touring abroad

[zizou]

I will be touring abroad April/May for the first time alone for any length of time and I am a bit concerned about obtaining gas for heating etc. I carry 2 bottles and get the impression that once they run out I get cold, and grubby!

Also can anyone clarify various motorway tolls in France Italy and Switzerland as I seem to have been charged under different sets of rules according to the whim of the toll booth operator.

 

Finally, as a female who has no electrical know how, all these recent letters in MMM about polarity,changing wiring,etc have been worrying me. I have an 05 reg Swift Sundance and if anyone can point me in the direction of a past magazine article, or a motorcaravan dealer in the North East who can help me and supply me with the equipment needed and how to use it I would be grateful.

[Guest starspirit]

Hi Zizou,

 

Welcome to the madhouse!

 

Where are you going and for how long?

Do you have gas or diesel or mains heating?

What size and colour are your gas bottles?

 

A 6kg bottle lasts us up to 20 days without heating and hot water (just fridge and cooking) but as little as 8 days with everything.

 

We don't use mains, or sites very often, but if you take an electric kettle, and have mains heating and hot water and use mainly site hook ups your gas will last a lot longer.

 

You can get a device fitted that both checks and corrects mains polarity and any decent caravan or motor home dealer or auto electrician should know what needs to be done.

 

All tolls seem to be at the whim of the operator and unless your command of their language is very good you have little choice but to pay up and move on!

 

If you bought your van from a dealer wouldn't he be a good place to start?

 

Any copy of MMM or similar will have lots of adverts for dealers and people who can advise, alter and improve your systems.

[terry1956]

Hi there, don,t know much about the gas, but if you are using sites to overnight it may pay to use elec for heating, even the free sites have elec points that will allow a battery top up for around 2 to 3 euros, this will cut down on gas use.

We have found that tolls in france have gone up in places, And that most glass our hymer as glass 2 the second hignest, On the trip into spain we used the toll roads for a short hop of 65 km,s and got a bill of 21 euros, On the trip back we used the toll free roads. In spain they glass the hymer as glass 1, due to it being single rear axle and not tag (they run on weight )

Don,t know plans, but the cost of toll roads from the ports are not to bad, and of course there are know tolls on german etc.

 

terry

 

[terry1956]

Hi there, don,t know much about the gas, but if you are using sites to overnight it may pay to use elec for heating, even the free sites have elec points that will allow a battery top up for around 2 to 3 euros, this will cut down on gas use.

We have found that tolls in france have gone up in places, And that most glass our hymer as glass 2 the second hignest, On the trip into spain we used the toll roads for a short hop of 65 km,s and got a bill of 21 euros, On the trip back we used the toll free roads. In spain they glass the hymer as glass 1, due to it being single rear axle and not tag (they run on weight )

Don,t know plans, but the cost of toll roads from the ports are not to bad, and of course there are know tolls on german etc.

 

terry

 

[terry1956]

Hi there, don,t know much about the gas, but if you are using sites to overnight it may pay to use elec for heating, even the free sites have elec points that will allow a battery top up for around 2 to 3 euros, this will cut down on gas use.

We have found that tolls in france have gone up in places, And that most glass our hymer as glass 2 the second hignest, On the trip into spain we used the toll roads for a short hop of 65 km,s and got a bill of 21 euros, On the trip back we used the toll free roads. In spain they glass the hymer as glass 1, due to it being single rear axle and not tag (they run on weight )

Don,t know plans, but the cost of toll roads from the ports are not to bad, and of course there are know tolls on german etc.

 

terry

 

[derek500]

I have a little gas saving tip if you've got an automatic 12v/240v/gas fridge.

 

I always used to leave mine on 'auto', but when I was travelling a fair distance in a day and stopping off for an hour or so twice a day, after the 15 minute petrol station safety timer, the fridge changed over to gas.

 

Now I put mine on to 12v during the day so when I park up I'm not wasting gas and the battery has plenty of time to recharge on the continuation of the journey.

 

Just have to remember to put it back on auto or gas when you park up at night.

[twooks]

You should find that your van has the necessary gizmos to check polarity and to protect from any problems. You should get a 2-pin continental connector - available at any caravan accessory shop - and you could talk to them about adapting a connection to handle reverse polarity. Because we are so frightened of being sued in the UK they probably won't be prepared to actually reverse the wires for you - but should be prepared to tell or even show you how to do it.

Whereabouts in the north east are you?

 

B-)

[Brian Kirby]

zizou - 2007-02-10 12:30 PM I will be touring abroad April/May for the first time alone for any length of time and I am a bit concerned about obtaining gas for heating etc. I carry 2 bottles and get the impression that once they run out I get cold, and grubby! Also can anyone clarify various motorway tolls in France Italy and Switzerland as I seem to have been charged under different sets of rules according to the whim of the toll booth operator. Finally, as a female who has no electrical know how, all these recent letters in MMM about polarity,changing wiring,etc have been worrying me. I have an 05 reg Swift Sundance and if anyone can point me in the direction of a past magazine article, or a motorcaravan dealer in the North East who can help me and supply me with the equipment needed and how to use it I would be grateful.

Where are you going?  Across France and Switzerland into Italy?  It has some bearing on all possible answers.  Just for April/May, or for longer?

What size / weight is your van?  This is important for Switzerland, where , if below 3,500Kg (probable) you'll have to buy a 14 month validity vignette to use the autobahns, but if it's heavier, perversely, you can buy short term vignettes.  Try the Swiss National Tourist Office in London, or 2007 Caravan Club "Caravan Europe" sites guides for latest info.

What size gas locker does your van have?  If it will take 2 x 13Kg cylinders, and if both are full when you start, and you don't spend too long in the mountains, you should be OK.  If your max cylinder size is smaller, take one UK cylinder and buy a French cylinder en route.  You'll also need a pigtail (lyre) for the French cylinder, and a regulator if your van doesn't (unlikely) have the current style bulkhead mounted regulator.  Try supermarkets for both, Butagaz is fairly universally available.  Go for propane.  Use the French cylinder as soon as you get it, with the UK one as backup.  You may need to exchange the French one on the way back.

Toll rates will vary with vehicle size.  Most motorhomes on two axles (probably your Sundance) will go Class 2 in France.  Vignette for Switzerland.  Much lower tolls in Italy, but I think also Class 2.

Get a plug in circuit tester from a motorhome/caravan accessories shop (W4 or similar).  It'll tell you whether the polarity is right or wrong, and much more importantly, whether there is an earth.  If no earth, don't use that connection, just try another until you get one that has.  If none have, don't use the electricity, report this to site reception, and get them to refund your hook up charge.

For reversed polarity you need one male and one female CEE type (blue) in line connectors.  Cut 12" - 24" from the 'van end of your hook up cable, leaving the existing connectors in place on both remaining lengths.  Wire the new male connector onto the end of the long length of the cable.  It should now look just as it did before you shortened it and should have the same type of connector on the newly cut end as before.  This will now be your normal hook up for use when polarity is correct.  Now take the short length of cable and attach the remaining new connector to its cut end, but connect the brown wire to the - pin in the connector, and the blue wire to its + pin.  Connect the earth as normal.  You use this when the site connection is reversed polarity.  All reversed polarity means is that the site supply has the "+" where the "-" should be, and vice versa.  This means the current flows the wrong way round your van wiring, getting to switches/fuses on its way out, instead of on its way in.  Everything will work normally, but it is generally safer to have fuses and switches before the appliances/circuits, rather than after them.  By connecting the brown wire (normally the live, or positive) to the "-" terminal in the connector, and the blue wire (normally the neutral, or negative) to the "+" terminal, you have reversed the current flow at the connector, and thus reversed the polarity on that short link.

If, when you connect up on site, your tester indicates reversed polarity, unplug first at the site end, then at the van end, then plug in your short (cross wired) cable at the van, then connect your long cable onto the short one, and finally the re-connect the other end of the long cable at the site end.  Hey presto, you have reversed the reversed polarity, meaning it is restored back to "normal" in your van.  Don't worry about the cable itself, electricity is colour blind and doesn't care which colour cable it is going up/down!  If none of this makes sense, just gather up the bits and take them, with this explanation, to an electrician and ask him to do it for you.

You will need, as Twooks says, one continental type two pin connector.  By using the polarity reversing cable exclusively at the van end of the hook up, you can reverse the polarity whether you use the blue CEE, or continental, connection at the site end.  The short length should then stay high and dry away from possibly waterlogged ground.  And yes, despite what many think, either type of site connection can have reversed polarity.

[zizou]

I have a Truma dual heating/hot water system with 2 orange 6 or 7 kg weight gas, I am travelling to Le Marche in Italy via Luxembourg to avoid French autoroute tolls and " the pretty way" through Switzerland to avoid the 25 euro motorway tax, Im not as "tight "as this implies, I get bored on motorways and therefore sleepy.

[twooks]

Can't beat the pretty route, even tho French autoroutes are generally much better than the 'car parks' that double as motorways here.

[Perhaps that's why Teflon wants road pricing, heaven forbd we should have free parking >:-) ]

 

Anyway, back on topic, are you ok with your queries now??

 

B-)

[RoyH]

Suggest that buy John Wickersham's The Motorcaravan Manual, it cotains a wealth of information about 'vans and there is now another available which is

entitled ( I think) Motorhoming in Europe but I do not know the authors. Maybe someone else here does.

 

Happy travelling.

[Brian Kirby]

zizou - 2007-02-11 4:54 PM I have a Truma dual heating/hot water system with 2 orange 6 or 7 kg weight gas, I am travelling to Le Marche in Italy via Luxembourg to avoid French autoroute tolls and " the pretty way" through Switzerland to avoid the 25 euro motorway tax, Im not as "tight "as this implies, I get bored on motorways and therefore sleepy.

If you're down to 7Kg bottles, I'd say definately get another one while in France.  You could take the second UK cylinder as a last ditch backup, if you have room for it somewhere, but you'll need to keep it upright and strapped or wedged in place, just in case. 

You could look at the Twiny or Le Cube bottles, or even try Truma UK to see what the European supply position is with the lightweight BP Gas bottles in Europe.  The latter are supposed to be available in a number of countries and, I understand, to be exchangable anywhere they are on sale.  Since one bottle lasts for some time, there is no need for panic when the first runs out, and if you know where the exchanges can be obtained, you should be able to steer around to a supplier as you travel.

If you're going into the Marche hills, be warned, they're mountains!  Not guaranteed to get warm until well into May.

If you avoid the autostrade you'll find the going a bit slow, mainly because you end up going through most of the towns.  Pleasant enough, but Italian parking habits do make transiting a bit of a test of patience!

[Philman]

Zizou, there is another way into Italy that avoids all tolls and is on motorways and main roads all the way. The route is via Luxembourg and then down through Germany on the A8 to Ulm, A7 to a little way past Kempten then across to Fussen, into Austria via Reutte over the Fern Pass to Landeck and then over the Reschenpass, both very easy passes and quite suitable for large outfits. Once in Italy there is an excellent road to Bolzano and then you can join the Italian motorway A22 and go as far south as you wish.

 

Phil.

[RonB]

Sorry Brian but vignettes (windscreen stickers) are not applicable to vehicles over 3500kg in Switzerland. For heavy vehicles you need documentation obtainable from the Swiss border custom office, and to my knowledge nowhere else. However, should you want to extend your stay you can do this at any Swiss main post office armed with your paperwork.

 

I should add a warning regarding the Swiss Tourist Office website. They will sell you a vignette without any warning on the booking form that it is illegal for use on vehicles over 3500kg. Be careful.