Mel B Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 I've been tempted - not again I can hear you all say! Yes, this time by a motorhome based on the above chassis with twin rear wheel drive, 3,500kg spec (although it could be uprated but we're not bothered). The motorhome is a Rimor Sailer 645TC (low profile) which is larger than we were originally considering being a smidgen over 7m but it seems to mostly fit the bill as to what we now need/want for our holidays. It's new and unregistered but on the out-going Transit base. Anyone any comments on the Transit base and/or the motorhome in general if you have one or a Rimor of another type. It appears to be a very well constructed motorhome - going from a Rapido it has to be as we've been spoilt! Any comments, advice, observations gratefully received, we need to let them know if we want it on Monday morning! Clive and Campbell - I've sent you both PMs. Regards Mel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 Mel, I sent you a PM. Further thoughts, check the resale value of a Rimor on the previous chassis. The previous range of Transits used a mixture of engines, some with chain cam and some with belts. Once you go over a standard car parking space length then another metre makes little difference to driving. c. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 It'll cost you more on the ferries!I think you should bother with the (unspecified) payload. What you said you already carry, plus what you'll find you can now take in the 7 metres, will soon surpass your 3,500Kg max limit!Otherwise, I believe Rimor are one of the better Italian brands qualitywise, and do/did quite a lot of vans on the Merc chassis, which they always promoted as a superior quality product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 Why on earth would you want to buy a vehicle which has been out of production and probably old stock.Unless of course the price is very good - but from a UK dealer I very much doubt that. The new Ford, available since last September is a much more up to date vehicle and is 98% new - only sharing 2% of old model. The payload on this vehicle without an upgrade will be virtually non existent - how can this not bother you. If you will consider LHD I bet you could buy a new 2007 model for the same money – just guessing here but pretty confident of this. As I have just saved over £8000 on a LHD Euramobil. Try www.mobile.de for a price comparison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted January 28, 2007 Author Share Posted January 28, 2007 Hi Judge The van is approx £5,000 under what it normally cost brand new and if I compare it to what the 2007 new style ones are it's more like £9,000 difference as they are over £40,000 plus all the options and accessories which the one we're looking at has, hence why we are seriously considering it. Payload is 450kg so shouldn't be a problem in standard trim for us. We want RHD so although there are savings to be made abroad, LHD isn't an option. I've had a look at the mobile.de website and they have a 2006 one on a Merc - it is still over £30,000 with around 9,000 miles on. I've got a headache now! :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 "It'll cost you more on the ferries!" Only if you tell them!!! I thought all motorhomes stopped at 6.5 metres??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
empress Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 Can't give you any advice (so must be going off thread) but do let us know what you decide. Good luck anyway. Empress Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 MelMake absolutely sure you know exactly how that payload has been calculated. It should exclude all fitted (i.e. whether standard or not) equipment, habitation battery, full fuel tank, full fresh water tank, full gas bottles (check size, and whether steel or aluminium bottles have been taken for), all tools, and a driver at 75Kg. Even after that lot are deducted 450Kg is not at all generous, even if the calculation includes everything it should. An awning, (or anything elese you fit/have fitted - bike rack, roof rack, rear ladder?), for example, will knock off about 50Kg for starters.If these are already there, and have been fitted by the dealer, check whether he has deducted their weights from the manufacturer's standard payload, dealers don't always remember to do this. However, I think you'll need at least 550 - 600Kg for a van of that size. Also, do be aware that several of the Italian manufacturers are rather coy about what loads are included in their MIRO. The more they leave out, the higher the payload looks!It may be cheap, but it could just be a cheap lemon, and that, possibly, may be why it a) hasn't sold, and b) is so cheap!However, with the chassis upgrade, and provided you like the van and the drive, it looks pretty good value to me.But, what's the rush? What will they do if you don't let them know by Monday morning? Throw it away? Double the price? Sulk and stamp their foot? Play hard to get. Say you're interested - but it's still too expensive. They want to get rid of this one so go for blood! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
messerschmitt owner Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 I've the bigger rimor - with the bigger payload - over a ton! And I know it's impossible to fill it and be legal (axle weights) - biggest issue is the payload of the garage (125kg on the Merc - with a rear overhang of about 0.3m more). Other than that, as they say - once it doesn't fit in one space at Tesco's what does it matter. I always found that the big advantage of the fixed bed was that one could go on a ferry at any time (and on the cheapest rate) by simply parking up before one got to the ferry and sleeping till it was time for the off. We took our 7.54m Rimor on a ferry the month after we bought it and were charged a nice cheap rate (even on the Portsmouth Le havre crossing). Booking months ahead and having no kiddies to consider means ferry rates are cheap. Our Rimor is also supposedly 3.05M high - but every French toll measured at 2.96m and we got through on the cheap rates. The Rimors come as standard with roof rack and ladder (at least the more expensive ones do!) - but I have learned never to trust any manufacturer's quoted payload and would rather buy a van with a larger payload (like ours) or upgradeable like the 645TC (with the twin axles it has been downgraded to 3.5T anyway). It doesn't need bike racks or any of that nonsense because it has a huge garage - ours is fully 6ft7 x 6ft. with double doors. Build quality is good (I wouldn't say it was perfect) and they do have decent washrooms, as well as plenty of storage space inside and a decent fridge/freezer. In two years, ours has been back to Southdowns only once for warranty work and that was for door hinges on the rear garage doors - graphite grease has solved the problems permanently. Campbell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 All post-2000 diesel-engined RWD Transits have chain-driven camshafts. Although Ford advertised that a host of technical alterations had been made for the very latest Transit generation, the particular chassis on which 'your' Sailer 645TC was built is likely to have been least affected. Its 2.4litre 137PS TDCi motor with 6-speed gearbox has been transplanted into Transit 2006 so preceding and new model performance figures should be identical. Except for the gear-lever position I doubt you'd notice any significant difference from the driving point of view. From what I recall, the 'caravan' part of Sailer is constructed on a robust galvanised steel frame that sits on top of the standard chassis, resulting in a very rigid body and plenty of garage load-carrying capability. A 2005 French motorhome magazine quoted a 713kg payload for this model (in 3500kg form) but 450kg sounds much more probable. (I've got a few somewhat out-of-date Rimor brochures and payload data are conspicuous by their absence!) I echo other respondents' concern that you'll hit the 3500kg barrier very easily, but the only way to make a value judgement on this is to insist that the vendor gets the vehicle weighed before you commit to purchasing it. I'd also take expert advice on what 'up-plating' the chassis would entail. If Sailer 645 is built on a down-plated 4250kg chassis (you might expect to see "T430" on the cab doors) then up-plating should be simple. But if it's built on a T350 3500kg chassis then you might need to make suspension/brake/tyre alterations to obtain a higher payload. Personally, I don't greatly care for Rimor interiors and I consider the company's historic policy of tacking add-on moulded plastic panels to their motorhomes' exteriors to be an odd style statement. However, I did see a Transit-based Sailer 645TC on a French aire and I really coveted it as the whole thing just looked 'right'. The caravan part even matched the colour of the cab - a rare thing where Ford motorhomes are concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howie Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 Hi Mel. You do seem to be getting a fair discount, but for a old model Ford and the 450kg payload, which to me seems totally inadequate for a van this size, then given the doubts you seem to have, I would give this a miss, or at least a great deal of thought. Sorry if this causes you even more confusion, but for this sort of money we all want to see you get it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted January 29, 2007 Author Share Posted January 29, 2007 Well, I'm afraid to say ... the WORM has turned ... I'll put you all out of your misery, we've gone and done it and signed up for it, should get it in a couple of weeks. The deal was very good, the test drive we had had on Saturday went very well, it drove like a dream with very little in the way of noise or body roll thanks to the twin rear wheels. The deal we have is very good indeed, some £5,000 below what they had been selling the same model of van for just a month or so ago, in total they'd sold over 60 Rimors last year in various guises. The van is also a fully spec'd one with lots of the extra options being included that you would expect on a top range model, full cooker, larger split fridge/freezer, carpets, being able to make the dinette into a double bed, fly-screen, uprated Heki with lighting etc. Being able to just put in £10,300 (including awning, directional aerial, BBQ point and on the road costs etc) on top of our van is extremely good value - the best we had previously been offered for ours was £24,000 and that was on a van that someone was very keen to get rid of as it really wasn't selling, the average PX had only been £22,000. So, to take the top value for our van of £24,000 plus £10,300 = £34,300, seeing as they originally had it up for just shy of £39,000 plus the cost of the awning, BBQ point and aerial it seemed like a really good deal to us. We've looked at a lot of vans since the Christmas break, we had a look at some then and also spent the last 2 weekends touring round several dealers to see what was on offer and had managed to determing our needs/wants. We were toying with a rear lounge but that brought it's own problems and hopefully having the fixed bed, garage and front dinnette we'll have the most suitable arrangement for us, somewhere to eat properly, lounge a bit, slob out on the bed if we want to, we can also both have our own space for a bit of a peace & quiet as I like to go to bed earlier than my hubby and have a read whilst he plots the following day's activities, by having separate areas for sleeping and sitting it means we can still do this. In any case, if the worse comes to the worse we shouldn't loose out if we find it's not what we really want and decide to change in a year, we actually shouldn't loose any more money than if we'd kept the Rapido for another year as it will be wanting a MOT again soon, road tax, a new exhaust system and tyres, and that's assuming nothing else needs doing in the meantime as it's not under warranty anymore. The Rimor comes with 2 years full warranty on both mechanical and habitation so that's 2 years' peace of mind and as the Kentucky is basically the same vehicle in a different guise (thanks Campbell for the info!), then looking after it shouldn't be a problem as there are few dealers that can look after them now. As for the payload, we don't carry vast amounts around, not alcohol anyway as I don't drink! There are only the two of us plus 2 dogs, one small, one medium sized, the only other heavy items are the inflatable canoe (20kg) and 2 bikes (30kg total), the rest is just normal bits and pieces such as pots, pans, clothing, our food & drinks, dog food (of course!), a few electrical kitchen bits (we don't use a microwave so that saves a bit of weight), we actually travel fairly light by comparison to some other motorhomers and I'm sure we will have more storage space than we'll know what to do with! We have worked our payload out to be around 385kg (not including the MIRO stuff such as fuel, water, gas bottles etc) and that's being very over cautious! What we intend to do is to get the van, load it up then get it weighed, if it's too close to the overall limit then we'll get it upgraded, but as the chassis is already the higher one which has been down-plated there's no problem with brakes etc as it's already up to the job, it's just a paper exercise and the company are willing to do this for us without a problem if necessary (obviously we'd pay the costs) - if we intended to bring back crates and crates of alcoholic beverages when we go abroad that would be a different matter. At least the fact that it is on this chassis gives us the option if in the future we decide to take a moped with us, of having it upgraded to take it, there's not many vans you can do that with! I'll be very, very sorry to see my 'baby' Rapido go and I know I'm going to get quite upset as we've had a lot of fun in it especially when we had our little dog Piggy with us (who we lost earlier last year). It's the memories we'll treasure - sorry ... I'm just a big softie at heart!!!! :$ The only thing we need to get sorted is the alarm which I'm hoping Dexter's 'Dad' will be able to do but I've got to sort out the logistics first as the insurance won't cover it for theft until it's done! Thanks to everyone for the input above and in PMs, it's been really useful and informative. I've attached a picture of our new beastie for you all to see what the excietment has been about! ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 Congratulations Mel, that's a fine looking motorhome. I'm sure you'll have plenty of good times in it and create some new memories as you go. Give me a ring as soon as you've got a fixed delivery date and we'll see what can be done about your alarm situation. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted January 29, 2007 Author Share Posted January 29, 2007 Totally forgot to say, the van is coming from RDH (www.rdh.co.uk) and they have several other makes or new (2006) models up for grabs with similarly good deals on them. The model details links on their website don't always work but they still had lots of them for sale when we were there late on Saturday, some are also on ebay as well but they will remove them if they sell them direct and will do PXs as well. For those of you who remember RDH as being the company that went bust, don't worry, this was the original RDH who were dealers for Benimar motorhomes. After they went bust the present RDH owners (who are the people behind Hire Buddies) bought the trading name so they could use it to sell motorhomes and I must admit that from our experience of dealing with them they are certainly going to go a long way, very nice people, not pushy at all, no pressure or 'blackmail' tactics. A really nice bunch of people, we are actually looking forward to dealing with them as we are sure the experience is going to be a pleasant one, unlike if we were buying from other dealerships where we would be thinking "okay, what's going to go wrong then?"! Before we went to RDH, we visited another dealership first on Saturday morning and expressed a lot of serious interest in one of their vans, despite this, they were extremely reluctant to even let us have a test drive! My husband was quite prepared to walk out of the door due to the way the sale chap was making it seem we were 'tyre-kickers' (he said it!), he actually wanted us to say we wanted the van for definite before we had a run in it. We were honest with him and told him that we were serious but that we wouldn't make a decision there and then as we had already arranged to go to other dealerships and wouldn't go back on our word and obviously needed to see what the van drove like in order to see if it was okay on the road, especially after the experience with the A class we'd driven. It took some doing but we eventually got a test drive and were very seriously considering the van before we saw the Rimor. However, I must admit that the reluctance of this dealer did make us quite wary as to what would happen if we had bought from him and then had warranty etc issues. He could do with brushing up a bit on his 'user friendliness' skills as I suspect he must've put off other potential purchasers as well. Anyway, all's well and good hopefully! I'll keep you all posted. (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest starspirit Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 Happy days Mel - or is that now 'hello sailor' - hope you will all be very happy together Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith T Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 Nice looking van Mel, and actually looks better than the new Transit front, although I 've never driven either. Did drive an older transpit 'white' van (borrowed for removal purposes' and it was awful...! Mind you that's after being used to Fiat/Peugeot which I aalways liked. DIfficult folloiwng a Rapido, our change to the Burstner should be an interesting experience as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Jones Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 Hi Mel! Welcome to the ranks of Devotees and Afficionados of Ford Transits In Every Shape (DAFTIES). A shiny new one like yours is something I can only aspire to, but our old "Hannibal" (1989 Hi-top, home converted by someone, sometime) is still going strong. I've driven a Trannie of your vintage (sorry "the vintage of your van") in minibus form, and long ago decided that when the time (ie money!) comes for a new(er) camper it'll be Ford again for us. Enjoy! Tony (I'll try to attach a pic of Hannibal, but if I fail I WON'T send this post 4 times!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Jones Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 Why doesn't this forum like my pictures? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
empress Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 Goodbye WORM and "Hello Sailer". All good wishes and hope you have many happy voyages. She looks a lovely ship. Empress Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 I am afraid it’s simple really; the same applies to white goods in the kitchen as motorhomes. For good quality and reliability you pay a bit more and purchase either German or French. With motorhomes it’s exactly the same. Inexplicably you have gone from a quality product to a cheaply manufactured one. Only time will tell but I have seen many 2-3 year old Italian vans on site and they show their age very quickly. Perhaps why you don’t see many for sale in Germany. They are cheaper because they are old heavy technology (lots of wood in the construction) . There are very few “bargains” in life, everything has a market value and you have paid that for an old model vehicle which dealer was finding impossible to shift. And as for part exchange, I sold my motorhome from interest generated via an eBay auction in November and achieved a very good price. It’s always better to sell privately. It removes an element of sales deal temptation which can cloud your perception and you can always achieves a much better deal with a straight purchase. Like the Detleff, again they are not suitable for winter use in standard form. And what can you say about a company that does not publish vehicle weights. I suggest you get an oil change and have the brakes checked immediately as it has been standing around for such a long time. If this sounds harsh I am sorry but it’s a lot more honest then a salesman’s spiel and may be helpful to others…. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 Good old JudgeMental, always looking on the bright side. Happy holidays Mel. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 Dave less of the "old" and did you forget a smiley to show your comments where in good humour? "happy holidays" is exactly the point.... New ford comes with cruise as standard :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 So, sailing off into the sunset, whistling a hornpipe!Well done, sounds good to me! If you have the beefy chassis, you can load to the max anyway. Just remember that the fuzz will still take the plate on the van as gospel, so don't overdo it!Aye, Jim lad, shiver me timbers and splice the mainbrace, if it ain't old Jack tar! Two points to starboard and steady as she goes. Just watch out for the black spot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted January 30, 2007 Author Share Posted January 30, 2007 Well, JudgeMental, thanks very much for all of that, nowt like being honest is there!!!! :-| The 'van isn't one of the cheap Italian jobs, it's one of the better quality ones, please give me some credit for not picking something that will fall to pieces in five minutes as I've been in the motorhome game for long enough to know better now - a few years back we did have a Swift ... that really was a load of cr*p! I've seen some of the supposed German 'high quality' vans that have been atrociously built, so to say they only build good ones isn't correct either and some of the more expensive French ones aren't always that good, the quality of one make in particular has suffered in the last couple of years or so. The build of the Rimor is very high with good quality construction with a fully galvanised steel frame and chassis on top of the Ford base making a very well supported and stable motorhome. The furniture was all well finished and doors etc fitted well, no nasty gaps etc like some makes. Have a look at how they are built in their photos of the factory tour by going to the link below, it makes interesting viewing: http://www.southdownsmotorcaravans.co.uk/galleries/misc/2006rimorfactoryvisit/pixindex.html The dealer wasn't finding it impossible to shift the van, it was just the last of many and being short of space with new vans due shortly they had to clear some space, the don't have the masses of room to let them sit in a corner until they are sold many months later like many other dealers do. In fact today when we visited, we found that since we were last there on Saturday they had taken delivery of a large American motorhome imported direct from the States for a customer which was taking up the space of 2 European vans so it was getting extremely tight in their showroom!!! I assure you that I did not let 'temptation' cloud my thoughts is any way, I actually looked at the whole deal very cold-heartedly indeed, not getting emotionally involved with it at all, it was only because the deal made good sense that I then look more closely at the van itself to see if it was suitable for our needs, as well as asking for comments etc from people in the know who have Rimor motorhomes already and/or Transit based vehicles, and searching out lots of data on the internet about them. It would have been nice to sell privately, however, as we use the van for at least one short trip most months, including going away over the Christmas break, the risk of not having one for a substantial period of time was one which we would not take, also I would not want to sell my van and then find out that I couldn't get something suitable to replace it, that would really have been a major problem! In fact I believe that part of the reason the deal was so good was that the dealer could make some money off our van as he was not making much, if anything, off the sale of the Rimor. If we had just gone in as straight buyers with no PX I don't think we'd have been able to get it so cheaply especially since they are putting on a bike rack, awning, aerial, BBQ point and sockets etc at no extra charge, yes they are from bits and pieces they mainly have in stock any way but it has saved us quite a lot of money in the process. Oh, by the way, we dealt with the Director of the company, not a pushy sales rep, but none of them are pushy anyway, just very nice people, very friendly and genuine. We didn't know he was the Director, I've just found that out by accident on the internet, he never made mention of it at all, he is a very pleasant guy to deal with and makes a lovely cup of hot chocolate! Somehow I can't see the Director of some of the larger dealerships bothering to look after us like that! As for being able to use the van in winter, it is very well insulated with 30mm walls and ceilings and 40mm for the floor. On reading a review in MMM done in June 2003 (on a Merc) the reviewer commented that at -17c outside he was nice and toasty inside just by using the gas heating. These vans are built to be used by Italians who like to go to ski resorts in the middle of winter, not just by summer holiday makers who use some of the cheaper Italian makes, the Rimor is meant to be used all year round and in extreme conditions. It also has such niceties as rigid water pipes - something even the Rapido doesn't have! I'm very happy with our new purchase and having researched it quite a bit before we said we'd definitely have it I am confident it will do exactly what we want it to ... hopefully if all goes well we'll be able to collect it by the end of next week! :-> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 Tony Jones - 2007-01-30 10:16 AM Why doesn't this forum like my pictures? Possibly to big, thats problem I had when trying to post one of my photo,s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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