Slow computer fix.

[Brian Kirby]

In 2016 I bought a Lenovo ThinkCentre M800 desktop PC. Win 10 Pro, 64bit. 500GB HDD plus 4GB RAM.

 

A year later it was running very slowly, and appeared continually to be reading/writing to its hard drive. I contacted Lenovo under warranty and was advised, somewhat laconically, that the hard drive was failing, and they would send a new one. I pointed out that this was a three year on site warranty, and I expected an engineer to do the major surgery. I was then, equally laconically, advised that Lenovo regarded hard drives as user replaceable components! Hmmmmm!

 

So, the new drive duly arrived in the post, with a USB drive containing the essentials to re-install the operating system.

 

In the meantime, I'd been looking for salvation, as I had a fair range of settings, data, pictures, and programs on the computer that I wanted to retain and I did not want to have to spend large amounts of time copying data etc and reinstalling programs from scratch. Fortunately, salvation arrived when I discovered Macrium Reflect, which is a free disk cloning program.

 

I then had to obtain an external USB disk caddy, into which the new drive could be installed (thanks PC World!) to enable the cloning to take place. Once set up, and with more than a little trepidation, I commenced the cloning process - following detailed instructions obtained over the 'net. It appeared to have worked well, so with even more trepidation I opened the box, removed the failing drive, and swapped in the new. I then reassembled, and (with even more even more trepidation :-)), switch on. Result? Result!! :-D

 

So to early this year, when the computer again began displaying much the same problem but, with the three year warranty now expired, I began searching for the cause. Web research revealed that the Western Digital hard drives of the type installed by Lenovo had been hybrid drives that incorporated a solid state (SSD) "front end" coupled to a conventional 5,000rpm mechanical drive that was a) widely "dissed" in various technical reviews and b) not replaceable like for like. But, I also discovered widespread advice that a) swapping conventional hard drives for SSD drives would bring considerable performance advantages and b) that the original installed 4GB of RAM was borderline and an additional 4GB was recommended.

 

After a bit more searching I decided it was either a new PC, or a new hard drive plus the extra 4GB RAM, and that I could again use Macrium Reflect to clone the drive over (subject to the new drive being of the same size or larger than the original). So, off to CCL Computers (from whom I had previously bought two laptops, and had developed confidence in for their sound advice and reliable service) to get myself the new SSD plus two matched 4GB memory cards, plus, to be safe, an anti-static wrist strap for use while poking around inside the computer.

 

Once all the bits were assembled I did as above, using Reflect to clone the old disk to the new (I had to buy a new USB disk caddy for this, as the new disk could not be read with the older one) then opening the box and installing the new memory cards in lieu of the original, swapping over the disks, close the box, hold my breath, and switch on. The difference was extraordinary. The boot time is now a few seconds in lieu of minutes, ditto the shut-down, ditto program starts, ditto saves, ditto programs like AutoRoute, which now calculates routes faster than it ever has, and Google Earth, which opens faster, and runs Street View quicker than before. In short, the machine is completely transformed.

 

So much so that I got completely carried away, and repeated the exercise on my Wife's (which already had 8GB RAM) , and my own, Toshiba laptops! Both these had faster (7,200 rpm) conventional hard drives from new - though mine (2013 vintage ) ran a legacy BIOS instead of MBR, (which both the later pc's used, launching another wayside research project!) which caused an initial cock-up. Results all similar to the desktop, 'though, with better initial disks, not such marked, but still significant, performance improvements.

 

So, why am I telling you all this? Well, first and foremost, because of the performance benefit gained in all instances, and second because the cost, even in the case of the desktop with a 1TB SSD and 8GB RAM, was in the region of £180 in total for parts - so well below the cost of replacing the whole PC.

 

Would it work for you? I can't say for certain because I'm no computer technician (though there are a few on here who are far more technically knowledgeable than me, so could undoubtedly advise) and b) there are too many variables. But, if you have a pc that is a) running slowly and b) has only 4GB RAM installed, it may well repay investigating to see whether swapping your conventional hard drive for an SSD drive, and/or adding memory if you have only 4GB installed, might bring improvement. If anyone wants to know more, PM me, and I'll explain what more I can.

[Barryd999]

Nice one Brian. SSD is the way to go but if your a data hoarder and you go for a smaller capacity SSD drive than your original you need to change the way you work or back it off onto the normal USB caddy drive.

 

If people dont want to be bothered with all the cloning kit and what have you then there are traders on ebay selling SSD Drives with Windows 10 pre installed. You will still need to copy all your data over and install programs though but I often think a fresh start with a new clean OS is better anyway, especially after four years or so. RAM is always key. 8gb min.

[Brian Kirby]

There was a further stage I went through to settle any Windows related issues, that seems to have worked equally well. I didn't want to make an already long post even longer, so I omitted it!

 

This was to carry out a repair install of Windows 10 via an in-place upgrade using an ISO file. Found that on the net as well - from an excellent, clear, detailed, illustrated, step by step tutorial article on Ten Forums.

 

I just printed it off and followed the instructions. :-) It seems to give the same benefits as a clean install, but retains your settings etc plus your personal files and apps. Only for Win 10, though. Earlier versions are not served.

 

How's the CP, by the way?

[Bulletguy]

 

Blimey......after just one year? That's the shortest 'life' i've known for a drive! :-|

 

My Dell desktop is now just over six years old and the original 1tb C drive with all my programmes on, still running perfectly. In addition i'm running a 6tb Seagate hd as my D drive and everything on that is backed up on an external 6tb drive i only connect as and when i want to transfer anything.

 

As Barry said, SSD is the way to go but large capacity ones are still hellishly expensive. Seagate are a bit more expensive than Western Digital but worth it. Most new pc's come with SSD now for your main drive and standard HD is ok for secondary drives....as long as you keep the files/folders backed up.

[colin]

SSD's have dropped in price quite a bit, have had 256gb ultra books for a few years now and the one I'm typing this on has 134gb on it so far, funny enough gf's laptop is reaching it's sell by date and have been looking at 512gb Dells.

[Bulletguy]

colin - 2020-04-04 6:39 PM

 

SSD's have dropped in price quite a bit, have had 256gb ultra books for a few years now and the one I'm typing this on has 134gb on it so far, funny enough gf's laptop is reaching it's sell by date and have been looking at 512gb Dells.

A 500 for C drive would probably suffice for me as i've only used 200gb of that particular drive so certainly if/when it eventually goes belly up i would go down that route. Big capacity drives should eventually start dropping.

[Barryd999]

SSD drives have come down in price a fair bit but the trouble lately has been finding off the shelf PC's at low prices that have anything bigger than a 256gb SSD so Ive been getting bespoke builds for the odd few I knock out. I dont do them myself, I have a supplier with an engineering division to do all that, way too time consuming and costly otherwise. All knocked on the head now and supplies are pretty grim.

 

Some PC's now coming through with larger SSD drives, 500gb which makes more sense for business.

 

Brian, the refresh install is a good option if its already running Windows 10. I have tried a fair few upgrades from Windows 7 to 10 using the "Keep data and apps" option but they all fall over or take days to complete. I just blow them away now and wipe the entire drive. I was onto a nice little earner before all this Coronavirus stuff started. Selling new SSD windows PC's to replace the now unsupported W7 PC's and then upgrading the old ones to W10 and punting them out on Ebay for beer money. (lol) I still have two i5 towers ready to go but Ive had to stop all that now.

 

Chickenpox is on the way out now but Im still not match fit. Been out cycling a few times but cant go very far.

[Brian Kirby]

Barryd999 - 2020-04-05 10:51 AM

1 ...…………….Brian, the refresh install is a good option if its already running Windows 10.……….

 

2 Chickenpox is on the way out now but Im still not match fit. Been out cycling a few times but cant go very far.

1 This was a different method: see what you think here https://tinyurl.com/jkuwy6r

 

I used it on all three computers and it worked exactly as described. However, see the provisos regarding windows edition, dates etc. It takes a while, but not excessive and, providing the version being installed is the exact equivalent of, or is more recent than, that already on the PC, it seems to work flawlessly. Definitely quicker overall than a clean install, not least because all data, apps, programs etc are retained while just the operating system is updated. Only for Win 10, though.

 

2 Excellent! :-)

[Brian Kirby]

Bulletguy - 2020-04-04 5:17 PM

 

Blimey......after just one year? That's the shortest 'life' i've known for a drive! :-| .......................

Yes, that surprised me at the time. However, the way the tech just diagnosed the problem without carrying out any tests himself, and only on the basis of my description, surprised me. I was also a bit surprised that the replacement doubled the original drive size to !TB.

 

I think Lenovo had probably already discovered that those WD hybrid drives were flawed.

 

Simply put, the 8GB SSD "front end" didn't integrate successfully with the conventional "back end", so the intended advantage of the former for fast data handling and the latter for storage was quickly overtaken by program bloat, so that simple tasks were requiring page files that were being written to what was a slow disk - especially with several programs open at once.

 

At least, that is my non-technical rationalisation of what was happening! The 8GB SSD was common to both the 500GB and the 1TB versions of the drive, so supplying the latter to fix the problem on the former was arguably not the brightest idea! However, now fixed, and so much improved as a result. Only problem is, It won't make toast any more! :-D

[Barryd999]

Brian Kirby - 2020-04-05 2:41 PM

 

Barryd999 - 2020-04-05 10:51 AM

1 ...…………….Brian, the refresh install is a good option if its already running Windows 10.……….

 

2 Chickenpox is on the way out now but Im still not match fit. Been out cycling a few times but cant go very far.

1 This was a different method: see what you think here https://tinyurl.com/jkuwy6r

 

I used it on all three computers and it worked exactly as described. However, see the provisos regarding windows edition, dates etc. It takes a while, but not excessive and, providing the version being installed is the exact equivalent of, or is more recent than, that already on the PC, it seems to work flawlessly. Definitely quicker overall than a clean install, not least because all data, apps, programs etc are retained while just the operating system is updated. Only for Win 10, though.

 

2 Excellent! :-)

 

I tend to use the media creation USB which I keep in my bag of tricks with the latest version on but as said its mainly for going from 7 to 10. I think however from memory without looking you can arrive at that refresh menu without a USB on most systems. Either on boot up or through system recovery. I think.

 

Anyway you sound like your a bit of a guru now Brian. Its quite satisfying when you sort something like this for yourself. I tend not to do it for clients as the costs are too prohibitive. I just end up selling them a new PC. Four years old I would be advising them to upgrade anyway.

 

By the way if anyone is interested I have yet to come across a Windows 7 PC that I have upgraded to Windows 10 that has not validated the licence for free using the USb creator tool. Most of these will be Windows 7 Pro PCs under 5 years old, maybe its different with the home edition and really old PCs. I think the newer ones it picks up the licencing from the bios. It seems to be a bit of a myth that the windows 10 upgrade is not free.

[Bulletguy]

Barryd999 - 2020-04-05 10:51 AM

 

SSD drives have come down in price a fair bit but the trouble lately has been finding off the shelf PC's at low prices that have anything bigger than a 256gb SSD.....

My Dell desktop is an 8500 i7 3.40Ghz running the standard 8gb ram which i could up to a max of 32 but haven't bothered. It came with Win8 on 1tb drive and facility to upgrade to 10 for free which i didn't after reading more negs than positives on it, particularly as i didn't relish the possibility of certain software i'd got installed not running. It cost £628 brand new from Dell seven years ago. I've looked at their site a few times since and a similar spec d/top would cost close to a grand now though it would come with SSD.

 

My secondary drive (6tb Seagate) is only two years old so that should be ok for a bit. Refurbed 8500's with i7 sell on ebay around £500 - 600 so i might consider one of those sometime.

[Barryd999]

Bulletguy - 2020-04-05 3:40 PM

 

Barryd999 - 2020-04-05 10:51 AM

 

SSD drives have come down in price a fair bit but the trouble lately has been finding off the shelf PC's at low prices that have anything bigger than a 256gb SSD.....

My Dell desktop is an 8500 i7 3.40Ghz running the standard 8gb ram which i could up to a max of 32 but haven't bothered. It came with Win8 on 1tb drive and facility to upgrade to 10 for free which i didn't after reading more negs than positives on it, particularly as i didn't relish the possibility of certain software i'd got installed not running. It cost £628 brand new from Dell seven years ago. I've looked at their site a few times since and a similar spec d/top would cost close to a grand now though it would come with SSD.

 

My secondary drive (6tb Seagate) is only two years old so that should be ok for a bit. Refurbed 8500's with i7 sell on ebay around £500 - 600 so i might consider one of those sometime.

 

8gb of RAM should be enough for most. My last laptop had 12gb but was knackered in less than three years, I slung it in the wheelie the other day, its been sat under my desk since it literally fell to bits last year. My current Thinkpad is 8gb, 360gb SSD. I do sometimes fill the RAM though but thats just me doing too many things at the same time.

 

Not sure I would want to be paying £500-600 for a referb thats 7 year old though. You will probably find a new i5 thats quicker and more efficient for that sort of money (maybe).