Ducato 250 Cannot change Time on Dash

[Laurence]

Hi Everyone,

 

Newbie here. Have often read and appreciated the advice on the forum over the years, but never needed help or felt the need to contribute - but that has changed.

 

Have been caravanning (to start with) and motorhoming for over 35 years, and we travel a lot round Europe and the UK - in fact we are just back from Portugal.

 

We have a 2017 Laika Ecovip 600 that is a year old this month. It is a 6m A Class van based on the Fiat 250 H43 heavy chassis, with the 148hp engine, the comfortmatic gearbox, and it has the reconfigurable dash display. It's a super wagon.

 

The issue is quite minor, more an inconvenience, but I would value any advice or knowledge on how I might solve it.

 

The vehicle came with the UConnect satnav fitted, which was so useless it took 2 days to realise it was in Spain and not the UK, and after a few months of getting fed up with it I decided to replace it with a Pioneer 2din unit designed for campers (AVIC-Z810DAB-C).

 

Some of the settings for the vehicle were done through the UConnect settings, including the setting of the time on the dashboard. The Pioneer satnav, of course, picks up the correct time through the GPS receiver, but my dash time seems fixed, and I cannot alter it. There is a mode button to the right of the steering wheel, but 'Time' is not available - it probably would have been for vehicles not fitted with the UConnect.

 

So with the clocks going back the dash time is an hour out, and its not difficult to remember that, but I assume that if the battery were disconnected for a period the dash time might go to zero and I would have no means of resetting it.

 

I have spoken to the Fiat helpline and they were talking about reconfiguring the ECM or a possible dash change, which would be overkill, so I wondered if anyone on here had experienced something similar, or if anyone knew of a workaround.

 

So, grateful for any advice; and now that I have joined, I will try and help on other issues that arise if I can!

 

Many thanks,

Laurence

[witzend]

I'm not sure I understand but to alter my clock I press end of r/h stalk to select clock then same for hrs and mins then use up down buttons in dash to lower right of steering column to go higher or lower with numbers

[Laurence]

Hi Witzend,

 

Thanks for taking an interest.

 

It doesn't work like that on mine. The UConnect took over certain functions, including time, and removed them from the dash so that it was not set by any mode button or steering wheel stalks. The loss of the time alteration function with taking out the UConnect is obviously self-inflicted here, but one that we did not foresee. I'm looking for a workaround that does not involve huge expense!

 

Regards

[Robinhood]

AIUI, you will need to carry out a proxi align procedure on the ECUs. The electronics are configured to expect the Fiat radio, and this needs to be "removed".

 

Carrying out a proxi align with the Fiat radio removed should activate date/time setting via the trip meter stalk.

 

A dealer ought to be able to do this for you (at a price), or multiecuscan plus a laptop will allow you to carry out the procedure for yourself, possibly at about the same cost.

 

Caveat - this is my (advised) understanding, and carrying out a proxi align via the cheapest multiecuscan interface is not recommended, but generally seems to work.

 

I have multiecuscan, and it is most useful in configuring and diagnosing most Fiat group vehicles at a near-dealer level.

[Derek Uzzell]

witzend - 2018-11-03 9:53 PM

 

I'm not sure I understand but to alter my clock I press end of r/h stalk to select clock then same for hrs and mins then use up down buttons in dash to lower right of steering column to go higher or lower with numbers

 

Adjusting my 2015 Ducato’s date and time readouts does not involve pressing the end of the right-hand steering-column stalk - the process just comprises use of the dashboard’s MODE button and the adjacent up and down buttons. The procedure is reasonably well described in the Ducato handbook and (as far as I’m aware) applies to all ‘standard’ Ducato X250/X290 models.

 

Details of your motorhome would be useful. I refer you to the relevant paragraphs in my posting of 2 November 2018 7:41 AM here

 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/interior-rear-view-mirror/50597/

[Deneb]

I don't think a dealer proxy align will resolve the situation, since as I understand it the dealer software used by Fiat is only intended to re-establish or maintain the specification of the vehicle as it left the factory, or to add accessories which have already been "built in" to the body computer, but not installed.

 

MultiECUscan does include the functionality to query the body computer configuration and enable or disable various nodes on the vehicle network, but I'm not sure that even this will resolve the clock issue, although it may enable the Unconnect radio unit to be removed from the network so that its absence is not reported as a fault on diagnostic scans.

 

The problem as I understand it is that, for vehicles fitted with the Uconnect radio, certain functions are removed from the body computer and dashboard ECUs and implemented in the radio ECU. The real solution is to order a vehicle without a factory fitted radio, but with the "radio prep" option. These vehicles are supplied with a differently configured body computer, dashboard and wiring loom, so that an aftermarket radio can be fitted as a standalone system, with no integration into the vehicles CAN network.

 

I may be wrong, but I'm led to believe that the only way to transfer the lost menu functions (the clock setting facility is only one of them) is to obtain a new body computer from Fiat. These are specifically programmed to the individual vehicle, so would need to be configured without the Uconnect functionality. Certain features are set in stone at the point of programming the body computer, meaning that it may be possible to add features to your vehicle if you are lucky enough to have the functions already programmed into, but not enabled, in the original BCU, but attempting changes that were not included in the specification of the unit at point of configuration by the factory is never going to work. A new instrument cluster and wiring harness may also be needed, if so I expect the latter would prove particularly problematic. Expect the cost to be upwards of £2K for parts alone, plus labour.

 

If you search the internet, there is some information on various sites and forums regarding the difficulty of replacing a Uconnect radio with an aftermarket unit and retaining some functionality of the original system, but the information I have seen relating to the clock suggests the only realistic answer found was to reinstall the Uconnect radio temporarily to change the time, then refit the aftermarket unit.

 

Having said that, it is a while since I looked into all this, and it might be worth checking with the manufacturers of various CAN interface units to see if they have produced anything to overcome this. Connects2 are one such manufacturer.

 

Did you replace the Uconnect purely to obtain a better satnav, or were there other aspect with which you were dissatisfied? I was aware of the limitations of the Uconnect satnav implementation before I ordered my van, but specified the Uconnect radio because I wanted the built in reversing camera, USB and aux inputs, CD player and the vehicle menu functions on the touchscreen. Incidentally, the clock on my unit auto updates both for DST and location, so I have never needed to change it for DST or when travelling abroad.

 

I use a separate Garmin satnav for navigation, which I mount on the tablet holder above the radio.

[Laurence]

Well thank you all for your responses - any more thoughts would obviously be welcome.

 

Derek - my original post made clear that, the way my van is configured, this function does not come up on the MODE button. Certain functions do, but not the Time function. Trust me, I have read the handbook before posting. Also, you ask about details of my van, and I did read the thread you linked me to before my posting and when I joined. I thought that the third paragraph of my OP provided plenty of detail - please let me know what more you want and I will gladly provide it.

 

Robin - thank you, I will follow this up.

 

Deneb - thank you for your detailed thoughts. I fear you may be absolutely correct on this and your advice is close to that of the Fiat helpdesk, although I was hoping that someone may have found a workaround. I ended up with the UConnect because we bought from stock (huge saving in October/November last year when dealer was trying to make room for arrival of 2018 vans) and it was already fitted. I agree with you that this is not something I would have included had I been ordering from the factory. Not only is it a very limited satnav with a tiny screen, but all the other functions are quite limited - what do you expect for a 2din piece of equipment that costs about £300? I can understand that it might work better on a coachbuilt where the GPS receiver is right in the windscreen, but on an A Class it is so far back that the (small and cheap) fixed GPS receiver is well into the body of the MH. Crazy to fit it really, particularly as Laika fit a separate 7" reversing camera screen on the dash. Yes, the UConnect had a USB input, but so does the Pioneer. Anyway, thanks for your thoughts, and I will follow up about the CAN interface manufacturers.

 

Regards

[Derek Uzzell]

Laurence - 2018-11-04 6:36 PM

 

...Derek - my original post made clear that, the way my van is configured, this function does not come up on the MODE button. Certain functions do, but not the Time function. Trust me, I have read the handbook before posting. Also, you ask about details of my van, and I did read the thread you linked me to before my posting and when I joined. I thought that the third paragraph of my OP provided plenty of detail - please let me know what more you want and I will gladly provide it...

 

 

Laurence

 

My posting that you refer to was directed at ‘witzend’ not you.

 

I thought this was plain, but I can understand that, as a newcomer to this forum, you might not have appreciated this.

 

 

 

 

[paulmold]

Mine works from the mode button but not with engine running. Perhaps you are trying with engine on? Just a thought.

[Deneb]

paulmold - 2018-11-05 9:12 AM

 

Mine works from the mode button but not with engine running. Perhaps you are trying with engine on? Just a thought.

 

For vehicles fitted with the Uconnect 5.0 (VP2) radio, certain vehicle settings are transferred to the radio unit and have to be accessed via the radio menus. They are no longer accessible through the mode button on the dashboard. This is by design.

 

It is still the case that certain settings are not available in the radio menu with the engine running. Again this is by design for driver safety reasons.

 

But, on a vehicle fitted with the Uconnect 5.0 radio which is closely integrated into the vehicle's network bus and communicates with other ECUs, removal of the radio means that access to the settings controlled by the radio is no longer possible since the means of accessing them has been removed.

[Laurence]

Deneb - I think you have summed it up here and I guess if there was a workaround you would know it. I guess this thread stops here, thank you for your input.

 

Regards,

[Robinhood]

Deneb - 2018-11-04 10:32 AM

 

I don't think a dealer proxy align will resolve the situation, ......

 

I'm sure I've read several references to the proxi align process being used to resolve this issue; this is the one I can find quickly:

 

 

https://www.fiatforum.com/ducato/440756-ducato-x290-changing-radio-sat-nav.html

 

(Don't get bogged down in the SWC debate, there is an update on resolving the date/time issue

via proxi align i n there)

 

There are also rumours that this function can be carried out via multiecuscan, but I can't verify that at the moment.

 

My previous post referred to the trip meter stalk whereas, of course, it should have been the "mode" buttons. I blame the error on being jet-lagged and in New Zealand.

[Deneb]

Interesting. If I was going to try that, I'd do it with MES rather than dealer software. I'd make a copy of the existing proxi file and save it as a backup, then remove the radio node from the body computer and do an align. At least then you have a copy of the original proxi file to restore in the event that the new align doesn't solve the issue or introduces other problems.

 

Edit: Just to add, you'll need a fairly recent copy of MES because the Uconnect units weren't recognised until the last two or three versions.

[euroserv]

Hi,

 

I am pretty sure that the proxi alignment procedure should work but if it does not, Pioneer may be able to help.

I fitted a Kenwood unit in my Fiat Scudo and this disabled some of the menu features on the dashboard such as the trip computer and the ability to change the time on the clock. I found a document in the Kenwood pack that discussed the different menus that are available through the CAN interface on the vehicle and a combination of presses of various radio remote control buttons was needed to set the clock but it could still be done. You would need details of the procedure and if not supplied with your head unit; should be available from Pioneer.

Hopefully the proxi alignment will sort it out though.

N

[Laurence]

Thanks Nick,

 

Very useful, I will look into that with Pioneer.

 

Regards,

 

[witzend]

Derek Uzzell - 2018-11-04 8:03 AM

Adjusting my 2015 Ducato’s date and time readouts does not involve pressing the end of the right-hand steering-column stalk /

 

I have to to change from hrs to mins

[Derek Uzzell]

witzend - 2018-11-08 11:15 PM

 

Derek Uzzell - 2018-11-04 8:03 AM

Adjusting my 2015 Ducato’s date and time readouts does not involve pressing the end of the right-hand steering-column stalk /

 

I have to to change from hrs to mins

 

I don’t understand your comment.

 

With my 2015 Ducato X290 the steering-column’s right-hand stalk operates the windscreen wipers/washers system. The stalk also has a button on its end and that button is marked “TRIP”. The TRIP button operates my Ducato’s Trip Computer, but it has no effect on the time (clock) value that’s shown on the dashboard display. Adjusting the display’s time value requires the procedure I described in my posting of 4 November 2018 8:03 AM above and does not involve he steering-column’s right-hand stalk.

 

I’ve looked through your earlier postings and - although you’ve said that you own a Ducato X250 with 2.2litre motor - I haven’t found any other details about the vehicle. As it has a 2.2litre motor it must be a fairly early ‘Euro 4’ X250 and the relevant Ducato Owner Manual describes the procedure for setting the clock as follows:

 

"Setting the clock (Set time)

 

This function enables to set the clock through two submenus: “Time” and “Format”.

 

To carry out the adjustment, proceed as follows:

– briefly press the MODE button and two submenus (Time and Format) are displayed;

– press button (Up arrow) or (Down arrow) to move between the two submenus;

– once you have selected a submenu to amend, press MODE briefly;

– when accessing the “Hour” submenu: briefly press button MODE: the display shows the “hours” flashing;

– press button (Up arrow) or (Down arrow) to adjust;

– briefly press button MODE: “minutes”starts flashing on the display;

– press button (Up arrow) or (Down arrow) to adjust;

– when accessing the “Format” submenu: briefly press button MODE : the previously set display format will flash on the display;

– press button (Up arrow) or (Down arrow) to select “24h” or “12h”.

When you have made the required settings, briefly press the MODE button to go back to the submenu screen or hold the button down to go back to the main menu screen without storing the new settings.

– press the MODE button again for a while to return to the standard screen or to the main menu according to where you are in the menu.”

 

No mention is made of the steering-column’s right-hand stalk being involved, and the stalk-functionality of a Euro 4 Ducato X250 seems to be the same as that of my 2015 Ducato X290’s right-hand stalk.

 

 

[Deneb]

Found a thread on the MultiEcuScan forums that admittedly relates to swapping instrument clusters on a Fiat 500 rather than the uConnect radio on the Ducato, but it does contain input from a Fiat technician in Italy, and does seem to confirm what I had previously been told.

 

It has been going on for nearly 2 years, but in summary -

 

According to the Fiat technician, the Fiat dealer diagnostic tools Examiner and Witech have no facility to edit the original proxy configuration. You would need to use MES to remove the Unconnect radio from the proxy file in the body computer and write the new file back (Proxi align).

 

The thread is about trying to install a newer type instrument cluster with TFT display on vehicles fitted from the factory with an analog cluster. However, what has apparently been discovered from that is, if an instrument cluster from a vehicle fitted with a uConnect radio is swapped into a vehicle without that radio, it only has the restricted menu functions from the uConnect equipped car available, i.e. the ability to change date and time, autolock settings, etc, were found to no longer be available on the car it was fitted into. The Fiat technician suggests that the instrument cluster from a vehicle fitted with a uConnect radio only contains a shortened menu, due to the remaining items being contained in the radio.

 

Performing a proxy alignment hasn't restored the original menus, and a few posters have been attempting to edit various bytes in the proxy-file to try and reconfigure the cluster, without success. The only way they've managed to change the date and time is by connecting a uConnect radio to the vehicle's OBD socket as follows:

 

Uconnect 5 pin out:

-PIN 44......... + 12V

-PIN 43......... - 12v

-PIN 12......... CAN A

-PIN 2........... CAN B

 

The menus in the radio can then be used to change the date and time, and the radio disconnected afterwards.

 

As I say, this relates to a Fiat 500 so I can't say with any certainty that the Ducato is the same, but it does suggest that if you were going to try a proxy alignment you'd need to use MES rather than a Fiat dealer.

 

It would be interesting to know if a proxy alignment does resolve the issue on the Ducato though.

 

A possibly easier option might be to make up a lead to temporarily connect your uConnect, if you still have it, to the OBD socket as above.

[Laurence]

Deneb - 2018-11-09 3:05 PM

However, what has apparently been discovered from that is, if an instrument cluster from a vehicle fitted with a uConnect radio is swapped into a vehicle without that radio, it only has the restricted menu functions from the uConnect equipped car available, i.e. the ability to change date and time, autolock settings, etc, were found to no longer be available on the car it was fitted into. The Fiat technician suggests that the instrument cluster from a vehicle fitted with a uConnect radio only contains a shortened menu, due to the remaining items being contained in the radio.

 

Well that is certainly what I have found with mine. It's interesting that some others have experienced the same problem, but depressing that the potential solutions seem so involved.

 

Grateful you are still looking into the issue Deneb, and I am following up the leads you have already suggested.

 

Regards,