and the pollys need to understand this stuff. https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/politics/eurosceptics-would-quickly-come-to-despise-the-wto That last article explains not only how we must follow the favoured nation rules but that we cannot just let trade through into NI without borders and controls. "We will just Fall back on WTO rules" was the big cop out for Brexiteers two years ago. Not so it would seem. And meanwhile the government has committed to no border in NI. As has been said a thousand times the only way to resolve the NI Border issue is CU and SM membership. We are back to the square pegs in round holes again Im afraid. Barry I started reading your link and lost the will to live ... Once again you hit with the headline but the detail differs ... I've read elsewhere what your link says and that is that WTO trade agreements may not be in place by March which is irrelevant any way according to you as the WTO option is dead in the water ... Didn't bother with the rest Yes, its incredibly complex and I doubt anyone who isnt a complete Brexit nerd will read it all. I also lost the will to live but in a nutshell we cannot survive on WTO trade alone as the head of the WTO has said and the pro Brexit article points out. No country does. It pretty much means we have to have close alignment and a deal with the EU for WTO to work at all such as the Swiss option which the EU has pretty much ruled out and that took 10 years to set up anyway. The final sentence of the alliance article says this. "One can say, unequivocally, that the UK could not survive as a trading nation by relying on the WTO Option. It would be an unmitigated disaster, and no responsible government should allow it. The option should be rejected." So your going to end up being tied to Europe and under the rules and Vetos of course of the WTO. It seems there is no escape from being part of "Something" and subject to its rules and demands of other nations or blocs. That "Something" we could be subject to will it cost us billions to be part of that "Something" like it does at present ??? ... Regarding WTO youve already said the deals "dead in the water" so its really a non starter ... Your normally spot on with your predictions ... Tories finished and Labour in power with a monkey as leader before Brexit ... Not long to wait When you mean billions do you mean the 1% of GDP or 2% of our total annual spend to be members Antony? Do you think any trade deal or membership of any trade bloc will be free and without rules? WTO is a none starter on its own for sure. The last two are defo still on the cards. Only way out for the Tories I reckon is a second referendum and hope that the pubic unanimously vote one way or the other. Labour are still very much in with a shout when it goes tits up. You can see the anti Labour lot are getting very concerned just by the amount of anti Corbyn bile they are now producing every day I mean the billions team UK loses in net contributions to a dying club year on year Barry ... Im not aware any trade deal has been reached anywhere else so I couldn't possibly comment on rules or costs till such time that happens unless you can provide our deals info ... Are you now changing the goalposts again and now say the Tories aren't finished as long as this magical 2nd neverendum takes place with a result thats totally different to the 1st ??? ... As for anti-Corbyn bile personally I think its the duty of our MSM to report on his anti-Semitic views ... If by doing so you believe that to be anti-Labour then so be it ... Remember Corbyn isnt just a racist hes anti-EU and always has been Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 antony1969 - 2018-08-29 8:27 PM Barryd999 - 2018-08-29 7:08 PM antony1969 - 2018-08-29 6:02 PM Barryd999 - 2018-08-29 5:16 PM antony1969 - 2018-08-29 3:22 PM Barryd999 - 2018-08-29 2:14 PM antony1969 - 2018-08-29 12:23 PM Barryd999 - 2018-08-29 10:09 AM antony1969 - 2018-08-29 6:58 AM Barryd999 - 2018-08-28 9:55 PM antony1969 - 2018-08-28 6:35 PM Barryd999 - 2018-08-28 5:54 PM W3526602 - 2018-08-27 6:20 PM <<< You cant eat pride or go and work at pride. >>> Hi Barry, But would you want to live without pride ... or worse still, live with shame. So far the EU have not offered a deal that would allow us to save face, assuming we wanted a deal. If we go back, cap in hand, would you expect them to be benevolent? Personally, I would expect them to recieve us joyfully ... while THEY re-negotiate the new terms of our continued membership. As I remember it, the EU refused Cameron's appeal for improved conditions of membership, and the rest is history. I cannot remember the last time somebody told me that they wanted to stay ... apart from on this forum. And only on this forum. Law? The question of the NI Border is a matter of EU law. It's the EU that are arguing over the border, so let them have one ... on their side of the line. We won't be in the EU, so nobody can tell us to have a hard border on our side of the line. Perhaps we could offer a trade deal with the Ro!, persuade them to secede from the EU. Law? The law is was that the EU must negotiate, for two years, with any state that wishes to leave the EU. To my mind, the EU have not negotiated, they have stone-walled. Perhaps Trump had a point when he said the UK should sue the EU? As I understand it, at the end of two years negotiating, the UK will no longer be in the EU. OUR MPs will have to choose between two ... and only two ... options, which are .... TO ACCEPT THE DEAL ON OFFER, or, LEAVE WITH NO DEAL. Ask the bookies which it will be. 602 Its written into UK law that there can be no border in NI not EU law. If your wanting to join the WTO which of course is not as straight forward as we were led to believe they will insist you put up a border (Us not the EU). Who gives a toss about losing face? Oh of course, the Brexiteers which is why they refuse to see the emperors clothes for what they are or admit they were sold a pup. Go cap in hand? We dont need to, just revoke article 50 and its business as usual. If we leave and rejoin of course which is inevitable we will then no doubt lose the rebate, the 1997 opt out for further federalisation and have to join the Euro and Schengen. As for reform the EU have already reformed Free movement rules in February this year. Haven't the UK already said it wont enforce the border which all of a sudden your worried about They will have to if they want to join the WTO. Will they ... Thought we'd been over this before ... A hard border isnt wanted by either side but your sudden concern for the Irish border is noted ... https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/994856/brexit-news-wto-world-trade-organisation-no-deal-irish-border-eu-uk-latest Whoever he is he is talking bollox. I would prefer to believe the actual WTO themselves. The WTO option is dead in the water for all the reasons already also cited recently on here anyway but as regards the border under WTO rules, unless you’re in a free trade bloc like the EU or NAFTA, you have to obey the “most favoured nation” rule. If the UK chooses not to put up a border to inspect and charge tariffs on goods incoming that would mean that the UK is giving the EU (because Ireland is the EU in this) complete open access. So its most favoured nation tariff is zero which is against the rules unless it decides to give zero tariff access to both the EU and every other trading nation. First you say if we join WTO then a post later the deals dead in the water ... Which is it ya making me dizzy ... You talk about the head of the WTO but all I see is him being more optimistic about Britain under WTO terms than our own Phillip Hammond ... By the way have you always been concerned about the Irish border ??? If you want some afternoon reading Antony I suggest you read up on the WTO. I thought you and the other Brexiteers wanted to move away from being in any sort of club with rules and regs and take back control. Ill start you off with what the head of the WTO has to say https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-08-24/wto-warns-u-k-faces-difficult-shift-to-bloc-s-rules-post-brexit Then how about a pro Brexit organisations thoughts? http://leavehq.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=128 But for the real nitty gritty and how we will have to put up borders in NI post Brexit under WTO rules you need to read this. Now I appreciate by this point you will have lost the will to live as did I to be honest but the painful truth is that in order to be informed both we and the pollys need to understand this stuff. https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/politics/eurosceptics-would-quickly-come-to-despise-the-wto That last article explains not only how we must follow the favoured nation rules but that we cannot just let trade through into NI without borders and controls. "We will just Fall back on WTO rules" was the big cop out for Brexiteers two years ago. Not so it would seem. And meanwhile the government has committed to no border in NI. As has been said a thousand times the only way to resolve the NI Border issue is CU and SM membership. We are back to the square pegs in round holes again Im afraid. Barry I started reading your link and lost the will to live ... Once again you hit with the headline but the detail differs ... I've read elsewhere what your link says and that is that WTO trade agreements may not be in place by March which is irrelevant any way according to you as the WTO option is dead in the water ... Didn't bother with the rest Yes, its incredibly complex and I doubt anyone who isnt a complete Brexit nerd will read it all. I also lost the will to live but in a nutshell we cannot survive on WTO trade alone as the head of the WTO has said and the pro Brexit article points out. No country does. It pretty much means we have to have close alignment and a deal with the EU for WTO to work at all such as the Swiss option which the EU has pretty much ruled out and that took 10 years to set up anyway. The final sentence of the alliance article says this. "One can say, unequivocally, that the UK could not survive as a trading nation by relying on the WTO Option. It would be an unmitigated disaster, and no responsible government should allow it. The option should be rejected." So your going to end up being tied to Europe and under the rules and Vetos of course of the WTO. It seems there is no escape from being part of "Something" and subject to its rules and demands of other nations or blocs. That "Something" we could be subject to will it cost us billions to be part of that "Something" like it does at present ??? ... Regarding WTO youve already said the deals "dead in the water" so its really a non starter ... Your normally spot on with your predictions ... Tories finished and Labour in power with a monkey as leader before Brexit ... Not long to wait When you mean billions do you mean the 1% of GDP or 2% of our total annual spend to be members Antony? Do you think any trade deal or membership of any trade bloc will be free and without rules? WTO is a none starter on its own for sure. The last two are defo still on the cards. Only way out for the Tories I reckon is a second referendum and hope that the pubic unanimously vote one way or the other. Labour are still very much in with a shout when it goes tits up. You can see the anti Labour lot are getting very concerned just by the amount of anti Corbyn bile they are now producing every day I mean the billions team UK loses in net contributions to a dying club year on year Barry ... Im not aware any trade deal has been reached anywhere else so I couldn't possibly comment on rules or costs till such time that happens unless you can provide our deals info ... Are you now changing the goalposts again and now say the Tories aren't finished as long as this magical 2nd neverendum takes place with a result thats totally different to the 1st ??? ... As for anti-Corbyn bile personally I think its the duty of our MSM to report on his anti-Semitic views ... If by doing so you believe that to be anti-Labour then so be it ... Remember Corbyn isnt just a racist hes anti-EU and always has been I agree with the last bit, I think he is anti EU but his party isnt and the members are revolting. (lol) I honestly do think the Tories are finished as a result of Brexit. I cant see the slippery sods getting themselves out of this one very easily. Of course if Brexit is a resounding success and everyone lives happily ever after I could be proved wrong but who believes that? If I was them and in October (or November now probably) and I had whatever fudged deal I had in my hand and still had my party strangling each other over it I would go back to the country and say "This is it" Do you want it or do you want to give it all up as a bad job? That might save them it might not but its better than going ahead with whatever version of Brexit they come up with only for people then to find out its totally pants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spospe Posted August 31, 2018 Author Share Posted August 31, 2018 To date the result of this poll shows a desire to remain in the EU. It's not a huge vote, but nevertheless this Forum seems to be saying that members (for whatever reason) would like to stay. I am off to Belgium, Germany and France tomorrow and I will ask our continental cousins if they would like us to stay or go. I shall report back on my return in November. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 spospe - 2018-08-31 11:58 AM To date the result of this poll shows a desire to remain in the EU. Those 2 are prolly Barry's imaginary Remoaner mates he's got to vote ;-) .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 All those endless doomsday reports from Barry regarding leaving and given that Chatterbox seems to have more than it's fair share of whingers and butt hurt sore losers and there's only 2 votes in it ??? ... I'm surprised leave got 5 votes ... Anyway it doesn't matter cos according to Barry and Veronica it looks like we are now leaving Europe as well ... Say goodbye to Europe for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 See it just goes to show you dont know what your voting for. The poll is a poll asking how you think another referendum would go not if you would prefer to remain or stay. Brexit polls on whether your a remainer or leaver on forums are a bit pointless as on most forums the Brexiteers have cleared off or maybe pegged out I dunno. Digital Spy Politics forum which is massive was very much pro Brexit before June 2016 and now the latest poll shows 81% in favour of remain. This is the only forum left where there are still a fair few Brexiteers. I think they are a bit like those Japanese soldiers stranded on South Pacific islands who were still fighting world war two forty years after it ended. You just dont realise that Brexit is doomed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 Barryd999 - 2018-08-31 1:44 PM See it just goes to show you dont know what your voting for. The poll is a poll asking how you think another referendum would go not if you would prefer to remain or stay. Brexit polls on whether your a remainer or leaver on forums are a bit pointless as on most forums the Brexiteers have cleared off or maybe pegged out I dunno. Digital Spy Politics forum which is massive was very much pro Brexit before June 2016 and now the latest poll shows 81% in favour of remain. This is the only forum left where there are still a fair few Brexiteers. I think they are a bit like those Japanese soldiers stranded on South Pacific islands who were still fighting world war two forty years after it ended. You just dont realise that Brexit is doomed. Maybe they got what they wanted 2 years ago and don't feel the need to whinge and moan endlessly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 antony1969 - 2018-08-31 2:05 PM Barryd999 - 2018-08-31 1:44 PM See it just goes to show you dont know what your voting for. The poll is a poll asking how you think another referendum would go not if you would prefer to remain or stay. Brexit polls on whether your a remainer or leaver on forums are a bit pointless as on most forums the Brexiteers have cleared off or maybe pegged out I dunno. Digital Spy Politics forum which is massive was very much pro Brexit before June 2016 and now the latest poll shows 81% in favour of remain. This is the only forum left where there are still a fair few Brexiteers. I think they are a bit like those Japanese soldiers stranded on South Pacific islands who were still fighting world war two forty years after it ended. You just dont realise that Brexit is doomed. Maybe they got what they wanted 2 years ago and don't feel the need to whinge and moan endlessly Well if you really think your getting what you and 17 million others voted for over two years ago then you really didnt know what you were voting for. All of it, down the toilet. No great deals, no slow down on immigrants (just different ones), no £350m and a smashed economy to look forward to. For what exactly? Making our own rules about Bananas? Probably not even that when we see the deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 Barryd999 - 2018-08-31 2:26 PM Well if you really think your getting what you and 17 million others voted for Yep ;-) ........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 Barryd999 - 2018-08-31 2:26 PM antony1969 - 2018-08-31 2:05 PM Barryd999 - 2018-08-31 1:44 PM See it just goes to show you dont know what your voting for. The poll is a poll asking how you think another referendum would go not if you would prefer to remain or stay. Brexit polls on whether your a remainer or leaver on forums are a bit pointless as on most forums the Brexiteers have cleared off or maybe pegged out I dunno. Digital Spy Politics forum which is massive was very much pro Brexit before June 2016 and now the latest poll shows 81% in favour of remain. This is the only forum left where there are still a fair few Brexiteers. I think they are a bit like those Japanese soldiers stranded on South Pacific islands who were still fighting world war two forty years after it ended. You just dont realise that Brexit is doomed. Maybe they got what they wanted 2 years ago and don't feel the need to whinge and moan endlessly Well if you really think your getting what you and 17 million others voted for over two years ago then you really didnt know what you were voting for. All of it, down the toilet. No great deals, no slow down on immigrants (just different ones), no £350m and a smashed economy to look forward to. For what exactly? Making our own rules about Bananas? Probably not even that when we see the deal. On meeting someone new how many seconds normally does it take for you to start telling em about how bad leaving is guna be ??? ... Bet your love making lasts longer and according to your boyfriend that's well under a minute Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 antony1969 - 2018-08-31 3:15 PM Barryd999 - 2018-08-31 2:26 PM antony1969 - 2018-08-31 2:05 PM Barryd999 - 2018-08-31 1:44 PM See it just goes to show you dont know what your voting for. The poll is a poll asking how you think another referendum would go not if you would prefer to remain or stay. Brexit polls on whether your a remainer or leaver on forums are a bit pointless as on most forums the Brexiteers have cleared off or maybe pegged out I dunno. Digital Spy Politics forum which is massive was very much pro Brexit before June 2016 and now the latest poll shows 81% in favour of remain. This is the only forum left where there are still a fair few Brexiteers. I think they are a bit like those Japanese soldiers stranded on South Pacific islands who were still fighting world war two forty years after it ended. You just dont realise that Brexit is doomed. Maybe they got what they wanted 2 years ago and don't feel the need to whinge and moan endlessly Well if you really think your getting what you and 17 million others voted for over two years ago then you really didnt know what you were voting for. All of it, down the toilet. No great deals, no slow down on immigrants (just different ones), no £350m and a smashed economy to look forward to. For what exactly? Making our own rules about Bananas? Probably not even that when we see the deal. On meeting someone new how many seconds normally does it take for you to start telling em about how bad leaving is guna be ??? ... Bet your love making lasts longer and according to your boyfriend that's well under a minute To be honest I never talk about Brexit offline at all. I spend half my life waiting for stuff to happen like I am now watching a 2gb download take for ever so I have lots of time to discuss it with you Antony. (lol) What will we all do when its all over, if its ever over. 8-) "Love making" WTF Who the feck says that anymore Granddad? I could tell you but I wouldn't want you to get an inferiority complex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-08-31 2:34 PM Barryd999 - 2018-08-31 2:26 PM Well if you really think your getting what you and 17 million others voted for Yep ;-) ........... Yes thats just a Brexit voting form from 2016 Dave. It means nothing. Its a bit like buying a house off plan that was sold to you as a five bed detached with a pool but when its delivered its a garden shed with a burst kiddies paddling pool next to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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