Guest starspirit Posted February 6, 2007 Posted February 6, 2007 Truth or con job? I reckon the bible and all of it's counterparts in other religions are the biggest con job in the entire history of mankind? Started, possibly, by well meaning (or just greedy if I am cynical?) people trying to bring order to (or simply to grab more than their share of?) an increasingly uncontrolable human race, they have been manipulated into causing far more evil and greed that they ever have goodness and caring & support. Let me just add that whilst I fully respect anyone else's need for, and faith in, their own religious beliefs - I just don't buy it myself.
Guest starspirit Posted February 6, 2007 Posted February 6, 2007 Sorry Mr Mod & folks - this should be in Chatterbox.
Guest starspirit Posted February 6, 2007 Posted February 6, 2007 Thank you - you are a very nice man / lady?
Dave Newell Posted February 6, 2007 Posted February 6, 2007 Richard, you are a braver man than me picking this subject for general discussion. I thought the politics was bad enough but religion too? You really are a glutton for punishment. D.
Tony Jones Posted February 6, 2007 Posted February 6, 2007 In spite of my "day job" (see profile) I'm not going to rise to the bait here on the Forum, but if anyone's seriously wondering about Christ, the Bible, and all that stuff drop me a PM and we can chat that way. Meanwhile, enjoy your debate folks! Tony
howie Posted February 6, 2007 Posted February 6, 2007 Hi I,m not in a position to go into this subject at the moment, but coming from a strong religous background I would like to point out that we should view religion and our own personal beliefs as two entirely separate things. I agree with Richard that religion as such can be manipulated by those who might gain political or personal gain, or simply use it as a tool to enforce their own views upon the rest of us, but the only thing that matters is how we accept our own beliefs and concepts and what God really means to us, and how Christian virtues and guidelines can help us through our everyday lives. Not everyone will agree, but for myself and many others, it is the bedrock our lives are based on, and helps us with any decisions we have to make, and how we conduct our lives and those we come in contact with.
Guest Frank Wilkinson Posted February 6, 2007 Posted February 6, 2007 What is the point of a discussion like this, apart from wishing to stir up discontent and animosity? Religion is the one subject that cannot be argued about logically. You either have faith or you don't and no amount of hot air on this site will change anyone's mind.Let's refrain from this kind of stirring.
michele Posted February 6, 2007 Posted February 6, 2007 Well , i suppose there are two way's to look at it. Debate it or Argue it.........as long as everyone does not jumo down peoples throats we should all manage to live another day...... We should all start the post with DEBATE ONLY............. then we wouldn't be jumping to ill conceived conclusions about each other..maybe I,m right ..then again maybe I,m wrong ..... *-)
Guest starspirit Posted February 6, 2007 Posted February 6, 2007 Only Frank would see it as stirring I guess. Personally speaking I don't need anything other than general decency, integrity and honesty to run my life within the law, by but I am always interested in the point of view of others and this seemed as good a place as any to ask? I have a great respect for your views Howie and in many ways I kinda envy those with faith - but as you say you've either got it or you have not and I - in common with a very large and growing segment of the nation, have not
howie Posted February 6, 2007 Posted February 6, 2007 Not trying to put the fear of God into you Richard, but one day we will all end up in that great campsite in the sky, so look at it this way. While Michele, Tony and myself are sat watching another glorious sunset, sipping our wine and enjoying all this from our prime pitches with hardstanding, electric hookups and every other services you can think of laid on, you i,m afraid will spend eternity arguing the toss with Frank down on that muddy little patch at the the dark end of the field next to the bins and ever overflowing open sewage outlet. If my re. to Frank doesn,t move you, then redemption is truly beyond you. ;-) You have already said that decency, integrity and honesty is part and parcel of your life, and apart from faith, you already have the makings of a fine Christian soldier so I don,t think we should give up on you yet. In the meantime I shall bask in the smug warm glow that comes from taking the moral high ground and pray that sinners such as yourselves will finally see the light. Amen *-)
mark lambert Posted February 6, 2007 Posted February 6, 2007 howie - 2007-02-06 7:39 PM Not trying to put the fear of God into you Richard, but one day we will all end up in that great campsite in the sky, so look at it this way. While Michele, Tony and myself are sat watching another glorious sunset, sipping our wine and enjoying all this from our prime pitches with hardstanding, electric hookups and every other services you can think of laid on, you i,m afraid will spend eternity arguing the toss with Frank down on that muddy little patch at the the dark end of the field next to the bins and ever overflowing open sewage outlet. If my re. to Frank doesn,t move you, then redemption is truly beyond you. ;-) You have already said that decency, integrity and honesty is part and parcel of your life, and apart from faith, you already have the makings of a fine Christian soldier so I don,t think we should give up on you yet. In the meantime I shall bask in the smug warm glow that comes from taking the moral high ground and pray that sinners such as yourselves will finally see the light. Amen *-) hey dont forget me!! i'll be watching the sunset and drinking a glass of wine too.
Guest starspirit Posted February 6, 2007 Posted February 6, 2007 That's interesting Howie. So does the fact that you have faith in your God entitle you to a better pitch in eternity, always assuming such a site exists (which I don't)? I know that you are not taking the moral high ground etc and I hope you will take this in the spirit of curiosity that I intend and not as an insult or disrespectful but................ Does the fact that have faith in a God make you a better man than me in the eyes of said God - were he to exist?
Guest peter Posted February 6, 2007 Posted February 6, 2007 howie - 2007-02-06 3:06 PM Hi I,m not in a position to go into this subject at the moment, but coming from a strong religous background I would like to point out that we should view religion and our own personal beliefs as two entirely separate things. I agree with Richard that religion as such can be manipulated by those who might gain political or personal gain, or simply use it as a tool to enforce their own views upon the rest of us, but the only thing that matters is how we accept our own beliefs and concepts and what God really means to us, and how Christian virtues and guidelines can help us through our everyday lives. Not everyone will agree, but for myself and many others, it is the bedrock our lives are based on, and helps us with any decisions we have to make, and how we conduct our lives and those we come in contact with.I agree with you Howie. I'm not that religeous but think the Ten Comandments are a pretty damn good code to live by.
Guest peter Posted February 6, 2007 Posted February 6, 2007 Frank Wilkinson - 2007-02-06 5:47 PMWhat is the point of a discussion like this, apart from wishing to stir up discontent and animosity? Religion is the one subject that cannot be argued about logically. You either have faith or you don't and no amount of hot air on this site will change anyone's mind.Let's refrain from this kind of stirring.I think Richard ought to get out more Frank. (lol)
Brian Kirby Posted February 6, 2007 Posted February 6, 2007 Quite fun, this, isn't it? It seems to me one has two fundamental choices: God, or infinity. If time/space is infinite there can, logically, be no God, since infinity cannot, by definition have been created. For creation it would have to have had a beginning, so an end, so cannot be infinite. If, on the other hand you opt for God, you are obliged to accept that everything has a beginning and an end (oh yes, and a purpose) and must therefore accept the idea of creation (I'm not talking American creationism here!).However, without wishing to offend, who, then created God? If the answer is that no one did, because God has always existed, is God merely another name/concept to explain, to us frail humans, the idea of infinity?
Guest starspirit Posted February 6, 2007 Posted February 6, 2007 Thanks Peter - I will try to get out more as soon as I find my spirit of adventure, meanwhile I am finding this topic quite a mini adventure in itself with the differing and interseting points made by some of our thinking contributors. I have no time for personal attacks and the 'my view is the only one' school of thought and I fully expected to be critisced by the predictable - but that in no way detracts form the interesting points made by most, so do please continue. Meanwhile I do hope that I have not offended you Howie as you come across to me as one of this site's most decent and genuine guys.
Guest Frank Wilkinson Posted February 6, 2007 Posted February 6, 2007 starspirit - 2007-02-06 10:48 PM Thanks Peter - I will try to get out more as soon as I find my spirit of adventure, meanwhile I am finding this topic quite a mini adventure in itself with the differing and interseting points made by some of our thinking contributors. I have no time for personal attacks and the 'my view is the only one' school of thought and I fully expected to be critisced by the predictable - but that in no way detracts form the interesting points made by most, so do please continue. Meanwhile I do hope that I have not offended you Howie as you come across to me as one of this site's most decent and genuine guys. No time for personal attacks! That's rich! You are the master of the snide innuendo and cannot resist sniping away at every opportunity as the above post proves once again. For God's sake man, get a life and give it a rest!
Guest starspirit Posted February 6, 2007 Posted February 6, 2007 And pray tell me how the quote contains a personal attack Frank and at whom is the alleged attack directed?
Guest peter Posted February 6, 2007 Posted February 6, 2007 starspirit - 2007-02-06 10:48 PM Thanks Peter - I will try to get out more as soon as I find my spirit of adventure, meanwhile I am finding this topic quite a mini adventure in itself with the differing and interseting points made by some of our thinking contributors. I have no time for personal attacks and the 'my view is the only one' school of thought and I fully expected to be critisced by the predictable - but that in no way detracts form the interesting points made by most, so do please continue. Meanwhile I do hope that I have not offended you Howie as you come across to me as one of this site's most decent and genuine guys. It's not a personal attack Richard. Just an observation of why someone would start a thread of this nature. What was the thought process?.
Guest Frank Wilkinson Posted February 6, 2007 Posted February 6, 2007 starspirit - 2007-02-06 11:12 PM And pray tell me how the quote contains a personal attack Frank and at whom is the alleged attack directed? You simply cannot stop can you? Even when the moderator threatened to ban you for constantly and purposely goading me (and bragging about it) you have to then post a new thread 'Is it me' which rehashed the entire thing until the moderator had the good sense to completely delete it.You seem incapable of entering any discussion without remarks such as 'and I fully expected to be critisced by the predictable'.So come on then - who are 'the predictable'?You obviously don't like me, but that's fine, I couldn't care less but do us all a favour and grow up and stop taking every opportunity to have snide and creepy little digs at me. I'm getting heartily sick of you and I'd be very grateful if you'd call it a day.
Guest starspirit Posted February 6, 2007 Posted February 6, 2007 I know it's not a personal attack Peter - I recognise your style of humour which is not too unlike my own at times. It was Bilh in his global warming posting who raised the point of view of religion being a big con and as I too have always kinda believed in this theory I just thought it would be interesting to see how everyone else felt. I knew it would be controversial and I expected to be attacked but I also hoped to learn a bit from the discussion. Mr Mod has not seen fit to ban the topic - or me - yet - so can and should it be such a taboo subject?
Guest starspirit Posted February 6, 2007 Posted February 6, 2007 Frank I don't hate you - I don't even dislike you - you are probably a decent guy like the rest of us on here - but I do sometimes find it hard to accept your predictably dogmatic and rather rude attitude. I ask again just what is it in the quote that is an attack and at whom do you consider is it directed? Just for the record the Moderator has at no time threatened to ban me. He did ask me to stop deliberately goading you and I did stop. I do however have the right to reply to your attacks and if you don't like that, well please just stop being so offensive.
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