jumpstart Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 Most vans have carbon monoxide alarms anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandy Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-08-05 8:59 AM aandy - 2019-08-05 8:54 AM pelmetman - 2019-08-05 8:17 AM Hmmm?........So in the case of the Chadwicks the French medical profession just pretended their blood tests showed Carbon Monoxide poisoning? 8-) ......... Unlikely, but more plausible than any other explanation that has been put forward so far. So the French medical services will pretend you have Carbon monoxide poisoning? 8-) .......... That's more scary than the thought of being robbed 8-) ......... Not at all. They may merely have noted higher than usual levels in the blood, which as someone else has pointed out could be from a number of sources (even smoking raises CO levels) and is very unlikely to have been enough to render anyone unconscious. I couldn't read the article in your link because the screen greyed out every time I opened it, but I'd bet it didn't include a verbatim account of what the medics said. The most likely explanation is highly selective reporting, taking the medical report out of context and implying a conclusion that wasn't there. The press are far more interested in sensationalism than, accuracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicepix Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 aandy - 2019-08-05 11:23 AM pelmetman - 2019-08-05 8:59 AM aandy - 2019-08-05 8:54 AM pelmetman - 2019-08-05 8:17 AM Hmmm?........So in the case of the Chadwicks the French medical profession just pretended their blood tests showed Carbon Monoxide poisoning? 8-) ......... Unlikely, but more plausible than any other explanation that has been put forward so far. So the French medical services will pretend you have Carbon monoxide poisoning? 8-) .......... That's more scary than the thought of being robbed 8-) ......... Not at all. They may merely have noted higher than usual levels in the blood, which as someone else has pointed out could be from a number of sources (even smoking raises CO levels) and is very unlikely to have been enough to render anyone unconscious. I couldn't read the article in your link because the screen greyed out every time I opened it, but I'd bet it didn't include a verbatim account of what the medics said. The most likely explanation is highly selective reporting, taking the medical report out of context and implying a conclusion that wasn't there. The press are far more interested in sensationalism than, accuracy. The account is given here: https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/496995/British-Family-France-Exhaust-Fume-Carbon-Monoxide-Camper-Van-Robbery There were no medical records included to support the Chadwick's account of a higher than normal level of CO in their blood. There is reference to a comment made by a medical person which does not confirm that CO poisoning was actually detected. Just that it could be fatal IF it had been used. So we are back to the situation whereby somebody claims that they have been gassed. Which is not the same as actually having been gassed. If you read the reports in the French press there is absolutely nothing to prove that this occurs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandy Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 Nicepix - 2019-08-05 2:00 PM The account is given here: https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/496995/British-Family-France-Exhaust-Fume-Carbon-Monoxide-Camper-Van-Robbery There were no medical records included to support the Chadwick's account of a higher than normal level of CO in their blood. There is reference to a comment made by a medical person which does not confirm that CO poisoning was actually detected. Just that it could be fatal IF it had been used. So we are back to the situation whereby somebody claims that they have been gassed. Which is not the same as actually having been gassed. If you read the reports in the French press there is absolutely nothing to prove that this occurs. Thanks for the link. Seems the story is even weaker than I thought. The article merely repeats what the alleged victims said without question and with no attempt to test or verify their claim. I'd want something a bit more convincing than that before I'd question the RCA's advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 Few thieves would be stupid enough to use exhaust fumes. Who would risk a murder conviction and life imprisonment just to grab a few valuables. It's obvious they are all bogus insurance claims. £1200 indeed *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive_Adams Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 couple of thoughts: why is it always on return journey, by which time I have normally liquidated all my cash into Red and White wine, surely would be more lucrative for thieves to get their spoils from people arriving? Injection of a knock out gas is exceptionally difficult, to gauge dosage especially for multiple different size and location in the van of persons. Injection of anything through the vents or exhaust ?? Use of CO (carbon monoxide) your more likely to kill the victim than just render him unconcious and petty thieves are not normally willing to risk doing that as that elevates the crime to a whole different level Why is it always British vans, don't other nationalities carry enormous amounts of cash and bling. Apart from the criminals including the insurance fraudsters the only other people who are likely to benefit are the alarm salesmen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 Why haven't British thieves started doing this? I've seen plenty of vans overnighting in remote places. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicepix Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 Clive_Adams - 2019-08-05 5:38 PM couple of thoughts: why is it always on return journey, by which time I have normally liquidated all my cash into Red and White wine, surely would be more lucrative for thieves to get their spoils from people arriving? Injection of a knock out gas is exceptionally difficult, to gauge dosage especially for multiple different size and location in the van of persons. Injection of anything through the vents or exhaust ?? Use of CO (carbon monoxide) your more likely to kill the victim than just render him unconcious and petty thieves are not normally willing to risk doing that as that elevates the crime to a whole different level Why is it always British vans, don't other nationalities carry enormous amounts of cash and bling. Apart from the criminals including the insurance fraudsters the only other people who are likely to benefit are the alarm salesmen Only the British have Rolex watches and vast amounts of cash left lying around the van. (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 david lloyd - 2019-08-05 5:54 PM Why haven't British thieves started doing this? I've seen plenty of vans overnighting in remote places. David Maybe the British thieves are all doing it in France ? More vans to choose from. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandy Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 Nicepix - 2019-08-05 7:05 PM Only the British have Rolex watches and vast amounts of cash left lying around the van. (lol) As evidenced by the insurance companies' claims records. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 Clive_Adams - 2019-08-05 4:38 PM Use of CO (carbon monoxide) your more likely to kill the victim than just render him unconcious There are on average 4000 cases of Carbon Monoxide poisoning every year compared to a 100 deaths according to the NHS ;-) .......... So I'd say that death is unlikely to result from short term exposure :-| ......... https://www.england.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/hbot-for-carbon-monoxide-poisoning-v2.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 teccer1234 - 2019-08-05 9:30 AM so maybe their fridge was not completly sealed from the inside the of the van letting carbon monoxide into the van that would give them a bad headache next day How unlucky were the Chadwicks that after weeks touring Europe in their camper, the fridge goes on the blink causing 6 adults to become unconscious, just at the same time they were targeted by a thief 8-) .......... But there again ;-) .......... How lucky were the Chadwicks that after they were robbed.... the fridge cured itself enabling them to wake up? B-) ............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teccer1234 Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 and as for leaving a rolex lying around to be stolen, my insurance will only cover my rolex if it is stolen from me while It's on my wrist, (robbery) , it's not insured if it's not on me or in a locked safe why would anybody take it off?? the chances of it running down during the night is quite high especally after a sedate drive with not a lot of movement to wind it up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teccer1234 Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 .......... But there again ;-) .......... How lucky were the Chadwicks that after they were robbed.... the fridge cured itself enabling them to wake up? B-) ............ it was only a suggestion *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandy Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 How lucky were the Chadwicks that the press took at face value everything they said, reporting it without any attempt at verification and without even bothering to test the plausibility of their story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 aandy - 2019-08-06 9:33 AM How lucky were the Chadwicks that the press took at face value everything they said, reporting it without any attempt at verification and without even bothering to test the plausibility of their story. You have a point ;-) ...........I keep reading No Deal is dead :D ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 Clive_Adams - 2019-08-05 4:38 PM ...Why is it always British vans, don't other nationalities carry enormous amounts of cash and bling... It isn’t “always British vans” - there has been similar discussions on French forums (example here) https://www.routard.com/forum_message/4226627/vol_de_nuit_et_gaze_en_camping_car.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicepix Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-08-06 10:08 AM Clive_Adams - 2019-08-05 4:38 PM Use of CO (carbon monoxide) your more likely to kill the victim than just render him unconcious There are on average 4000 cases of Carbon Monoxide poisoning every year compared to a 100 deaths according to the NHS ;-) .......... So I'd say that death is unlikely to result from short term exposure :-| ......... https://www.england.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/hbot-for-carbon-monoxide-poisoning-v2.pdf Short term exposure you say? How lucky are all the 'victims' of motor home gassing incidents not to have suffered these irreversible afflictions mentioned in the document given that they have remained in the gas filled environment for several hours before miraculously waking up not dead! Or do the thieves caringly leave a window open when they leave? *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 On-line argument about motorhome-related ‘gassing’ has been going on for years. This 13-year-old thread on this forum refers https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Gas-attacks-did-anyone-see-Richard-Judy-/4788/ and it will be apparent from Brian Kirby’s 8 August 2006 9:54 PM posting there that the subject had been discussed before. It’s been suggested that carbon monoxide might be used and this poisonous gas could produce the sort of symptoms theft-victims complain of. The gas has commercial usages (it doesn’t just come out of vehicle exhaust pipes) when it would be odour-free and relatively easily to obtain. In principle it ought to be possible using a canister of carbon monoxide to introduce sufficient gas into a motorhome to incapacitate the occupants without too much risk of killing them. Obviously, doing this successfully and frequently would require careful experimentation (perhaps using animals as research subjects) and calculating the motorhome’s internal volume (easy enough to do). But what really needs to be explored is whether a ‘gassing’ incident has ever actually taken place. Perhaps the possibility of ’theft by gas’ was raised in the dim distant past and somebody said “This must have been what happened to me”. From then on positive feedback would occur and the press would jump on board when it was claimed that ‘celebrities’ had been robbed using this technique. (There’s no limit to human credulity and evidently there’s no limit to the number of times this issue comes up on motorhome forums.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 Nicepix - 2019-08-06 11:34 AM pelmetman - 2019-08-06 10:08 AM Clive_Adams - 2019-08-05 4:38 PM Use of CO (carbon monoxide) your more likely to kill the victim than just render him unconcious There are on average 4000 cases of Carbon Monoxide poisoning every year compared to a 100 deaths according to the NHS ;-) .......... So I'd say that death is unlikely to result from short term exposure :-| ......... https://www.england.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/hbot-for-carbon-monoxide-poisoning-v2.pdf Short term exposure you say? How lucky are all the 'victims' of motor home gassing incidents not to have suffered these irreversible afflictions mentioned in the document given that they have remained in the gas filled environment for several hours before miraculously waking up not dead! Or do the thieves caringly leave a window open when they leave? *-) BUT ;-) .......They would not have remained in a gas filled environment for hours would they? *-) .......... Because as soon as the thieves broke in fresh air would have entered the van, and they would also presumably turn off the CO :-| ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 Derek Uzzell - 2019-08-06 1:48 PM On-line argument about motorhome-related ‘gassing’ has been going on for years. This 13-year-old thread on this forum refers https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Gas-attacks-did-anyone-see-Richard-Judy-/4788/ and it will be apparent from Brian Kirby’s 8 August 2006 9:54 PM posting there that the subject had been discussed before. It’s been suggested that carbon monoxide might be used and this poisonous gas could produce the sort of symptoms theft-victims complain of. The gas has commercial usages (it doesn’t just come out of vehicle exhaust pipes) when it would be odour-free and relatively easily to obtain. In principle it ought to be possible using a canister of carbon monoxide to introduce sufficient gas into a motorhome to incapacitate the occupants without too much risk of killing them. Obviously, doing this successfully and frequently would require careful experimentation (perhaps using animals as research subjects) and calculating the motorhome’s internal volume (easy enough to do). But what really needs to be explored is whether a ‘gassing’ incident has ever actually taken place. Perhaps the possibility of ’theft by gas’ was raised in the dim distant past and somebody said “This must have been what happened to me”. From then on positive feedback would occur and the press would jump on board when it was claimed that ‘celebrities’ had been robbed using this technique. (There’s no limit to human credulity and evidently there’s no limit to the number of times this issue comes up on motorhome forums.) What I find incredulous that some folk think 6 adults can sleep through their camper being ransacked? :-S ........... Our dog having a scratch wakes me up 8-) .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spospe Posted August 6, 2019 Author Share Posted August 6, 2019 How do the thieves deal with the atmosphere in the van when they enter? Do they hold their breath? Do they have effective gas masks? Why have not any dogs present raised the alarm before they were overcome? Any dog that I have met would be on alert before the gas started hissing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicepix Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-08-06 3:02 PM Nicepix - 2019-08-06 11:34 AM pelmetman - 2019-08-06 10:08 AM Clive_Adams - 2019-08-05 4:38 PM Use of CO (carbon monoxide) your more likely to kill the victim than just render him unconcious There are on average 4000 cases of Carbon Monoxide poisoning every year compared to a 100 deaths according to the NHS ;-) .......... So I'd say that death is unlikely to result from short term exposure :-| ......... https://www.england.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/hbot-for-carbon-monoxide-poisoning-v2.pdf Short term exposure you say? How lucky are all the 'victims' of motor home gassing incidents not to have suffered these irreversible afflictions mentioned in the document given that they have remained in the gas filled environment for several hours before miraculously waking up not dead! Or do the thieves caringly leave a window open when they leave? *-) BUT ;-) .......They would not have remained in a gas filled environment for hours would they? *-) .......... Because as soon as the thieves broke in fresh air would have entered the van, and they would also presumably turn off the CO :-| ......... There is absolutely no evidence that gas has ever been used. No canisters found. No medical reports showing abnormal blood levels. Nobody arrested or checked out carrying gas or the means to apply it. No feasible means to fill a camper / caravan with gas sufficient to render people unconscious according the the definite body on these matters. Just a load of unsubstantiated claims. The Gendarmes have arrested offenders carrying out thefts from camping-cars and have never found any evidence of gas being used. As for the questions about people sleeping through these events; I have been part of teams that have forcibly put doors in, gone in with three or four colleagues and found the person we were looking for and others in the house still asleep. I have kicked a door in and gone upstairs and been unable to waken all the occupants to tell them their house was on fire. I had to carry one of them downstairs still asleep. If you want to believe in gassing, Father Christmas or fairies then go ahead. But there is absolutely no evidence to support any of these. Just claims. I''m out of here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 Nicepix - 2019-08-06 4:52 PM As for the questions about people sleeping through these events; I have been part of teams that have forcibly put doors in, gone in with three or four colleagues and found the person we were looking for and others in the house still asleep. I have kicked a door in and gone upstairs and been unable to waken all the occupants to tell them their house was on fire. I had to carry one of them downstairs still asleep. Kinda proves how effective Carbon Monoxide is at knocking people out don't you think? ;-) ........... After all Carbon Monoxide is a by product of a fire is it not? :-| .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 spospe - 2019-08-06 4:07 PM How do the thieves deal with the atmosphere in the van when they enter? Do they hold their breath? Do they have effective gas masks? Why have not any dogs present raised the alarm before they were overcome? Any dog that I have met would be on alert before the gas started hissing. How did my mechanic manage to work when my alarm was going off indicating a raised level of CO? ;-) ....... My guess is he was awake and working, where as the victims who have been robbed were already asleep :-| ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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