bounty hunter Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 Posting this as it may help someone else. I am an enthusiastic DIY'r but have no training, just experience Vehicle 2006 Carthago on an Iveco Daily Chassis with 2.8 engine Schaudt Elektrobloc EBL 240 fitted Symptoms Battery warning light illuminated when engine running Fridge not working on 12 volts Leisure batteries not being charged from alternator Tests Carried Out Alternator tested and proved charging engine battery All fuses tested, 4 at engine battery and 2 at leisure battery, all ok 12 volt from D+ at burner control at fridge No 12 volt from D+ at cooling element All fuses on EBL checked ok Leisure batteries charging on EHU & Solar Contacted A&N Caravans, Martin, who suggested checking pin 3, block 2 on EBL with engine running and if getting 12 volts it will be an internal issue on EBL. Tested showing 12 volts EBL removed and taken to Martin who tested it proving nothing wrong Re-fitted EBL still same symptoms. Removed block 2 to test it and noticed battery warning light was out. Now started checking every fuse and relay I could find before finding the culprit. A relay at rear of fridge was faulty. Changed it and everything working as it should Lessons learnt Never knew split charging is in the Elektrobloc Look at fridge if you have a charging problem Even though Martin was wrong I couldn't have got there without his help Keep a spare 5 pin relay in the van When checking keep your eyes open. I tested the 12 volt heating element but didn't notice the wires came from the faulty relay. If I had I would probably have changed it but who looks in a fridge for a charging fault?? John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 I would like to thank John for his informative and well set out post. Out of interest I have collected copies of "Block diagrams" of 4 versions of Electrobloc ranging from EBL 99 to EBL 269, but I have been unable to locate a diagram for the EBL 240. All of the diagrams for the Electrobloc in my possession depict an integral fridge relay or relays. John has not stated whetther whether or not the fridge in his vehicle is AES. The diagram for the EBL 269 shows an external "battery cut off" or split charge relay, while on other versions it is within the Electrobloc. In both cases the relay coil is powered from D+ via the Electrobloc. Given that the EBL provides a fridge relay, I am tempted to wonder why a relay has been fitted in a less than ideal enviromental location behind the fridge, one possible answer would be to reduce the loading on the Electrobloc. Also, I have a vague memory of a previous post where a relay located behind the fridge had failed. It seems that a D+ connection has been routed directly to control the relay behind the fridge, and that the D+ input to the Electrobloc has been wired in parallel with the fridge element. As John has discovered failure of the external fridge relay, results in loss of the derived D+ signal to the Electrbloc split charge relay. I believe that where external split charge and fridge relays have been installed in the engine bay, it has been common practice to energise the split charge relay from the fridge relay. May I offer the small correction that it is not the D+ connection that powers the fridge 12V element. The power is controlled by the D+ signal via the relay. This may seem fussy, but the difference is important. As regards Martin's incorrect diagnosis, it would have been correct if the fridge had been connected as shown on Electrobloc diagrams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bounty hunter Posted June 8, 2019 Author Share Posted June 8, 2019 Alan Have sent you a PM John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 Alanb - 2019-06-08 11:21 AM ...................................................The diagram for the EBL 269 shows an external "battery cut off" or split charge relay, while on other versions it is within the Electrobloc........................... Sorry folks may I correct myself. The above statement is incorrect. The split charge relay is internal to the Electrobloc. However on EBL 240, EBL 269, and perhaps others, it is not mounted on the circuit board. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plwsm2000 Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 Alanb - 2019-06-08 11:21 AM I would like to thank John for his informative and well set out post. Out of interest I have collected copies of "Block diagrams" of 4 versions of Electrobloc ranging from EBL 99 to EBL 269, but I have been unable to locate a diagram for the EBL 240. All of the diagrams for the Electrobloc in my possession depict an integral fridge relay or relays. John has not stated whetther whether or not the fridge in his vehicle is AES. The diagram for the EBL 269 shows an external "battery cut off" or split charge relay, while on other versions it is within the Electrobloc. In both cases the relay coil is powered from D+ via the Electrobloc. Given that the EBL provides a fridge relay, I am tempted to wonder why a relay has been fitted in a less than ideal enviromental location behind the fridge, one possible answer would be to reduce the loading on the Electrobloc. Also, I have a vague memory of a previous post where a relay located behind the fridge had failed. It seems that a D+ connection has been routed directly to control the relay behind the fridge, and that the D+ input to the Electrobloc has been wired in parallel with the fridge element. As John has discovered failure of the external fridge relay, results in loss of the derived D+ signal to the Electrbloc split charge relay. I believe that where external split charge and fridge relays have been installed in the engine bay, it has been common practice to energise the split charge relay from the fridge relay. May I offer the small correction that it is not the D+ connection that powers the fridge 12V element. The power is controlled by the D+ signal via the relay. This may seem fussy, but the difference is important. As regards Martin's incorrect diagnosis, it would have been correct if the fridge had been connected as shown on Electrobloc diagrams. Just for further info. The D+ signal from the base vehicle has a maximum current of 300mA (according to the Fiat Converters and upfitters manual). On my EBL223, the D+ is boosted using an internal relay. The D+ signal is picked up from the converters connector (I think) behind the drivers seat (RHD) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deneb Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 plwsm2000 - 2019-06-08 9:52 PM Just for further info. The D+ signal from the base vehicle has a maximum current of 300mA (according to the Fiat Converters and upfitters manual). On my EBL223, the D+ is boosted using an internal relay. The D+ signal is picked up from the converters connector (I think) behind the drivers seat (RHD) The D+ signal from the conversion socket connector is a simulated signal derived from the body computer. It is only designed to act as a switching signal for a maximum of two relays, hence the 300mA current limit. It is also a pull to earth connection rather than a live feed, so acts as a switched earth on the switching circuit of any relay connected to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 I had noticed the "active at ground" notation in relation to the D+ signal, but did not realise the full implication. The Electrobloc EBL 240, as others requires an active high (+12V) D+ input. The conversion is easily performed using a relay with the coil connected to a permanent +12V supply, or perhaps an ACC + supply from the vehicle. Why not make this relay the fridge relay, and take a tap off the output to provide the required active high D+ input for the Electrobloc? However in my opinion a 2A fuse should in the connection to the Electrobloc, close to the tap point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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