jirex Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 I'm considering having a pair of Gaslow refillable cylinders fitted to our Autosleeper Amethyst (1999) by CMR at Yateley Surrey. Cost could be about £550 including fitting depending on options taken. Have any members any feedback of having this work done and the benefits / risks of using them. What is the availability of lpg in Europe and its use in cold weather conditions (-5C). Is the lpg sold in filling stations suitable ? Does it have a mix of propoane and butane ? Alternatively we could have a bulk tank fitted by MTH Autogas in Gloucestershire for about £585. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 jirex - 2007-03-07 6:06 PM I'm considering having a pair of Gaslow refillable cylinders fitted to our Autosleeper Amethyst (1999) by CMR at Yateley Surrey. Cost could be about £550 including fitting depending on options taken. Have any members any feedback of having this work done and the benefits / risks of using them. What is the availability of lpg in Europe and its use in cold weather conditions (-5C). Is the lpg sold in filling stations suitable ? Does it have a mix of propoane and butane ? Alternatively we could have a bulk tank fitted by MTH Autogas in Gloucestershire for about £585. Hi jirex We had two 11kg gaslow's fitted to our new van last year by Autogas2000 in Thirsk. One thing to consider when having it fitted is where to put the filler point. Some have tried it in the gas locker door but this does cause flexing of the pipework on opening/closing the door and may have been responsible for causing reported leaks. We had ours mounted in the side skirt beneath the gas locker with the pipe running up through one of the drop out vents - but our skirts are heavy duty aluminium and can carry the weight of the filler nozzle at the pumps. They have been great though - a definite candidate for the best accessory we have had fitted. The fitting wasn't as expensive as you have been quoted but, in any case, the cost of filling up is around half that we were paying for Calor refills. Other benefits include - no lugging cylinders around or juggling them in and out of the locker, once the first cylinder is empty just turn to the other and get a fill up at a suitable garage when you can (we have a manual changeover fitted), better availability around Europe etc. The reason we chose refillable cylinders instead of a fixed tank was that they can be removed and refitted to another van (if and when we change) easier than a fixed tank. Yes the lpg sold at filling stations is OK and, in this country will be suitable down to -5, but in various parts of the continent the lpg is a mixture of propane/butane and can dilute the effectiveness of the anti-freezing properties as butane does not gas as easily in cold weather as propane. If you have filled up on the continent try to refill with UK propane to get the mixture back up to nearer 100% again when you can. Enjoy the motorhome, best regards, David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 Hello jirex, There is a wealth of information on this site if you can find it with the search system, never been very successful myself though so just a couple of observations. That seems an awfully high cost for a pair of Gaslows. 2x11kg @ £90 = £180, 1xfilling kit at £60, then either twin cylinder adaptor £22 or new twin changeover regulator £38. So that is max £278 or min £262 plus half hours work. Some dealers will give 5 or 10% off these prices for Caravan Club membership. DIYed my own easy job if you can change a cylinder yourself and drill a hole. Benefit i don't have to lug cylinders about anymore and I can get gas anywhere in Europe without any fiddling about or having unwanted extra cylinders on board and the gas cost is less than half the price of Calor. Risks no more than with Calors. Available almost anywhere in Europe, but you may have to plan fill ups if you go to Spain for extended periods. Never had a problem myself anywhere. Yes the LPG in filling stations is suitable though if you can get them topped up at a domestic filler it is far cheaper because the tax is lower. The UK supplies are all Propane but it is a Propane/ Butane mix in Europe which has the possibility of giving problems in extended stays in very sub zero temperatures as the Butane doesn't gas leaving a partly filled cylinder that will only then accept a reduced fill. At the price you have been quoted I would seriously consider the bulk tank but remember it will not be so easy to move to a new Motorhome. Hope that helps Bas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteS Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 Looking at the 2 prices you quote I would have thought a proper tank would be the best option, providing you have the room for it. This would then free up your gas locker for additional storage. Mind, I also think the quote for 2 gaslow bottles is a bit over the top. Have you considered DIY it is not difficult with a bit of care. Providing you can use a spanner and drill should be no problem. I would advise that if you go the DIY route to get the 70mm tank cutter it makes the job a lot neater and easier. This is what I did and I got the cutter from my local hardware store. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jirex Posted March 7, 2007 Author Share Posted March 7, 2007 Thanks for the responses. The information is very much appreciated. I'll review the costs with CMR as maybe I've priced in options that are not really needed. I think their price included for the gas in 2 tanks, stainless steel connection pipes, different adaptors (UK, France, European), and about £80 for fitting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 jirex - 2007-03-07 7:32 PM I think their price included for the gas in 2 tanks, stainless steel connection pipes, different adaptors (UK, France, European), and about £80 for fitting. Ok so the gas cost is £14.28, the stainless pipes are included in the filler kit and with the second cylinder, you don't need an adaptor for UK thats the filling kit and the two European adaptors cost £11 and £7.49 respectively. So add £32.77 to the previous prices stated and that is the DIY cost for the same installation. Bas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnP Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 jirex for your info I have recently installed the Gaslow system. The parts were purchased from Brownhills at Swindon last year when they had a promotion. Costs will almost certainly have risen over the past months. Costs as follows. 11 Kg Cylinder £89.88 6Kg Cylinder £79.31 Fill Kit £52.87 Second Cylinder hose £45.34 French/Italian and Euro Adapters £27.75 2 0.45m Hoses £16.89 Total £266.60 I think that you are being well overcharged for the kit and the fitting. Agreeing with what has already been said, I suggest that you shop around Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest starspirit Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 I remain unconvinced? You've gotta buy a lot of gas to justify that sort of cost and unless you spend a lot of time abroad the whole caper seems a bit OTT? A 6kg bottle lasts us about three weeks (diesel heating) and we don't use hook ups to preserve gas at all. So two 6kg Calor bottles and one Camping Gaz 907 which fits snugly secured in an external locker (with adaptor and pigtail) guarantees us 6 weeks gas. Unless you go away for more than 6 weeks think about it first? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Hol Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 Hi, The main reason for having a Gaslow system installed is for convenience, NOT to save money. In that respect, it is worth having, in my opinion. Whilst DIY fitting is fairly easy, consider the possible issues that this could bring. For gas fitting to be completely legal, on a motorhome, I believe that it must be either fitted by a "competent person", or the system approved by a "competent person". Unless the DIY'er has the necessary qualifications, then they are not, legally, "a competent person. In reality,all of this would probably not matter, unless an accident occurred. You can easily work out the possible implications for yourself. The full cost of having a Gaslow system installed professionally a Gaslow approved installer, including gauges and the internal remote gas indicator, is often in the region of £500. Happy Camping, Mike Hol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 starspirit - 2007-03-07 8:51 PM I remain unconvinced? You've gotta buy a lot of gas to justify that sort of cost and unless you spend a lot of time abroad the whole caper seems a bit OTT? A 6kg bottle lasts us about three weeks (diesel heating) and we don't use hook ups to preserve gas at all. So two 6kg Calor bottles and one Camping Gaz 907 which fits snugly secured in an external locker (with adaptor and pigtail) guarantees us 6 weeks gas. Unless you go away for more than 6 weeks think about it first? Not quite sure what you are saying here starspirit, do you only use your van 6 weeks per year then? Do you not use gas in the UK? Your costs are (using figures when I last checked) 2x6kg @£13.60p per exchange = £27.20 One 907 @ £9.70 so thats £36.90 for six weeks and for (roughly) 32litres of gas. One Gaslow refill of 42litres cost @ £0.34p (domestic rate) = £14.28, the saving is therefore £36.90 - £14.28 = £22.62. So every six weeks of use you save £22.62 at your usage, so the Gaslows are paid for after 10 refills and in profit there after, after 15 years they will definately at least pay for themselves and with no swapping or lugging of cylinders and no worry of where you are going to get gas if you were to go abroad. No additional cylinder clogging up space or being stored in a compartment not designed for the carriage of gas! Peace of mind alone makes them worth every penny in my book. Bas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 Mike Hol - 2007-03-07 9:32 PM Whilst DIY fitting is fairly easy, consider the possible issues that this could bring. For gas fitting to be completely legal, on a motorhome, I believe that it must be either fitted by a "competent person", or the system approved by a "competent person". Unless the DIY'er has the necessary qualifications, then they are not, legally, "a competent person. Happy Camping, Mike Hol. This is incorrect there are no legal requirements on a Motorhome for any specific person to install. The Gas Safety Regulations specifically exclude motorhomes and caravans. Bas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Hol Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 Hi Bas, Thanks for that, but I was under the impression that Dave Newell had to have an approved Gas instruction course, at some expense, in order to legally carry out gas servicing/installations, on motorhomes. Perhaps I misunderstood what he was saying. Happy Camping, Mike Hol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 I believe you will find that Dave, being the honourable and conciensous man he is, wanted to undertake the course to ensure he had the grounding and an understanding to be confident in carrying out full habitation checks including gas safety inspection to a standard that he felt was comensurate with his business. I also believe that he was aware that there was no legal obligation for him to do it but that is a measure of the standards he sets himself. Bas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jirex Posted March 7, 2007 Author Share Posted March 7, 2007 Thanks all for the advice this evening. I've certainly increased my understanding of the gas debate. Before proceeding I'll have a long discussion on the costs. We do spend up to 4 weeks on the continenet at a time and have had the inconvenience of buying a French cylinder (which did not fit the locker !) and the reselling it on return to Calais. Although we do have a Webasto diesel heater, (fitted as an extra when new in 1999 although the dealer couldn't see why we needed it), which is fantastic for heating especially in winter and for the comfort of any rear passengers when on the move, very quick build up to a good temperature and of course this saves using the gas. My main reason is for convenience and some cost saving. regards Jirex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrytraveller Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 Mike, I would think that if you are installing someone elses system for payment, you need to have some sort qualification, if only to have your work and all parties insured, a gas installers certification would be the minimum acceptable for an insurer to accept you for that type of business, I would have thought. Regards Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 Mike and Terry, I repeat, there is no legal obligation at all and motorhomes are expressly excluded from the Gas Safety Regulations. There is however one exception to this and that is when a motorhome is being hired out by a hire company, all privately owned and used are not covered by the Act no matter who carries out the work. It is a loophole that may be revisited but currently that is how it stands. Mike if you have a diesel fired heater then your gas usage will be well down on what has been quoted so the financial side may not be in your favour, however I still feel on balance of probability that they will pay for themselves over their useful life so the convenience will be your bonus. Bas Edit for typo and addition Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Frank Wilkinson Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 I've had the Gaslow system fitted. Everything isn't always about money and I'm not the slightest bit interested in how long it will take to pay for itself. The convenience of not having to worry about British cylinders expiring in Europe and no longer having to lug cylinders to the dealer for replacement is worth every penny to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MandyAndy Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 We had 2 gaslow tanks fitted before we picked ours up, a 6kg and llkg tanks, stainless steel hose, Gauge, change over fitting, and external filling kit, in all it came to £235, so I should certainly have a look at your costing. We had it done at Geof Cox in Derby, excellent service so far, friendly approachable and always speaking to the person dealing with it as they are a small family concern. This was only a month ago so can't see prices have gone up that much in such a short time Mandy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 Basil is absolutely correct, there is a clear exclusion in the gas regulations for motorhomes and the like unless they are hired out in the course of a business. I chose to take the gas competence course to ensure I could do the work properly and safely, but it would be very difficult to find an insurer who would cover proffessional liability on gas installation work without some sort of recognised qualification. I can supply and install the Gaslow system but as Bas says if you can change a gas cylinder and can drill a hole you can fit Gaslow yourself. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickt Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 Can you give a contact number for your fitter in Derby. Just had a quote from CMR £340.00 for one 11k bottle, filling kit. change over valve to existing 6k calor. (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 MickT, why not contact Gaslow direct and get a price from them for supply only? Google "gaslow" for their website. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrytraveller Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 See Basil - Dave agrees with me about insurance for paid work carried out ! Regards Terry :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest starspirit Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 It might be worth contacting Dave Wade Smith at www.continentalproducts.co.uk as he may be able to supply these parts as mentioned in his thread 'Failing Gas Regulators'. And no I'm not on commission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 Fair enough Terry that may well be the case, wouldn't argue about that as I don't know I have never tried to obtain any cover and if I did I can prove competance, but I am not sure how they could justify such an exclusion when there is no legal requirement to be qualified. Dave actually says 'difficult' not impossible by the way. I can see that in the event there be an incident that was considered to be the fault of the installer that probably the HSE might have an interest, but then that is the same with any accident or occurance within the work envioronment. Bas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 Dave Newell - 2007-03-08 10:02 AM MickT, why not contact Gaslow direct and get a price from them for supply only? Google "gaslow" for their website. D. If you want to find out the costs online try www.east-coast-leisure.co.uk they give 5% discount on their prices for Caravan Club members. Or if you are northerly try www.waudbys.co.uk/products/refillable_cylinders.html who are still quoting last years price for the cylinders and the refill kit! Bas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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