C1 licence upgrade

[curdle]

I have to upgrade my car licence to C1 because of GVM 4050kg. Problem is, the motorhome is automatic with my car licence passed on manual. Anyone know if by taking the test in an automatic for the C1 upgrade, it will restrict me to automatic only?

[Billggski]

I found this, any help?

 

https://www.commercialmotor.com/news/dsa-to-allow-automatic-driving-tests-from-january

[curdle]

Awesome! Thank you. Heh, heh wonder what they think about the reversing cameras?

[PAJay]

You used not to be able to drive manual cars, if you had taken test in an Automatic. Maybe with so many automatic cars these days, that is not the case. ?

When I took my test, you had to do hand signals!! A bit painful in December Good job you we don't do that now, probably loose your arm!

PJay

[monique.hubrechtsgm]

Good lord, what has a car licence to do whit a gear box?

[Wasnt Me]

Are you going to take the test in your motorhome?

 

I was under the impression that you need to have a medical then apply for the licence and then undertake training.

 

Can you book a test and show up in your vehicle?

 

 

[curdle]

Hi Monique, If you pass a foreign car licence in an automatic car, when you convert your licence to a UK one, it will not allow you to drive a manual car. That is why I was concerned about the upgrade. My SA licence allows me to drive any DE vehicle but upon conversion in UK only issued with a B licence whereas UK drivers automatically achieve a C1 if they passed a car test before 1979. Many UK insurers are now insisting that you have to have held a UK issued licence for 2 years before they will even consider coverage! 40yrs of driving in your own country is not considered adequate!

[curdle]

Hi Wasn't me, yes will do the test in the motorhome to avoid paying a rental fee at some "driver school". I have had to do the medical and will write the tests. I hold the equivalent of an EU DE from my home country so no need to train on the vehicle - just show up after passing the tests. UK car licence holders of certain vintage are automatically entitled to C1. Foreign drivers are apparently only capable of controlling donkey carts.

[Derek Uzzell]

Drivers passing the UK ‘car’ driving test (manual or automatic vehicle) prior to 1 January 1997 were automatically awarded C1 and C1E entitlements that remain valid until the driver reaches age 70.

 

Not sure what happens wth holders of ‘foreign’ licences, but - for UK residents - gaining a C1 entitlement if this has not been held in the past can be an expensive exercise.

[curdle]

Derek, expensive from the point of view of training? i had to pay 134.00 for the medical but see no need to do "training". i am an experienced HGV driver and in any case a vehicle upgraded from 3500 kg to 4050 kg is hardly relevant in handling terms. in my opinion many motorhome owners are unwittingly (or perhaps wittingly, especially after loading up their wine supplies) driving above 3500kg GVM in any case since manufacturers are desperate to stay below 3500 regardless of impact of a real life loaded vehicle.

[W3526602]

Hi,

 

I done a Google for WHAT CAN I DRIVE. There is no specific group for AUTOMATIC MGV, so therefore if you passed your first test in a manual gearbox, it would be reasonable to assume that you know how to drive a manual MGV. At worst, you could drive manual vehicles in Group B, but only automatic vehicles in Group C.

 

However, the examiner is allowed to add restrictions to your entittlement. For instance, my wife has limited movement in one arm. She was restricted to A MOTOR CAR OR A MOTOR TRICYCLE, with no proviional entitlement to ride a motorcycle. Some years later this was changed to B+E, C and D, and all the others. She didn't ask why it was changed.

 

I have seen a FULL licence for ELECTRIC FORK TRUCKS IN GROUP N ONLY. Group N was for Section 7 Exempt Vehicles ... Vehicles used only between land in the owners occupation, not exceeding 6 miles per week. I assume the fork truck had 4 wheels, so a provisional licence holder would need to be accompanied.

 

My car licence, in 1965, entitled me to ride Mopeds. When I was posted to RAAF Butterworh in Malaya (but an RAF SAM site) I lived on Penang Island. My UK licence entitled me to a full Malyan licence. As the Malays did not have a seperate group for Mopeds, they gave me a FULL bike licence. There were 18 Brits and Ozzies killed on bikes in the two years I was there. 18 out of about 2000. I think every biker had "Honda Rash" at least once. I did.

 

If you have only a Cat.B licence, I'm guessing you are under 40-ish. Still young! It's worth spending whatever to get a full Cat.C at a driving school, and then a Cat D. Fewer and fewer people will be driving >3500kg campers, as the 70+ brigade down-size, so prices should drop.

 

602

[PAJay]

W3526602 - 2018-09-12 8:00 PM

 

Hi,

 

I done a Google for WHAT CAN I DRIVE. There is no specific group for AUTOMATIC MGV, so therefore if you passed your first test in a manual gearbox, it would be reasonable to assume that you know how to drive a manual MGV. At worst, you could drive manual vehicles in Group B, but only automatic vehicles in Group C.

 

However, the examiner is allowed to add restrictions to your entittlement. For instance, my wife has limited movement in one arm. She was restricted to A MOTOR CAR OR A MOTOR TRICYCLE, with no proviional entitlement to ride a motorcycle. Some years later this was changed to B+E, C and D, and all the others. She didn't ask why it was changed.

 

I have seen a FULL licence for ELECTRIC FORK TRUCKS IN GROUP N ONLY. Group N was for Section 7 Exempt Vehicles ... Vehicles used only between land in the owners occupation, not exceeding 6 miles per week. I assume the fork truck had 4 wheels, so a provisional licence holder would need to be accompanied.

 

My car licence, in 1965, entitled me to ride Mopeds. When I was posted to RAAF Butterworh in Malaya (but an RAF SAM site) I lived on Penang Island. My UK licence entitled me to a full Malyan licence. As the Malays did not have a seperate group for Mopeds, they gave me a FULL bike licence. There were 18 Brits and Ozzies killed on bikes in the two years I was there. 18 out of about 2000. I think every biker had "Honda Rash" at least once. I did.

 

If you have only a Cat.B licence, I'm guessing you are under 40-ish. Still young! It's worth spending whatever to get a full Cat.C at a driving school, and then a Cat D. Fewer and fewer people will be driving >3500kg campers, as the 70+ brigade down-size, so prices should drop.

 

602

 

John

I think the OP has a "Foreign" South African licence.

So it would appear my statement in previous post , still applies. You have to take a test to drive a manual vehicle in UK.

PJay

[W3526602]

<<< I think the OP has a "Foreign" South African licence. >>>

 

Hi PAJ,

 

Ah ... different goal posts.

 

A lady moved in next door, in the late 1990s. She had passed her driving test in UK, then emigrated to South Africa.

 

Twenty plus years later, she divorced and returned to UK, only to find (at that time) that her licence had expired after three years, and it was not renewed within ten years, her entitlement had lapsed.

 

At the time of her return, SA licences were not exchangable for UK licences. I believe that they are now exchangable, but under UK terms and conditions ... SA is not "harmonised" with the EU, so WE make the rules, in this case.

 

My neighbour drove under an IDP but I'm not sure if that was allowed I think (but don't know) that an IDP is for visitors to UK, not residents. ??? No licence = no insurance.

 

If the OP ever held a UK licence, the SA authorities should have returned it to DVLC/DVLA when he exchanged it for a SA licence. DVLA should still have his record ... they will need his name and DoB to trace it. If it was a "till 70" licence, his entitlement is still valid. I would argue that means his full entitlement B+E, C and D, etc, but I don't make the rules.

 

Some driving schools do crash courses, both on cars ang goods vehicles. I read about somebody who had never riden a motorcycle, taking a week to pass his test ... on a Honda Fireblade.

 

I believe that you now need to pass a car test before you can take lessons in something over 3,500kg. I could be wrong. All my knowledge is from 1985, and my wife's from 2002.

 

Perhaps worth mentioning. My neighbour brought her NEW Opel Viva back with her. Within a year, it was a rust bucket. South African cars are not built to drive on salty UK roads. Perhaps the PO should think about that before bringing his camper with him. Grey importers usually treat the 4x4s they bring from Japan. Google ALGY'S AUTOS in Bristol, see if they can advise.

 

602

[Derek Uzzell]

curdle - 2018-09-12 5:25 PM

 

Derek, expensive from the point of view of training? i had to pay 134.00 for the medical but see no need to do "training". i am an experienced HGV driver and in any case a vehicle upgraded from 3500 kg to 4050 kg is hardly relevant in handling terms. in my opinion many motorhome owners are unwittingly (or perhaps wittingly, especially after loading up their wine supplies) driving above 3500kg GVM in any case since manufacturers are desperate to stay below 3500 regardless of impact of a real life loaded vehicle.

 

As I emphasised, I am aware of the UK’s procedures for obtaining the C1 entitlement if a UK resident has only ever held the basic B ‘car’ entitlement, but I don’t know what would be involved in your case. If you only need to pass a medical examination and the relevant tests, but don’t require training, why should I think otherwise?

[curdle]

Hi Derek, I am not sure if I am understanding you correctly. Is there a specific DVLA requirement for driver training for a UK resident? I have driven HGV's for 40 years abroad, so do not require driver training unless there is some statutory requirement for a certain number of training hours. The UK will not exchange a foreign licence (outside EU) for the same category. They disregard category (DE in my case)and will issue only a B licence in exchange and they retain the foreign licence and send it back to the issuing country. If my original car licence had been issued in the UK, I would have had C1 entitlement under the historical rules, but again for foreigners the rule does not apply.

[curdle]

Hi John. PAJ is correct, I swapped my SA licence for a British one. The problem arises that although my SA licence allows me to drive DE class vehicles at home, it does not allow me to do so in the UK. On swapping, DVLA diregard the class of vehicle and simply issued a B car licence in return. So, despite having many years HGV experience, I have to go through each class sequentially if I ever want to get back to DE. As it happens I will be quite happy just to get the C1. I am certainly old enough that if I had been issued an earlier UK licence, I may have slipped in on the historical rule for C1.

 

I bought the motorhome in the UK but will eventually drive it back to South Africa so would be more concerned about dust ingress I think.

[Derek Uzzell]

curdle - 2018-09-13 9:30 AM

 

Hi Derek, I am not sure if I am understanding you correctly. Is there a specific DVLA requirement for driver training for a UK resident? I have driven HGV's for 40 years abroad, so do not require driver training unless there is some statutory requirement for a certain number of training hours. The UK will not exchange a foreign licence (outside EU) for the same category. They disregard category (DE in my case)and will issue only a B licence in exchange and they retain the foreign licence and send it back to the issuing country. If my original car licence had been issued in the UK, I would have had C1 entitlement under the historical rules, but again for foreigners the rule does not apply.

 

This website suggests that C1 training is mandatory

 

https://www.puredriving.co.uk/category-types/c1-and-c1e-courses/

 

I don’t know if that’s true and - as it won’t affect me personally - I’m not going to research the issue.

 

If you talk to the driving schools offering C1 training, they should be able to say what the UK requirements are.

[StuartO]

Derek Uzzell - 2018-09-13 1:39 PM

curdle - 2018-09-13 9:30 AMHi Derek, I am not sure if I am understanding you correctly. Is there a specific DVLA requirement for driver training for a UK resident? I have driven HGV's for 40 years abroad, so do not require driver training unless there is some statutory requirement for a certain number of training hours. The UK will not exchange a foreign licence (outside EU) for the same category. They disregard category (DE in my case)and will issue only a B licence in exchange and they retain the foreign licence and send it back to the issuing country. If my original car licence had been issued in the UK, I would have had C1 entitlement under the historical rules, but again for foreigners the rule does not apply.

This website suggests that C1 training is mandatoryhttps://www.puredriving.co.uk/category-types/c1-and-c1e-courses/I don’t know if that’s true and - as it won’t affect me personally - I’m not going to research the issue.If you talk to the driving schools offering C1 training, they should be able to say what the UK requirements are.

When I looked into it a few years ago by contacting DVLA, seeking to upgrade my grandfather C1+E to a test-passed C1+E (to achieve marginal gain on the maximum weight allowance)  it became clear that they allow no credit for what you might already have under grandfather rights and you would have to take a C1 test (as if from scratch, including the theory test) and then a separate "C1+E" test, both of which would have to be done using approved vehicles (i.e. a lorry and the lorry plus lorry-type trailer) in order to achieve the objective.  This would mean using the vehicles of a commercial driving school and acquiring skills (such as coupling and uncoupling air brakes) which you probably would never use again.  It was going to be a complex and costly business for marginal gain so I abandoned the idea.

My sympathies to the OP but I suspect he will have to do something similar to get a UK C1+E; it certainly won't just be a question of turning up with a big motorhome and a motohome trailer for a single test.

[1951Pete]

There is a link which specifies vehicle requirements which include a tachograph so not sure a motorhome will qualify. There are other rules regarding mirrors for the examiner.

 

Please see https://www.gov.uk/guidance/rules-for-lorries-used-for-driving-tests for details.

[Derek Uzzell]

There’s some 2013 background information here

 

https://www.ukmotorhomes.net/news/c1-driving-licence-test-for-non-commercial-drivers

 

https://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/motorhomes/news/c1-driving-licence-breakthrough

 

This more recent Practical Motorhome thread discusses the issue, refers to the link provided above by 1951Pete and comments further on the ‘vehicle requirements’ needed for the practical test.

 

https://www.practicalmotorhome.com/forum/new-members-say-hello/2074-driving-licence

[curdle]

Hi Derek

 

Armed with your advice and useful links, I concluded that nothing has happened since 2013 and thus my motorhome not suitable for use in the test because of the absence of a tachograph and mirror for the examiner. As a consequence I booked a session at an LGV driver training school. Imagine my bemusement that training was done in a hired lorry to which they attached a temporary mirror (for the instructor in this case) and despite the lorry having a tachograph, it has no relevance or function for the actual test.

 

From both the theoretical tests I passed and the "training" offered, I can conclude that the entire set-up is not fit for purpose for a motorhome owner. Everything in the tests both theoretical and practical is aimed at a professional driver, driving for reward. The driving school told me that DVSA are considering lowering the weight limits in the future which should send a chill through the motorhome industry if true and if they do not reconsider the current approach to the C1 licence.

 

This whole tacho nonsense is seriously annoying. Surely it is in the interests of the examiner to determine a would-be driver is fully conversant with the vehicle they intend to drive rather than having to point out redundant parts on a 12 yr old heavy lorry?

[PJay]

As you say The test was for HGV licence. So although you only want (at the moment) to drive you MH

If you gain the licence, you will then be able to drive other HGV's which will need tacho's etc.

So you are acquiring a licence to drive other , possibly much bigger vehicles, hence the cost involved.

I believe from memory (Used to work at an Oil deport ) you need another licence for articulated vehicles.

 

I hope you have now passed, and driving your MH

PJay

 

[curdle]

Hello

 

Actually...

 

LGV which is max 7500 kg. You are correct that articulation is C1E or CE. My examiner was intrigued that i did not seek C rather than C1 since i already held a foreign licence at D. No point, since all i want to do is drive my motorhome with a legal payload. My wife, however, is completely freaked out about having to train in a lorry as a pro-driver, so guess who will do all the driving?