davidmiller66 Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 I drained the MH of water (not going to be used for a while!) and when I drained the shower head (I use the Floe water draining system - https://keepfloeing.com ), some reddish water came out the showerhead. Initially clear, then reddish colour, then clear again. The colour was sort of like strong Ribena, once made in the glass. I'm guessing it is perhaps water discolouration from the red pipes or maybe from a seal in the shower tap. Dunno. We have a Chausson. Anybody else seen this? I'm a bit concerned I might have some bad contamination or something and need to flush it out. The kitchen and bathroom were fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 I've not experienced it in a van but it sounds like algae to me. A dilute bleach in water solution might clear it as might Milton sterilising but don't leave either solution in contact with anything metal or stainless steel as they can be corrosive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will86 Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 1. It sounds like you never drain the system normally, that's not good policy as it never allows you to assess any problems, which you have now discovered. If you were of military personage it would be criminal if you failed to regularly drain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flicka Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 I'm also suspecting algae is the cause & may only have been in the shower hose. I'd simply remove the shower hose & place it in a bucket of water with sterilising fluid added. Also do the same for the shower head. That should remove any algae remaining, but if the water shows any remnants of red, repeat. You didn't mention if drain was turned to hot or cold, If turned to hot, it's possible that water heater is the source, so a full system sterilising would be required. Also if possible view the fresh water tank internally, to see if any trace in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtravel Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 Citric acid is sometimes a good solution for cleaning tanks, pipes, taps and even water heaters. Also to dissolve and eliminate any limescale deposits. It is usually sold as a powder to be melted in some water, instructions on the quantity to be used should be indicated on the package. If it is already sold as a liquid, a 5% dilution is usually enough. It is absolutely not toxic. You should be able to find it with those who sell agricultural products, in Italy it is at least so. Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will86 Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 Me thinks another scammer here, gives all false info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 Will86 - 2020-04-11 4:56 PM Me thinks another scammer here, gives all false info Will, Who are you referring to? If the OP then he has been on the forum since 2016 and previously posted about his Chausson so I have no doubt to his integrity. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 I dunno what Will is on - but can I have some please! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 It’s perhaps worth noting that (in his original posting) David Miller stated that he had used the Floe draining system. David’s link did not originally work (I’ve tweaked it so it does now) but the Floe system is described here https://keepfloeing.com/ Unlike the basic ‘gravity’ draining procedure normally employed by motorcaravanners, the Floe procedure involves draining down the motorhome’s water system in the usual manner, then using compressed air to pressurise the water system and expel from water outlets (taps and shower-head) residual water remaining in the water hoses. This is a quite ‘aggressive’ process and, if it has not been done for a while (or is the first time that it has been done) it is to expected that any solid residue lurking in the hoses will be ejected from the water outlets. The red colourant may come from sand build-up in one of the hoses, where the sand particles were so fine that they passed easily through any filter attached to the water pump and only showed when forced through the shower-head by the Floe process. It doesn’t sound like algae to me as that’s normally black. (I use compressed air when I drain down my Rapido and ‘black bits’ that are undoubtedly algae invariably get spat out of the toilret’s flushing outlet.) Personally, I wouldn’t be concerned about this, but it might be worth David checking the cleanliness of the inside of his Chausson’s fresh-water tank (assuming that’s practicable) and the condition of any filter that’s in the motorhome’s water system. Cleaning a motohome’s water system with citric acid was mentioned in this 2018 forum discussion https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Water-System-Cleaning-with-Citric-Acid/50113/ As mentioned in my 14 November 2007 8:30 AM posting here https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Thetford-Cassette-toilet-Vent-Seal/9617/ citric acid has other uses... ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevec176 Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 With the Floe system you have to use forced air, usually from a tyre inflation pump, depending on what thats been used on before it might be worth checking how clean the air from it is too. Could be rusty internally if not used for a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtravel Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 Derek Uzzell - 2020-04-12 8:59 AM ... Cleaning a motohome’s water system with citric acid was mentioned in this 2018 forum discussion https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Water-System-Cleaning-with-Citric-Acid/50113/ I see that in the indicated thread someone talks about white vinegar. For example, it is recommended by Webasto for the periodic (annual) cleaning of the Dual Top combined heater / boiler and its drain. It works but BE CAREFUL: If not perfectly rinsed, the vinegar could leave deposits that quickly turn into mother of vinegar with the result of clogging all the pipes. I guarantee that it happened to me, meters of mother of vinegar in the pipes. Fortunately only those of cold water. Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidmiller66 Posted April 12, 2020 Author Share Posted April 12, 2020 Will86 - 2020-04-11 3:08 PM 1. It sounds like you never drain the system normally, that's not good policy as it never allows you to assess any problems, which you have now discovered. If you were of military personage it would be criminal if you failed to regularly drain. Well, indeed I understand how you might say that. However, I drain it every time we come back from a trip. As for military, well lets just say I know exactly what you mean ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidmiller66 Posted April 12, 2020 Author Share Posted April 12, 2020 Will86 - 2020-04-11 4:56 PM Me thinks another scammer here, gives all false info Leave it Fella. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidmiller66 Posted April 12, 2020 Author Share Posted April 12, 2020 Derek Uzzell - 2020-04-12 8:59 AM It’s perhaps worth noting that (in his original posting) David Miller stated that he had used the Floe draining system. David’s link did not originally work (I’ve tweaked it so it does now) but the Floe system is described here https://keepfloeing.com/ Unlike the basic ‘gravity’ draining procedure normally employed by motorcaravanners, the Floe procedure involves draining down the motorhome’s water system in the usual manner, then using compressed air to pressurise the water system and expel from water outlets (taps and shower-head) residual water remaining in the water hoses. This is a quite ‘aggressive’ process and, if it has not been done for a while (or is the first time that it has been done) it is to expected that any solid residue lurking in the hoses will be ejected from the water outlets. The red colourant may come from sand build-up in one of the hoses, where the sand particles were so fine that they passed easily through any filter attached to the water pump and only showed when forced through the shower-head by the Floe process. It doesn’t sound like algae to me as that’s normally black. (I use compressed air when I drain down my Rapido and ‘black bits’ that are undoubtedly algae invariably get spat out of the toilret’s flushing outlet.) Personally, I wouldn’t be concerned about this, but it might be worth David checking the cleanliness of the inside of his Chausson’s fresh-water tank (assuming that’s practicable) and the condition of any filter that’s in the motorhome’s water system. Cleaning a motohome’s water system with citric acid was mentioned in this 2018 forum discussion https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Water-System-Cleaning-with-Citric-Acid/50113/ As mentioned in my 14 November 2007 8:30 AM posting here https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Thetford-Cassette-toilet-Vedidiffnt-Seal/9617/ citric acid has other uses... ;-) Hi Derek Many thanks for your contribution. I'm going to give the system a clean out anyway I think. The van 'deserves' it! But I tend to agree, difficult to imagine it's algae. If I'd seem black bits I'd know it was algae and put it down to a lack of cleaning. The reddish colour raised my eyebrowse. Thx again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 Whilst in many years I never saw red algae in any van of ours, I have seen it in garden hoses, pots, etc, particularly clear ones that are left with water in them open to light and UV exposure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 There's no doubt that algae can be red https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_tide but there seems to be nothing on-line (due to algae or anything else) that matches what David has described took place when he drained his motorhome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 More likely to be one fitting that has corrosion whilst sitting in the water, hence little bit of red then clear. Could be the shower head even. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 mtravel - 2020-04-12 11:00 AM Derek Uzzell - 2020-04-12 8:59 AM ... Cleaning a motohome’s water system with citric acid was mentioned in this 2018 forum discussion https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Water-System-Cleaning-with-Citric-Acid/50113/ I see that in the indicated thread someone talks about white vinegar. For example, it is recommended by Webasto for the periodic (annual) cleaning of the Dual Top combined heater / boiler and its drain. It works but BE CAREFUL: If not perfectly rinsed, the vinegar could leave deposits that quickly turn into mother of vinegar with the result of clogging all the pipes. I guarantee that it happened to me, meters of mother of vinegar in the pipes. Fortunately only those of cold water. Max It’s perhaps worth mentioning that Truma’s historical advice on descaling their water boilers was that "wine vinegar" be employed, not “white vinegar” - though I’m pretty sure that using wine vinegar instead of white vinegar would not prevent mother of vinegar forming in pipework. The differences between “white vinegar” and “white wine vinegar” are explained here https://difference.guru/difference-between-white-vinegar-and-white-wine-vinegar/ and (one might think) it would make better sense to use the former for decalcifying a boiler. Descaling of Truma water boilers was discussed at some length here in 2008 https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Hints-and-Tips/Descaling-Truma-water-heater/13476/ Advice on ‘decalcifying’ a Truma Combi appliance is provided here https://www.truma.com/uk/en/faq/decalcify-truma-combi-heater.html The type of vinegar to be used is not specified and citric acid is mentioned as an alternative. Truma’s operating instructions for current Combi appliances just say Notes on cleaning, sterilising and care We recommend the use of suitable commercially available products to clean, sterilise and maintain the boiler. Products containing chlorine must not be used. The effectiveness of the use of chemicals to combat micro- organisms in the appliance can be increased by heating the water in the boiler to 70 °C at regular intervals. There is (French) on-line advice on decalcifying Truma boilers, either by filling just the boiler or by putting the vinegar in the fresh-water tank and pumping it from there to the boiler, but (I think) white vinegar rather than wine vinegar is being employed in the following two links. http://f.dichamp.pagesperso-orange.fr/boiler1.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidmiller66 Posted April 13, 2020 Author Share Posted April 13, 2020 Tracker - 2020-04-12 1:55 PM Whilst in many years I never saw red algae in any van of ours, I have seen it in garden hoses, pots, etc, particularly clear ones that are left with water in them open to light and UV exposure. I agree it being rather unusual. Hence me reaching out to you guys for opinions. I've now bought some Elsan Fresh Water Tank Cleaner (no Chlorine) of Amazon. I'll take the shower head, rose off and take a look there too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidmiller66 Posted April 13, 2020 Author Share Posted April 13, 2020 Derek Uzzell - 2020-04-13 8:09 AM mtravel - 2020-04-12 11:00 AM Derek Uzzell - 2020-04-12 8:59 AM ... Cleaning a motohome’s water system with citric acid was mentioned in this 2018 forum discussion https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Water-System-Cleaning-with-Citric-Acid/50113/ I see that in the indicated thread someone talks about white vinegar. For example, it is recommended by Webasto for the periodic (annual) cleaning of the Dual Top combined heater / boiler and its drain. It works but BE CAREFUL: If not perfectly rinsed, the vinegar could leave deposits that quickly turn into mother of vinegar with the result of clogging all the pipes. I guarantee that it happened to me, meters of mother of vinegar in the pipes. Fortunately only those of cold water. Max It’s perhaps worth mentioning that Truma’s historical advice on descaling their water boilers was that "wine vinegar" be employed, not “white vinegar” - though I’m pretty sure that using wine vinegar instead of white vinegar would not prevent mother of vinegar forming in pipework. The differences between “white vinegar” and “white wine vinegar” are explained here https://difference.guru/difference-between-white-vinegar-and-white-wine-vinegar/ and (one might think) it would make better sense to use the former for decalcifying a boiler. Descaling of Truma water boilers was discussed at some length here in 2008 https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Hints-and-Tips/Descaling-Truma-water-heater/13476/ Advice on ‘decalcifying’ a Truma Combi appliance is provided here https://www.truma.com/uk/en/faq/decalcify-truma-combi-heater.html The type of vinegar to be used is not specified and citric acid is mentioned as an alternative. Truma’s operating instructions for current Combi appliances just say Notes on cleaning, sterilising and care We recommend the use of suitable commercially available products to clean, sterilise and maintain the boiler. Products containing chlorine must not be used. The effectiveness of the use of chemicals to combat micro- organisms in the appliance can be increased by heating the water in the boiler to 70 °C at regular intervals. There is (French) on-line advice on decalcifying Truma boilers, either by filling just the boiler or by putting the vinegar in the fresh-water tank and pumping it from there to the boiler, but (I think) white vinegar rather than wine vinegar is being employed in the following two links. http://f.dichamp.pagesperso-orange.fr/boiler1.htm Thanks again Derek. I have the Truma Combi 6E so the info you mentio - "use of suitable commercially available products to clean, sterilise and maintain the boiler. Products containing chlorine must not be used." - is invaluable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtravel Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 Derek Uzzell - 2020-04-13 8:09 AM mtravel - 2020-04-12 11:00 AM Derek Uzzell - 2020-04-12 8:59 AM ... Cleaning a motohome’s water system with citric acid was mentioned in this 2018 forum discussion https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Water-System-Cleaning-with-Citric-Acid/50113/ I see that in the indicated thread someone talks about white vinegar. For example, it is recommended by Webasto for the periodic (annual) cleaning of the Dual Top combined heater / boiler and its drain. It works but BE CAREFUL: If not perfectly rinsed, the vinegar could leave deposits that quickly turn into mother of vinegar with the result of clogging all the pipes. I guarantee that it happened to me, meters of mother of vinegar in the pipes. Fortunately only those of cold water. Max It’s perhaps worth mentioning that Truma’s historical advice on descaling their water boilers was that "wine vinegar" be employed, not “white vinegar” - though I’m pretty sure that using wine vinegar instead of white vinegar would not prevent mother of vinegar forming in pipework. The differences between “white vinegar” and “white wine vinegar” are explained here https://difference.guru/difference-between-white-vinegar-and-white-wine-vinegar/ and (one might think) it would make better sense to use the former for decalcifying a boiler. Descaling of Truma water boilers was discussed at some length here in 2008 https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Hints-and-Tips/Descaling-Truma-water-heater/13476/ Advice on ‘decalcifying’ a Truma Combi appliance is provided here https://www.truma.com/uk/en/faq/decalcify-truma-combi-heater.html The type of vinegar to be used is not specified and citric acid is mentioned as an alternative. Truma’s operating instructions for current Combi appliances just say Notes on cleaning, sterilising and care We recommend the use of suitable commercially available products to clean, sterilise and maintain the boiler. Products containing chlorine must not be used. The effectiveness of the use of chemicals to combat micro- organisms in the appliance can be increased by heating the water in the boiler to 70 °C at regular intervals. There is (French) on-line advice on decalcifying Truma boilers, either by filling just the boiler or by putting the vinegar in the fresh-water tank and pumping it from there to the boiler, but (I think) white vinegar rather than wine vinegar is being employed in the following two links. http://f.dichamp.pagesperso-orange.fr/boiler1.htm I meant WHITE WINE VINEGAR. Sorry for the mistake, in Italy we don't use the "White Vinegar" from corn or other grain. Also I was talking about Webasto Dual Top (RHA-100 and later models). His operation manual (http://www.techwebasto.com/old/heater_main/Dualtop/om_9021211B_Dualtop.pdf) speaks of WINE WINEGAR. Which exists of two types: white and red. A Webasto service center specifically told me to use the White and NOT Red one. So WHITE WINE VINEGAR. Having said that, I repeat to be very careful about the final rinse. I repeat, it happened to me to find the pipes clogged by mother of winegar whose cleaning was long and obviously expensive. This I believe can happen regardless of whether the equipment is Webasto or Truma. Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 This 2018 forum thread also asked about descaling a boiler and may be of interest https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/D-scalling-boiler/49436/ The 24 May 2018 9:05 PM posting by “bobalobs” was as follows We have a Webasto dual top which has an aluminium boiler as I suspect is the case with the diesel Truma which I was told was developed by Eberspacher. After seven years the drop valve had seized solid with limescale . Fellow Webasto owners had tried descaling with citric acid with disastrous results and we were told to use white wine vinegar. Taking advice and searching the net a 20% mix seemed to be the choice and we left it all night on the hot water setting before flushing it through. A month or so later there was water everywhere and the vinegar had revealed holes we never knew existed!! I think current advice from Webasto is to exercise the drop valve regularly in the hope to stop it seizing and if it does to use the vinegar and heating for little more than an hour or so. For non owners the drop valve is designed to empty the tank if temperatures are approaching freezing and to avoid a new boiler at £500+ !! (Truma uses stainless-steel for their heaters’ water reservoirs.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 Many years ago we had an Eberspacher diesel heater/hot water system on an Autocruise Starlet and the drop valve siezed causing the tank to freeze and split. Appalled at the cost of a new unit and with nothing to lose I cut the expanded foam insulation casing open and got the hot water tank out to inspect and was able to solder up the burst which was two places along the joining seam of the two sections of tank. The replacement drop valve I sourced locally from a plumber's merchants, it was different but with minimal pipework alteration it did the job and the whole thing never gave any more trouble. We even carried a spare drop valve as it was so cheap but never needed it! I appreciate that you can't solder aluminium or stainess steel and I don't know if Eberspacher still use copper but a drop valve should be easy enough to source locally if needed, using the old one as a pattern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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