cookie Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 We have been in France for quite a long time, and had trouble with our Truma regulator, we understand that it is something to do with contamination in the gas, clogging up the regulator. We replaced the regulator, but have been told that it is a common problem, and Truma have been replacing faulty regulators. Does anyone out there know about this problem, and if so what can be done to stop it happening again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chas Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 Hi Cookie- From what I understand of this appalling situation on Truma regulators (I am on my third one) Truman have now stated that they will not replace anymore as they believe their product is faultless. The National Caravan Council and in partnership with dealers have agreed to replace the defective regulators free of charge, while still under warranty. This decision was hailed as a success, but what happens when the warranty expires is anyones guess. It is thought that moving the regulator to be higher than the gas bottle outlet cures the problem, but in my case there is insuficient room in the gas cupboard to allow this to be carried out. I changed to propane and Flowgas, and have had no problems so far, but this is hardly confidence inspiring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 The type and brand of gas used has been proven to not have any influence over the failures of these regulators. My belief is that it is a combination of factors. I have come to the belief that some elements in the gas cylinder are affecting the high pressure hose and POSSIBLY dissolving some of the plasticisers used therein. This is not a new situation and is the reason that gas hoses have a finite safe working life of five years. I never heard of this occuring with cylinder mountwed regulators, why? Because the reg in that situation is always mounted at the top of the cylinder and there is no rubber hose between the cylinder and it. Where the new reg is mounted above the cylinder and with no loops of hose dangling below the top of the cylinder these oily residues can drain back into the cylinder. Where the reg is mounted below the cylinder top and especially if it is mounted in a vertically downward (inlet at the top and outlet at the bottom) orientation then these residues can, and will, collect in the regulator where they will eventually clog it up. To me the answer seems fairly clear, where possible the regulator should be mounted in a horizontal orientation above the top of the cylinder with no droopy loops of high pressure hose between it and the cylinder where the residues could collect. Chas, can your reg not be mounted to the underside of the top of the locker? D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Frank Wilkinson Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 Gaslow has just announced a range of stainless steel rubber-free hoses, which they claim should solve this problem. Perhaps these new hoses can be used in normal installations as well as Gaslow ones?Over to Dave Newell who can probably tell us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chas Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 Hi Dave - I have investigated the possibilty of having the regulator mounted horizontaly on the roof of the cupboard, but feel it would be very vunerable to being knocked or damaged when changing cylinders, it is very cramped in there, and one as to put the cylinders in just the right way for them to not jam. I have thought of the stainless steel hoses and if they become available with pigtail- propane connectors may try that. Regards chas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 Chas, These are available now, see page 32 MMM Gaslow advert, however I understand that they are quite expensive around £33 each! Seems a lot to me to cure what appears to be a Truma design problem. Bas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 Frank Wilkinson - 2007-01-28 11:13 AMGaslow has just announced a range of stainless steel rubber-free hoses, which they claim should solve this problem. Perhaps these new hoses can be used in normal installations as well as Gaslow ones?Over to Dave Newell who can probably tell us.I'll look into it Frank and get back to you all.D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest starspirit Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 One could of course always remove the 'new' system and revert to the old system which worked so faultlessly for many years before modern EU inspired technology 'improved' it? Keeping the old parts of course to reinstall when selling the van it is a simple enough job for any competent DIY'er. There might also be warranty issues for newer vans but as the old gas systems were so simple and reliable this seems unlikely. However if one is not used to working with gas plumbing the work should off course be consigned to those who are. I would like to have said entrusted but cynicism prevents - unless you trust and know who to use! I have done this on a previous van and it cured the problem completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chas Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 Hi Starspirit- The only problem I think with your idea is that the gas appliances ie stove/ water heater/space heater would all be set to work on the 30mb setting, where as the old style propane and butane regulators are set for 37 and 28 mb. chas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 The Truma-marketed 30mbar 2-stage regulator that all the fuss has been about (like Chas I'm also on my third one!) is made by the German company GOK. GOK also manufacture 'on-bottle' 30mbar single stage regulators and, in fact, this was what my Germany-bought 2005-model Hobby started life with. Although I could have obtained an adapter in the UK to convert this regulator's German-bottle connection to a UK propane one I chose instead to adapt the Hobby's gas system to include the Truma bulkhead-mounted regulator. It would seem from the literature that accompanies the 2-stage product that, although marketed in the UK solely for bulkhead mounting and remote bottle connection, an alternative inlet-design version may be available for on-bottle connection. Essentially, if you want to go 30mbar 'on-bottle', it's possible to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 chas - 2007-01-28 9:41 PM Hi Starspirit- The only problem I think with your idea is that the gas appliances ie stove/ water heater/space heater would all be set to work on the 30mb setting, where as the old style propane and butane regulators are set for 37 and 28 mb. chas I don't think this is quite correct Chas, the 30 Mbar pressure was arrived at as a compromise between the two "normal" pressures and the various appliances can handle the small variation between 30 Mbar and the old pressures they were designed for. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Frank Wilkinson Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 Dave Newell - 2007-01-28 11:30 AM Frank Wilkinson - 2007-01-28 11:13 AM Gaslow has just announced a range of stainless steel rubber-free hoses, which they claim should solve this problem. Perhaps these new hoses can be used in normal installations as well as Gaslow ones?Over to Dave Newell who can probably tell us. I'll look into it Frank and get back to you all. D. Dave, I just wondered if you'd had the chance to look at this yet? I'm just off to collect my 'van after eventually getting my Gaslow system fitted ( cancelled recently 'cause of the storms!) and I'm wondering about immediately ordering two of the new steel hoses to replace the standard ones.If the existing ones stand a chance of ruining my regulator I think that I may be wise to start from scratch with the steel ones.I could make the enquiries myself but thought it pointless if you're already investigating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 Hi Frank, I've seen them advertised but that's about it so far. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Frank Wilkinson Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 I decided to give Gaslow a call myself and was told that these hoses are about £30 each and are available in standard butane fitting but a small adaptor is available for anyone using propane.He told me that there is obviously a problem with the Truma regulator and that they have brought these out to try to eliminate the chance of deposits from the rubber hoses being responsible for this.His comments seemed to indicate that Gaslow wasn't yet 100% convinced that the rubber deposits are responsible but as he put it: "These new hoses should resolve the matter once and for all".As said earlier, I'm off soon to pick up my 'van with its new Gaslow installation and I've decided to order the steel hoses so that I've much less chance of my Truma regulator fouling up in the near future.Regrettably, it will be some time before I can inform you that I have, or haven't any problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest starspirit Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 I'm not convinced that either the Truma regulator or the high pressure rubber hoses are at fault. Could it be that it is impure gas or dirty bottles that are at fault as they allow dirty gas along the high pressure hoses where the residue settles at the first available low point which is often a loop in the hose from where, once an accumulation of gunge has formed, gas pressure pushes the mucky pool of sediment up into the regulator. As the problem only seems to occur when the regulator is positioned too low on the bulkhead and, whilst this is bad design, it can't be the fault of the regulator itself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chas Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 I am also wary of blaming the regulator or hose, reason being that my dealer who was fitting the 3rd regulator told me, they have changed dozens of them for clients with failures and stated it does not happen with propane or other brands of gas supplier, so the finger of suspicion points to contaminated Calor gas bottles. Only time will tell, but changing to stainless steel hoses would at least save the bother of changing the hoses every few years, this problem is only going to be sorted by a process of elimination. chas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Day Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 Hi All Like most of us it seems, I'm on my third regulator, I've moved the reg. to the top of the locker on my Kon- tiki, just come back from 6 weeks in Spain, used 2 13kg bottles and touch wood the new spare is still unused If anyone is really worried you can always get a longer rubber hose and keep the bottle on the ground outside the locker this gives the hose a really good downhill run!!! John :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 I have had a Gaslow manual changeover reg fitted half way down the side of the gas bottle locker for three years now and have had no problem, Still seems like a Truma design fault to me. Bas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 chas - 2007-01-30 2:58 PM I am also wary of blaming the regulator or hose, reason being that my dealer who was fitting the 3rd regulator told me, they have changed dozens of them for clients with failures and stated it does not happen with propane or other brands of gas supplier, so the finger of suspicion points to contaminated Calor gas bottles. Only time will tell, but changing to stainless steel hoses would at least save the bother of changing the hoses every few years, this problem is only going to be sorted by a process of elimination. chas It is definitely not restricted to Calor or butane. I've spoken to people who have had failures while running Gaslow systems, Shell gas, BP gas, Flogas, butane, propane etc. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Frank Wilkinson Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 Just remind me - how will I know if my regulator is failing? Does the gas supply just get weaker and do you get enough notice to replace it before it totally fails, if it does of course?Finally, if the fault is caused by gunge of some sort blocking the regulator, is it possible to blow it out using a compressor?Sorry if this has all been covered but there's nothing in this thread about my questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chas Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 Hi Frank- If you do suffer a blocked regulator what happens is the gas flames on say the stove just get lower and lose power, and if you light up another ring then they will both go lower and eventually go out. I have not tried to blow out or force compressed air through, and personaly I dont think that would work as there is supposed to be oily gunge inside and I think the technical term for that means its Knackered. chas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest starspirit Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 Agreed the gas just goes out just like an empty bottle. Interesting point about butane as mine have given no trouble (so far - kiss of death?) on propane and the only problems I had were with a butane bottle that I wanted to use before swapping it for propane? I think that some tails come with a gauze filter at the bottle connection end and this might keep the gunge from the regulator and be cleanable, but this is anecdotal and I have no proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 Truma(UK)'s explanation of why these regulators have failed agrees with Calor's statement that it's 'plasticisers' that have caused clogging. However, the critical difference is that Truma say their tests have proved that the offending plasticisers are not present in Truma-marketed pigtails or in the regulators themselves. The obvious implication is that Truma believe the 'oily muck' is in the LPG itself and that's why they felt justified in stopping general replacement of failed regulators under warranty. I've had correspondence with Calor about this (and with lots of other people) and was given the party-line that UK LPG is produced to BS:4250 so must, consequently, be beyond reproach. I argued that starting out 'clean' doesn't preclude LPG from becoming contaminated during post-production processes. If liquid-form LPG can leech plasticisers from leisure-vehicle pigtails, it can surely do the same thing with the flexible hoses used during the bottling procedures or that deliver LPG from autogas pumps. Pigtails appear to be available in either S/T (straight through) or N/R (non-return/excess flow valve) formats and it's probably the latter that have gauzes. Unfortunately a gauze filter (either in the pigtail or at the regulator's inlet) is likely to be ineffective at preventing this problem as it's a liquid that's the culprit. (Calor's verdict on gauze filters, not mine!) Incidentally, both my failed regulators showed no visible signs of contamination. In each case the motorhome had remained unused for several weeks and, when it was brought back into service, gas would not flow through the regulator. There was also no sign of 'muck' in the pigtail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest starspirit Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 I've just checked my pigtails and found that they both have no filter but do have one way valves in the bottle end and these can be got at with an allen key. Removing them and checking for gunge is not difficult but does require extreme care not to damage the rubber seals and in my case no gunge exists. My spare butane pigtail (for use with Camping Gaz bottle via adaptor) does not have either a filter or a one way valve and thus differs from the propane hose for some reason? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 Could we organise on here, or via MMM, a simple poll, to record who has suffered gas regulator failures, and whether regulators other than Truma (GOK) have been involved?Might this help to cut through some of the uncertainties, and bypass the industry's "divide and rule" tactics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.