Security - Visual deterant

[Way2Go]

I'll go very slowly for you Brian as you seem to have a problem understanding my original post.

I asked for help or advice on visual deterants as I already had a Thatcham approved alarm system . . . with me so far?

I'm not interested in new door locks, welding the doors closed or any other discrete half-baked subtle ideas I wanted advice from experienced Motor Homers on how they visually deter thieves.  I was thinking along the lines of a wheel clamp or steering wheel lock type stuff to make a thief think twice before even attempting to break in and activating the second line of defence - the alarm . . .still with me?

I appreciate that once someone starts a thread there is no control over it but all I ask is that people try and stick to the point and not go off at a tangent.

The same thing happened to the Speed Camera thread - I merely offered to help people avoid getting a speeding ticket then all the 'holier than thou' brigade started posting a load of claptrap about speeding and going to hell . . . blah, blah, blah.

Hmmm, that's better.  Come everyone let's keep this pointless exercise going.  Who's first to take their first shot?

Soon to be Way2Gone

[michele]

I 've got one that may or may not help.

On ours we have an arm its called a D ring just as you get into the habitation door. You can open it and when you are using the M/H it is in the open position but when we go out it's pulled over the habitation door and locked gives added protection and it's an outside VIsual deterant .

 

This any help.

[Way2Go]

Thank you Michele, I'll check it out.  Star person ;-)

[Guest Frank Wilkinson]

Honestly! It does annoy me, these people who start arguing in threads! And if you don't mind me mentioning it Brian, if you're going to start highlighting someone's spelling mistakes

"Only respond if you know before beginning exactly what kind of answer (deterant - deterrent?) I have in mind."

 you must be very careful not to expose yourself to the likes of me "Loose control" indeed!

However, despite your little foibles and your tendency to get into rows I must say, with all sincerity, that you are a terrific contributor to this forum and we should all grateful to you for the advice that you give to us. And that is a genuine comment and compliment!

[michele]

Sorry I said useless didn't I It's a Fiamma you can look at the catologue I can not put on address for you but you can google it .

They also have smaller ones if you dont like that one ?. Ours from memory cost £80 worth it in my opinion.

 

Cheers

 

Way2Go In mothercare they do this stuff don't rightly know the name but it is a sheet of clear ? you put it on your windows on the inside it is so that if a window broke it keeps it in larger peices . Now I know it is not visual as you would like but the effect is that if someone were to smash your window its such a pain to get past this sticky stuff they might give up as they dont want to hang around ... I hope you understand what it is that I,m trying to explain for you :$

[sshortcircuit]

Frank Wilkinson - 2007-03-10 5:48 PM

Honestly! It does annoy me, these people who start arguing in threads! And if you don't mind me mentioning it Brian, if you're going to start highlighting someone's spelling mistakes

"Only respond if you know before beginning exactly what kind of answer (deterant - deterrent?) I have in mind."

 you must be very careful not to expose yourself to the likes of me "Loose control" indeed!

However, despite your little foibles and your tendency to get into rows I must say, with all sincerity, that you are a terrific contributor to this forum and we should all grateful to you for the advice that you give to us. And that is a genuine comment and compliment!

Yes, the perfect visual deterrent, to those who are unsure and therefor dont contribute

[Brian Kirby]

Sorry Guys

It was just the tone of the nameless holy one's post that got my goat.  All that shouting and condesending sarcasm at people who, for the most part, had tried to respond constructively.

He can't see it of course!  But there you are.  No harm done.

[Guest Frank Wilkinson]

Brian Kirby - 2007-03-10 6:14 PM

Sorry Guys

It was just the tone of the nameless holy one's post that got my goat.  All that shouting and condesending sarcasm at people who, for the most part, had tried to respond constructively.

He can't see it of course!  But there you are.  No harm done.

You mean that Brian Kirby is your real name?

Sebestian J. Peasmold-Gruntfuttock OBE VD & Scar

[Guest JudgeMental]

 

I have never liked michele's recommendation for the following reasons:

 

If it is locked it is obvious to any one the camper is unoccupied.

 

I am sure it could be wrenched open with brute force - causing expensive damage to camper walls which are not normally particularly strong.

 

IMO Dead locks are the best visual deterrent.

 

 

 

 

[michele]

I dun know Judge ?

 

I think you have a little point but If I was a theif I would go for the next one before I'd choose mine .

At least there is that to it anyway up to Way2Go and if they were thinking of getting in at all surely they would by pass that big lock and head for easier access ?....just a thought ;-) like the cab doors...

[Guest JudgeMental]

michele - 2007-03-10 7:03 PM

 

I dun know Judge ?

 

I think you have a little point but If I was a theif I would go for the next one before I'd choose mine .

At least there is that to it anyway up to Way2Go and if they were thinking of getting in at all surely they would by pass that big lock and head for easier access ?....just a thought ;-) like the cab doors...

 

Exactly! To encourage the thief to rob your neighbour instead of you, Sad isn’t it.

 

With dead locks on front doors they will have a real struggle to get in. They work on the caravan door as well – but these are intrinsically weaker then cab doors.

 

Ford slightly better, but Fiat/Peugeot notoriously easy to enter cab with a screwdriver(Thatcham give ford a 3 star rating and Fiat only 1 star)

 

But the real weak points are caravan windows and Heki’s – easy to access with a roof ladder.

 

So cat 1 alarm, dead locks, security film is what I am doing with new van.

 

[Guest Frank Wilkinson]

JudgeMental said of Michele:

Exactly! To encourage the thief to rob your neighbour instead of you, Sad isn’t it.

I hope that that comment was a joke JudgeMental because if it wasn't it's in poor taste and insulting. By making her van more difficult she discourages thieves from trying to break in to it. This is what we do with our homes. If your house looks inpregnable then the average sneak thief will leave it alone.

But by doing this we are not encouraging a thief to rob someone else but merely discouraging him from robbing us, which is completely different. If your neighbour then chooses to make his house or 'van attractive to a thief by having no visible security then that's his lookout.

I am not my brother's keeper!

[Guest JudgeMental]

 

Frank, I suspect you've been at the ouzo again?

 

I am aware that I can be a bit flippant but see nothing offensive?

 

Lighten up...

[michele]

Exactly my point Judge then they will sod off over to you I hope they don't get there leg's burnt with your fire flame thrower ....

Hahaha

 

Anyway's getting off of Way2 go's thread before I,m in trouble .

;-) Frank he's only messing with the court jester ;-)

[Brian Kirby]

enodreven - 2007-03-10 9:19 AM Hi, I suppose it depends on when you want the protection, is it when the van is unoccupied or when you are in it ? as i think these need to be examined separately, as while deadlocks may be a very good idea if as Brian suggests they the would be thieves will probably just smash the window and get in that way. Then I suggest the deadlocks could be a disadvantage as when we are in the motorhome the internal sensors are turned off so unless a door or window is actually opened the alarm won't sound, so it could be a better idea not to have the deadlock on as they will still perhaps break the window but if the deadlocks are not on once the window has been smashed they will be able to open the door and the alarm will sound which will also happen without deadlocks if they just use a screwdriver on the Ducato normal door locks. We use a plastic covered steel cable with a padlock between the 2 door handles and the handles on ours are the large integrated plastic arm rests which i don't think will give way very easily but there is sufficient slack on the cable for the door to open enough to set the alarm off but you can't get your hand in ? Hope that helps Brian

Bit of a mouthfull that, Brian, however:

I wouldn't recommend using the deadlocks while in the van, you may need to get out quick if, say, your van, or an adjacent one, caught fire.  They are really there to prevent the classic broken window break in, when the thief can operate the internal door handles through the cab window.  The deadlock releases should not be able to be reached through the window and so, remaining locked, will at the least greatly delay entry.  On most of our base vehicles bunking in through the window is possible, but hardly inviting.

Linking the door pulls I really don't rate.  If with webbing, breaking the glass and using a sharp knife would take seconds.  If with a steel cable?  Well, take off your door pulls and feel what they're made of.  They are designed not to cause you injury in a side impact, so there is really nothing there.  The small diameter cable will concentrate the forces at its point of contact, and I'd guess that with the door locks released, one good, sharp, strong, pull would be sufficient to cause the cable to cut through one or other of the pulls, or just to rip the pull from the door.

Alarm on when in occupation?  Well, if you must, but where are you parking?  What is the risk?  Why not park somewhere where you feel more comfortable, confident, and secure, and then just sleep fully relaxed?  Not always possible, I'll admit, but surely if you feel so insecure in the place you are, moving to somewhere better is generally preferable to remaining uneasy with the alarm activated?

[sshortcircuit]

Brian - Interesting and informative submission.

 

I have an alarm in my house which is in a very safe area. I switch it on every night and it gives me that added feeling of security. Similarly with the MH as if you are in a strange area moving may be from the frying pan to the fire

 

I am at this moment wiring the MH for alarm and was considering a DualTech type sensor in addition to magnetic contacts to each opening accessible door. In view of your comment about entry through a window I may forgo this detector.

 

I may fit contact to gas locker as having spent a few £100 on gaslow might be worth protecting.

 

Not going for imobiliser as I am more concerned about my contents and the casual intruder. If somebody wants to steel the lot then they will be well aware how to overcome.

 

Any suggetsions appreciated.

[Brian Kirby]

Frank Wilkinson - 2007-03-10 6:28 PM

Brian Kirby - 2007-03-10 6:14 PM

Sorry Guys

It was just the tone of the nameless holy one's post that got my goat.  All that shouting and condesending sarcasm at people who, for the most part, had tried to respond constructively.

He can't see it of course!  But there you are.  No harm done.

You mean that Brian Kirby is your real name?

Sebestian J. Peasmold-Gruntfuttock OBE VD & Scar

Er, well, since you ask Frank, no.  My real name is Silas J Clunchfuttock 3rd.  However, I don't use it as I hate being the 3rd.  Please don't tell anyone though, will you?

[Mike Chapman]

Brian Kirby - 2007-03-11 12:54 PM

I wouldn't recommend using the deadlocks while in the van, you may need to get out quick if, say, your van, or an adjacent one, caught fire. They are really there to prevent the classic broken window break in, when the thief can operate the internal door handles through the cab window. The deadlock releases should not be able to be reached through the window and so, remaining locked, will at the least greatly delay entry. On most of our base vehicles bunking in through the window is possible, but hardly inviting.

Hello Brian,Quite see your point which Dave Newell made when we had the Deadbolts fitted. The solution he recommended and we followed was to have all the doors except one dead bolted by a single hidden switch or remote and the other manually controlled. If we have to get out of the van quickly in an emergency we can either leave via the manual control door or open all the doors by pressing the deadbolt switch.Concerning the external Fiamma handle the picture showed the handle fitted without the additional lock fitted to the caravan door. This is particularly effective on van conversions with the side sliding door. Apart from this the handle is excellent as a grab handle for the disabled or infirm.I take Judgemental point about signalling occupancy or not but surely an alarm led does the same and a thief can always find other ways to check if there is anyone at home.Regards,Mike.

[Brian Kirby]

sshortcircuit - 2007-03-11 1:49 PM Brian - Interesting and informative submission. I have an alarm in my house which is in a very safe area. I switch it on every night and it gives me that added feeling of security. Similarly with the MH as if you are in a strange area moving may be from the frying pan to the fire I am at this moment wiring the MH for alarm and was considering a DualTech type sensor in addition to magnetic contacts to each opening accessible door. In view of your comment about entry through a window I may forgo this detector. I may fit contact to gas locker as having spent a few £100 on gaslow might be worth protecting. Not going for imobiliser as I am more concerned about my contents and the casual intruder. If somebody wants to steel the lot then they will be well aware how to overcome. Any suggetsions appreciated.

Hamish

It was the cab window I was intending to refer to, not the caravan windows.  The cab windows are toughened glass, and therefore very easy to break.  Once broken a thief could climb in, but it is hardly easy and certainly not subtle!  I wouldn't wish to comment on the other aspects of alarming a van, I don't have an alarm, and am not generally convinced they achieve much.  However, one does what one is comfortable with.  If you sleep better with the alarm, that's clearly the best way to go.

[g4oip]

All noted with interest the various thoughts on security and as I have finished fitting mine at quite low cost I can only hope that they will be effective.I have v. stong door armrests and have fitted 8mm welded link chain across doors. Also have Disclock and alarm sensors at cab end so that the van alarm will go off when and if the quarterlights are removed.Also fitted at front is a battery operated sensor alarm that my vox. radio can transmit to me if I am in the Supermarket or wherever. That takes care of the cab and all windows have small alarms fitted [few quid each] and another sensor alarm curtesey of Lidl with 2 sirens on it and keypad entry. However I have the large 'D' handle locked over the van door but thought I would see how quiclkly I could brean in and it takes5-10 secs to open each window catch with a bent piece ot tool steel rod so allowing 3/4 mins for in grab and away not too good really so I have now fitted small sliding bolts with a small gap between the two parts so that with 2 split rings from a security place [blagged for nothing] fitted into a drilled hole in each catch its impossible to spring the windows and looks neat as they are brass and VISIBLE from outside.

[Basil]

Our alarm we set every night with the internal sensors switched off, so you have a perimeter alarm on all external doors and the warning LED's are flashing. We also have a steering wheel lock bar that is visual until you put the screens up! 8-)

I believe one thing that people forget is that when we make an attempt to break into our motorhomes to test our defenses we are careful because we don't want to damage them. After seeing how the thieves got into some locally attempted stolen caravans they literally crow barred open the acrylic windows must have taken all of 2 seconds to break the plastic catches and on one they crowbarred the habitation door complete with security bar lock, similar to the Fiamma one described here, it made about as much resistance as a hot knife through butter. Sorry if they want it they will get it but if it makes you happy put on all the devices you like.

 

Bas

[Brian Kirby]

And that, Basil, I think, says it all!

[enodreven]

Hi,

 

Just one thing about the Faimma "D" handle and its counterpart e.g. the additional lock that the "D" can be locked into. Be vary careful and check the clearances before fitting one of these as just before i drilled the holes i checked and found that there was hardly enough space between the opened door and the body and i really feel that if i had fitted it and the door had been caught in the wind as often happens it I really would have punched a hole in the GRP. so double check before you fit one to make sure there is sufficient space??

 

 

Oh and by the way I actually think the steel cable with padlock between the 2 doors does work and acts as a Visual Deterant in line with the orginal thread ?

 

Hope that helps

 

 

[Mike B.]

I've got the ultimate visual deterent-

An A4 laminated photo of the mother-in-law. It's worked as a deterent over the years-

1) put in the fireplace, kept the kids & grandkids away from the fire

2) show it the dog to make her wake up and be a bit agressive

3) placed on the door stopped dishcloth sellers & gypsies away,

4) put it in the cab window under your silverscreen and it will keep the world & its wife away from your van.

If you want a copy just email me but be prepared you will need a strong stomach

Mike

[icelander]

No need thank you - I have a picture with dart holes an all - of the mother in law who I have not spoken to for over 11 years. A 20 stone force to be reckoned with!