Terrytraveller Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 Tonight its going to freeze again, we need to keep the MH warm to stop the 12 year Old Malt from freezing up! What mode of heating is cheaper? Using a Truma Convector fire on its lowest setting, that’s 30 grams per hour Gaslow system Autogas at 38pence per ltr = 2.28 pence per hour Calor Gas £13.49 per 6 Kg bottle = 6.78 pence per hour Electricity 360 watts at 7.572 per Kw = 2.77 pence per hour If I have my calculations correct – it surprised me too. Regards Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 I think the 30gm/h is for the pilot light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrytraveller Posted February 7, 2007 Author Share Posted February 7, 2007 It hasn't got one of those, or are you joshing? What I have noticed is when first started all 4 burners ignite, after about a couple of mins when the thermosat, bottom right hand side of the convector gets warm, all burners bar one switch off. The fridge is opposite the convector fire, when we first had the MH, the heater sometimes wouldn't turn down to low, even though the control was set on the number one setting. The fault turned out to be caused by the cold draft coming from the fridge vent outside, under the fridge right onto the convector fire thermostat. Sealing the fridge aperature rectified the problem. We leave it on all night, in the freezing weather it keeps the interior around 50f. Regards Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derek500 Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 Terrytraveller - 2007-02-07 7:55 PM Tonight its going to freeze again, we need to keep the MH warm to stop the 12 year Old Malt from freezing up! What mode of heating is cheaper? Using a Truma Convector fire on its lowest setting, that’s 30 grams per hour Gaslow system Autogas at 38pence per ltr = 2.28 pence per hour Calor Gas £13.49 per 6 Kg bottle = 6.78 pence per hour Electricity 360 watts at 7.572 per Kw = 2.77 pence per hour If I have my calculations correct – it surprised me too. Regards Terry Come to Spain Terry, Repsol Gas only 11.80€ (£8.26) for 12kg bottle - only £4.13 for 6kg. Therefore only 2.07 pence per hour. Mind you it's not going to freeze here tonight so you wouldn't need the heating on anyway!! BTW my electricity is 7.09 pence per KWh, not much difference there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrytraveller Posted February 7, 2007 Author Share Posted February 7, 2007 Hi Derek, You know how to make a chap jealous, at least now I am turning from Blue to Green - Best wishes Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
messerschmitt owner Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Terrytraveller - 2007-02-07 8:09 PM Hi Derek, You know how to make a chap jealous, at least now I am turning from Blue to Green - Best wishes Terry I hope that's butane you're using and not propane - cos the propane liqifies at about 0C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Terry: Just my little joke. Campbell: It's vice versa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Terry, This reminds me of a question I was wondering about but I'll add it to your thread here if I may: I am interested in working out what the break even point might be for paying for electric hookup on sites where it's an option. I have 13Kg cylinders which cost me about £17 so more expensive than your refillable but not sufficiently more expensive to make it worth my while paying for refillables. I can use the gas to keep my heating going (plus fridge of course) or I can buy electricity at £?? per day. The question is, if I assume that the heating is consuming 2KWH how much would that cost me if I stick to gas? I don't know what the KWH equivalent of propane is. Anyone any idea? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrytraveller Posted February 8, 2007 Author Share Posted February 8, 2007 Hi Ralph, I was never any good at mathematics at school, but based these calculations on the Truma 3002 gas convector fire. The manufacturers specs quote 30 to 280 gm/hr with a top output equivalent to 3Kw per hour. So in theory by dividing 280 (max gas consumption) into 3Kw (rated output), you get 10.71 watts for each gram of gas. If the lowest convector gas setting output is using gas at 30 gm/hr, then 30 gm/hr times 10.71 watts equals 321.3 watts of heat for 30 grams of gas. You see what I mean about me and mathematics, it worked out to 360 watts equalled 30 grams of gas yesterday! So you need to know what the gas consumption is of each appliance you are using, also if in the case of the hot water boiler not only its gas consumption, but how long it is before the thermostat turns it off as water temp is reached. My original computation does give a rough idea. Regarding price of Gaslow refillable installation, the cost never entered the equation as it was the convenience of obtaining gas all over Europe. We used ‘le cube’ gas before, but as soon as you move out of France you have the same problem with gas supplies, as we are away for up to 4 months a year Autogas was the only solution. Regards Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mansell Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 hi, Can anyone tell me how to change Kgs to lits. so that I can understand how to work out the true cost of filling my tank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 mansell - 2007-02-08 12:46 PM hi, Can anyone tell me how to change Kgs to lits. so that I can understand how to work out the true cost of filling my tank Roughly 2 litres per kilo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mansell Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Thank you, I like things in old money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark lambert Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 iv'e just weighed 2 litres of water and the weight was 2 kilo's (1 kilo per litre) i weighed it in a 2 litre bottle after taking into account the empty bottle weight, my scales cant be that far out ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrytraveller Posted February 8, 2007 Author Share Posted February 8, 2007 Hi Mark, I think youv'e just proved there is more energy in LPG than there is in water - that's a real pity, it could have been the answer to our energy problems. Regards Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John H Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Hi Mark, LPG is lighter than water. Propane is 1.96 litres/kilo & Butane is 1.72 litres/kilo. I think Autogas is a mixture of both so you would need to know what the ratio was to work out the litre/kilo rate. Regards, John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark lambert Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 :$ :$ :$ :$ :$ :$ :$ thats all i will say on th subject Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark lambert Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 mark lambert - 2007-02-08 3:40 PM :$ :$ :$ :$ :$ :$ :$ thats all i will say on th subject what a plonker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyishuk Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 An electric heater can switch itself off when a reasonable above zero temp is reached. Thus use no fuel ! What you need is a Maplin energy meter that reads out in kilowatt hours / amps and you can work out the actual consumption *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 mansell - 2007-02-08 2:12 PM Thank you, I like things in old money In that case here's Terry's figures again: Gaslow system Autogas at 5s 7d per pint = 5 1/2d per hour Calor Gas £13 9s 9 1/2d per 13.3 lb bottle = 6.78 pence per hour Electricity .48 horse power at 12s 2d per horsepower = 6 1/2d per hour :-D :-S B-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 mark lambert - 2007-02-08 2:40 PM iv'e just weighed 2 litres of water and the weight was 2 kilo's (1 kilo per litre) i weighed it in a 2 litre bottle after taking into account the empty bottle weight, my scales cant be that far out ? I suppose the obvious question is... why? I was taught at school that a litre of water weighs a kilo so it's nice to know you've proved it after all these years :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Just found as web site that tells me that propane is 13.87 kWh/kg At £17 for a 13 kilo bottle this works out to around 10.6p per kWh. This would obviously be more for smaller bottles and less for refillable. So in cold weather when the heating never goes off it could be cheaper to pay the site for the electricity? (I think...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark lambert Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Ralph - 2007-02-08 5:23 PM mark lambert - 2007-02-08 2:40 PM iv'e just weighed 2 litres of water and the weight was 2 kilo's (1 kilo per litre) i weighed it in a 2 litre bottle after taking into account the empty bottle weight, my scales cant be that far out ? I suppose the obvious question is... why? I was taught at school that a litre of water weighs a kilo so it's nice to know you've proved it after all these years :-D i suppose its because i'm one of those people who doesn't understand binary!! :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 tonyishuk - 2007-02-08 4:39 PM What you need is a Maplin energy meter that reads out in kilowatt hours / amps How much do they cost? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 http://www.maplin.co.uk/Search.aspx?criteria=energy%20meter&source=15&SD=Y But I bought mine from Lidle for about 7 quid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philman Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 I know we are getting a bit O/T here but I have one of the Maplin meters, they are very good, price has gone up a lot since I bought mine. I measure all of my electrical equipment at home and make a little table, with all the current and power measurements, which I print out and take. I can see then which equipment I can use at any time once I know the campsite rating, Very useful, I haven't tripped a site supply for years whereas before I had the meter it was a common occurence. Phil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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