Colin1325 Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 Hi there I have just bought 2 x 150 solar panels with mppt controller. They've told me to connect in series.. OK.. So I can see how to do that but they don't say how to connect from controller to batteries.. I have 2x 12v.. . So can I connect the 2 batteries together In parralel as in pos to first bat and neg to second bat.? Or do I have to connect in series... I found leisure batteries under seat. Can I assume the power IN wires are the ones that are connected to the first battery and the end battery is one that has no wires going anywhere else but to the first battery... I know I don't actually know anything about this so I only hope I'm talking some sense to you.. Sorrt to trouble you but if u can kinda explain that would be great Colin . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceM Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 Before making a suggestion, it would assist if you could let us know the make/model of your mppt solar regulator and the make/model of your van. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ocsid Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 Colin1325 - 2019-06-25 10:38 AM Hi there I have just bought 2 x 150 solar panels with mppt controller. They've told me to connect in series.. OK.. So I can see how to do that but they don't say how to connect from controller to batteries.. I have 2x 12v.. . So can I connect the 2 batteries together In parralel as in pos to first bat and neg to second bat.? Or do I have to connect in series... I found leisure batteries under seat. Can I assume the power IN wires are the ones that are connected to the first battery and the end battery is one that has no wires going anywhere else but to the first battery... I know I don't actually know anything about this so I only hope I'm talking some sense to you.. Sorrt to trouble you but if u can kinda explain that would be great Colin . The advice to connect the panels in series would be to get the input voltage high, which also means at lower light levels there will still be some "push" to charge the batteries, its a major plus feature in buying a MPPT type controller. The batteries, if both for the leisure duty are almost certainly already wired in parallel as otherwise the associated kit would need to be for 24 VDC use, not the near universal 12 VDC we have here. Therefore as already wired in parallel that is how they must be left wired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin1325 Posted June 25, 2019 Author Share Posted June 25, 2019 Tracer AN Series 3210AN Nominal System Voltage 12/24V Auto Battery Input Voltage Range 8V ~ 32V Max Charge/ Discharge Current 30A Max. PV Open Circuit Voltage 100V (At minimum operating environment temperature) Max. PV Open Circuit Voltage 92V (At 25 Deg C operating environment temperature) MPPT Voltage Range +2V ~ 72V Max Rated Charging Power (30A), 390W (12V), 780W (24V) Max. PV Array Input Power 1170W (12V), 2340W (24V) Wiring Connections, Solar +/-, Battery +/-, Power Output +/-, Temp Sensor, COM RJ45 Working Environment Temperature Range - 25 to +45 Deg C Humidity Range <95% Enclosure IP30 Dimensions 220mm x 154mm x 52mm Power Terminals 6AWH (12mm sq) Weight 1.1Kg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin1325 Posted June 25, 2019 Author Share Posted June 25, 2019 Hi ok thanx I have put panels on this afternoon then put cables on batteries then it corresponding cables to controller , then put wires from panels to controller ,,panels not Clive at this point so I was already to go ,!, no !,!i then connected panels as per instructions but hey ho no power to controller just a blank screen I’ve obviously messed up somewhere 8-) (!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikefitz Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 As pointed out its usual to have a 12v DC electrical system in a motorhome and it should be possible to confirm this by examining the connections to your batteries. Connect the battery positive and negative to the controller before connecting up the panels. You can connect identical panels in parallel or series, in practice it makes little difference as any advantage at low light levels is insignificant. The controller user data will specify a cable and fuse size for the connections to the battery. With two 150 watt panels under ideal conditions you could get around 20 amps into the batteries so a fuse value of 30 amps mounted near the batteries would be suitable. Idealy the controller should be mounted within 2 meters of the batteries with cable suitable for minimum voltage drop, say 10mm2 area. The controller will have user settings for battery type, so ensure the correct settings is used. The panels will usually have cable with MC4 solar connectors, if required additional cable and connectors for serial or parallel connection can be obtained from Internet suppliers. You may be advised to put fuses between the solar input and controller, these will have no protective action as the panels can give no more current than the specified maximum, however they may be useful to isolate the panel if required, by removal. There is much information on fitting panels to the roof, for rigid framed panels mechanical fixing in addition to any sealant used is recommended. I have just seen your latest post. Disconnect everything. Connect the battery to the controller, the center pair of terminals, ensuring you have positive to positive and negative to negative. The display should show signs of life. If nothing happens check with a voltmeter that the controller is getting power. With some daylight the series connected panels should generate around 40 volts or more, measure this to confirm the panel cables are connected correctly . Connect to the controller, the left hand pair of terminals, again ensuring the polarity is correct. It may just be a poor connection somewhere. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin1325 Posted June 25, 2019 Author Share Posted June 25, 2019 Hi thanx for replying should the controller power up wen I connect battery to it as it didn’t happen ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceM Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 This appears to be the manual for the solar regulator you have https://www.epsolarpv.com/upload/cert/file/1811/Tracer-AN-SMS-EL-V1.0.pdf The recommended circuit in the manual is as per the picture below. Does this correspond to how you understand you’ve connected everything up? Also, yes, although I’m unfamiliar with that particular solar regulator, I’d expect the regulator to be powered up once it is connected correctly to the battery bank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 Can I suggest you read the specification of this Solar Regulator carefully, as it is likely to shorten the life of the batteries considerably as it is not designed for a motorhome. It is also not a proper MPPT, unit as the MPPT functionality is only available on the Bulk charge phase, which usually charges up the first 40 - 50% of a TOTALLY flat battery. Most Motorhome batteries are not discharged below 50%, so the 'Bulk' phase never actually kicks in. The main charging phase on a Motorhome battery is the second phase, Constant Voltage. The manual states, "When the battery voltage reaches the constant voltage setpoint, the controller will start to operate in constant charging mode, this process is no longer MPPT charging", In other words, the MPPT charging will never be triggered unless you over discharge the battery, which will shorten it's life anyway. The Tracer also deliberately overcharges the battery on the 28th day of each month for 3 hours. Overcharge to the point it causes gassing and internal degradation in the battery. If you don't believe me on the effect of this, just read the Warnings in the manual.. The Tracer Solar regulator is designed for House Solar systems where the batteries are generally ultra Deep Cycle types that never move, "Standing" batteries like those used in Data Centre 'Back-up' systems, etc. Because these batteries never physically move to 'stir-up' the acid, a charge cycle is used to deliberately gas the battery that then circulates the acid. Similarly these house systems use deeper discharging the batteries so the Bulk charging phase and MPPT will come into play more. The Tracer also has a rather high 13.8v Float voltage, not the 13.4v of the best. So not only will the Tracer shorten the batteries life significantly, but the MPPT operating on the 'wrong charge phase' means you won't benefit from that extra 30% charging power. The other giveaways that it's not for a motorhome is the lack of Starter Battery charging, the LCD screen that won't ever be visible when it's located in a motorhome where the screen will rarely be seen. Read the manual and make up your own mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikefitz Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 The comments regarding the unsuitable performance of the Tracer controller are not completely correct. This is due in part to the poor translation for the English user manual. The first point is that in all modes, bulk, absorption and float it will take in power from the panels and convert to the required voltage level. In the bulk stage it will deliver maximum power until the target voltage, say 14.4 volts is reached, this will be somewhere between 50% and 90% of battery capacity depending on battery type and available charge current. The controller will stabilise the voltage to the target value for a preset time in the absorption stage, the mppt conversion to get the best from the panels is still in operation. I accept that the default float voltage is a little high, but all voltages are user programmable. The equalisation mode is not used for gel batteries and the voltage is not very high and will cause little problems for most batteries. Again this voltage can be user programmed to a lower level. The need for a dual output controller is a debatable point, there are alternative units from CBE and others that in perform a similar task to divert a small solar charge to the engine battery where a single output controller is used. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 mikefitz - 2019-06-26 2:31 PM The comments regarding the unsuitable performance of the Tracer controller are not completely correct. This is due in part to the poor translation for the English user manual. The first point is that in all modes, bulk, absorption and float it will take in power from the panels and convert to the required voltage level. In the bulk stage it will deliver maximum power until the target voltage, say 14.4 volts is reached, this will be somewhere between 50% and 90% of battery capacity depending on battery type and available charge current. The controller will stabilise the voltage to the target value for a preset time in the absorption stage, the mppt conversion to get the best from the panels is still in operation. I accept that the default float voltage is a little high, but all voltages are user programmable. The equalisation mode is not used for gel batteries and the voltage is not very high and will cause little problems for most batteries. Again this voltage can be user programmed to a lower level. The need for a dual output controller is a debatable point, there are alternative units from CBE and others that in perform a similar task to divert a small solar charge to the engine battery where a single output controller is used. Mike Mike, You are joking right? We are not talking about low current into a battery, but up to 25 amps. There is no way a battery is going to like your 90% figure, You write, charging at 'Bulk' for "somewhere between 50% and 90% of battery capacity depending on battery type and available charge current". If it did that the battery would be totally cooked. Putting 25amps constant current into a battery while it charges from Flat to 90% would be a crazy thing to suggest. With the set up we are talking about here the charger would reach full voltage and switch over to the second stage 'Constant voltage" and reducing current even before 50% of the 'Bulk' charge had taken place. Hence my 40% - 50% estimate which was a relevant to this post and this Solar Charger. So each day when the Sun comes up, this Tracer will restart on the second stage. It might initially start on 'Bulk' but would skip through it in seconds. That behaviour, according to most of the responses I have seen on here, is normal for most Solar Regulators with a battery at better than 50% DOD, with some even reporting a drop to 'Float' within hours. I can't see any translation issue in the manual, it is quite emphatic that MPPT doesn't kick in for the second stage. As for suggesting a single battery Solar regulator and a second power theft device, like the CBE, is an option, such a solution not only adds complexity but a second level of unreliability and lost efficiency versus a decent motorhome specific regulator. Charging of the Starter battery is usually less than ideal, with some of the devices just linking the batteries together so the Starter battery gets 14.4v when it would be happier with 13.4v. I guess it is 'debatable', but I don't think the debate would be very long for those who understand the issues. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin1325 Posted June 26, 2019 Author Share Posted June 26, 2019 Woo getting to complicated.. Anyhow back to reality lol... It turned out I blew 30 amp fuse. Put new fuse in and retried connecting and hey ho controller lit up... Batteries at around 12.4 v... Controller on but showing moon as though its nighttime doesn't show any charge coming in. On readout it shows battery and load but no panel depicted on digi readout gives battery 12.4 volts gives option for type of battery .. I've tried going thru settings but with no luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin1325 Posted June 27, 2019 Author Share Posted June 27, 2019 mikefitz - 2019-06-25 11:15 PMu Hi mike thanx for your input I found the prob with the initial problem I actually blew the fuse after connecting the pos and neg to the battery ,,,,,replaced the fuse and the controller came alive ....the prob now is in top left hand corner led readout on controller it is showing a moon indicating night time ? I just thought at first it was because it was cloudy ,,as I know nothing about s.p. ....but it should apparently be showing a pic of solar panel with an arrow pointing to battery ? I’m wondering do I need to go into controller settings and change them ...I’ve gone into settings and it just gives me info such as battery state and temp.colin As pointed out its usual to have a 12v DC electrical system in a motorhome and it should be possible to confirm this by examining the connections to your batteries. Connect the battery positive and negative to the controller before connecting up the panels. You can connect identical panels in parallel or series, in practice it makes little difference as any advantage at low light levels is insignificant. The controller user data will specify a cable and fuse size for the connections to the battery. With two 150 watt panels under ideal conditions you could get around 20 amps into the batteries so a fuse value of 30 amps mounted near the batteries would be suitable. Idealy the controller should be mounted within 2 meters of the batteries with cable suitable for minimum voltage drop, say 10mm2 area. The controller will have user settings for battery type, so ensure the correct settings is used. The panels will usually have cable with MC4 solar connectors, if required additional cable and connectors for serial or parallel connection can be obtained from Internet suppliers. You may be advised to put fuses between the solar input and controller, these will have no protective action as the panels can give no more current than the specified maximum, however they may be useful to isolate the panel if required, by removal. There is much information on fitting panels to the roof, for rigid framed panels mechanical fixing in addition to any sealant used is recommended. I have just seen your latest post. Disconnect everything. Connect the battery to the controller, the center pair of terminals, ensuring you have positive to positive and negative to negative. The display should show signs of life. If nothing happens check with a voltmeter that the controller is getting power. With some daylight the series connected panels should generate around 40 volts or more, measure this to confirm the panel cables are connected correctly . Connect to the controller, the left hand pair of terminals, again ensuring the polarity is correct. It may just be a poor connection somewhere. Mike :-| :-| :-| :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikefitz Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 To Colin 1235, Have you confirmed you are getting over 40 volts from the series connected panels? It could be a wiring fault. With the Tracer display I understand that there may be problems with it correctly displaying the state of play, contact thec supplier for more details on this. The voltage and current values should be correct but some of the symbols may be incorrectly displayed. With your setup ignore the load terminals on the Tracer and take all the camper loads from the battery via suitable fuses. It may be useful to monitor the battery voltage, with some solar you should be seeing voltages of 13 volts and above. Try starting up the Tracer again from a disconnected state. Disconnect everything, apply power to the controller then connect the solar, then follow the handbook instructions. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceM Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 The solar regulator powering up is a great step forward. As mentioned above, the lack of solar input does smack of a wiring issue. I suggest that you retrace your wiring and check that a/ the panels are correctly connected in series (assuming that’s your aim) and b/ that you have not reversed the polarity when connecting the solar panel cable to the solar regulator (ie accidently connected ‘+’ to ‘–’ terminal and vice versa) . If I had to guess I’d suspect that your issue is ‘b’ . If you have access to a voltmeter it’ll make your diagnostics much easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin1325 Posted June 27, 2019 Author Share Posted June 27, 2019 Hi thanx for replying.. no image of solar panel on controller.. No charge shown coming from panel showing... Just shows a moon in left hand corner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikefitz Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 You need to confirm the panels are connected correctly. Check all wiring. Using a voltmeter to check the situation would help. With the panels disconnected from the controller you should see a voltage of over 40 volts when series connected. If you have access to the output from each panel then expect around 20 volts per panel. It's virtually impossible to damage a panel with incorrect wiring but a simple error with interconnections could result in no solar generated power to the controller. If you have access to the panel outputs independently then you could just connect one panel at a time to verify each is working. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin1325 Posted June 28, 2019 Author Share Posted June 28, 2019 Hi all in hand I've got a chap who is great with that and hopefully he's looking on Monday all this lovely sunshine goin to waste Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin1325 Posted June 28, 2019 Author Share Posted June 28, 2019 Hi the company on ebay are great wen I asked them they told me everything that was in book.. Which I had read.. Then ended up saying that nobody had ever had a problem before... She got one in her caravan and its fine... I need to get a solar engineer to fit them.... You bought em u sort it out... I offered some advice.. That if they r tricky to install then I suggested they put that in their advert to advise people to start with.. I def wouldn't point anyone in their direction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin1325 Posted July 2, 2019 Author Share Posted July 2, 2019 Hi all thanx for your help on solar questions... All solved now as my mate and 12 volt expert sorted problem just a faulty plug connector on roof ... Next question can I charge vehicle batteries via solar panel... Is it just a case of running a pos an neg from controller to the vehicle batteries or is that too simple an idea Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikefitz Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 Fit one of these, https://www.roadpro.co.uk/product/02e02-battery-maintainers/votronic-battery-master-c8451/C8451 You need a fuse at each battery, perhaps get your mate to help. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin1325 Posted July 5, 2019 Author Share Posted July 5, 2019 Hi been and sorted for me 2 days after 2 batteries that were 12.4v.arenow 13.7v spot on well pleased thanx for all your help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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