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PPE will last just three days


Bulletguy

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Clearly the Government are struggling, in the context of a woldwide shortage of PPEand the complete lack, before the outbreak, of a domestic supply source, to provide the huge amounts of PPE required for idealised utilisation,in order to provide the best possible protection.  In these circumstances Public Health England have issued guidance on how to make best use of such supplies as are available by reusing PPE when safe to do so and using alternatives as available and can be contrived.  This is an "all hands to the pumps" situation and healthcare staff need to use their initiative to make the best of it.  Whether or not the Government could have done better in the past is not important at the moment and those who are taking opportunities to score political points by criticising are worthy of contempt.

I have no sympathy for doctors, nurses etc who are moaning because the ideal sets of PPE are not all available or because they personally feel they need a higher level of  PPE and I have nothing but contempt for the healthcare union leaders who are telling their members to disengage from looking after patients because they are not getting the ideal sets of PPE which they feel they need.  Doctors and nurses have a duty to take risks, as necessary, to look after patients and they should get on with it.
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StuartO - 2020-04-20 7:59 AM

 

I have no sympathy for doctors, nurses etc who are moaning because the ideal sets of PPE are not all available or because they personally feel they need a higher level of  PPE....

 

Spoken from the safety of your home and sat behind a keyboard...Wow!

 

Would you have posted, or indeed said such a thing to your OH/son/daughter/grandson/granddaughter if THEY worked on the frontline? 8-)

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StuartO - 2020-04-20 7:59 AM   Doctors and nurses have a duty to take risks, as necessary, to look after patients and they should get on with it.

That's debateable.I had a quick look at the Hippocratic Oath this morning and didn't come across that bit. :-|
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pepe63 - 2020-04-20 9:05 AM  Spoken from the safety of your home and sat behind a keyboard...Wow!Would you have posted, or indeed said such a thing to your OH/son/daughter/grandson/granddaughter if THEY worked on the frontline? 8-)


I have not suggested anything beyond taking managed, proportionate risks and I don't believe adapting to PHE's new guidance to deal with shortages of PPE will amount to requiring people to take dangerous levels of risk. 

I have several relatives and friends who are working in healthcare on the front line and elsewhere who I am sure will currently be having to taking some risks.  They are doing what they have to do and I would not try to talk them out of it. I am a retired doctor and during my working life I did sometimes have to take personal risks in order to respond to patient needs; they were calulated risks but they were risks; there is no such thing in life as perfect, risk-free safety.  I swore the hippocratic oath when I graduated and as I recall there is no mention of risk taking - but nor is there any let-out from the duty of care because of risk either.

And by the way I  have volunteered to go back and help any way I can and I would be prepared to take managed risks in doing so if necessary, even though I am currently sheltering at home, as instructed, as a vulnerable old  man.  So far I am too old, too long retired and was the wrong sort of medical specialty anyway for my offer to be of any real use at the moment - but if they get to scraping the barrel deeply enough, I will do my best.
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Ironically a few minutes after posting the above, I got a phone call on behalf of the NHS pursuing my offer to come back to the NHS and I am responding constructively.  This could be a routine administrative thing wanting more information about me but perhaps they are scraping the barrel pretty deeply! No danger of me being asked to do any brain surgery but they might find something useful for me to do.

 

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I didn't see it all but from what I did see of the interview between Tony Blair and Victoria Derbyshire on TV this morning, Tony Blair was reluctant to criticise the government too much on it's handing of Covid-19.

 

Sure, with the benefit of hindsight, some aspects might well have been and continue to be handled differently, but at the time based on what was known at that time the very difficult decisions made were not absurdly wrong and given the far reaching impact of many of the decisions made any delays in implementation are understandable.

 

I know Tony Blair has his critics, again mainly with the benefit of the afore mentioned hindsight, but I considered that it was good to get a balanced view from an experienced opposition perspective, uninfluenced by media hype and distortion.

 

No doubt others will disagree, but that is the benefit of free speech and debate sadly missing from countries where state control is so invasive.

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Guest pelmetman
Bulletguy - 2020-04-19 2:26 PM

 

 

An emergency shipment of 84 tons of PPE from Turkey will last the NHS just three days.

 

https://tinyurl.com/yae2g25c

 

It was due to arrive today...........but,

 

https://tinyurl.com/y94pmm65

 

and why are companies like this who made offers to UK government "several weeks ago", still waiting to hear back? :-S

 

 

I recall a Labour Prime Minister sending folk to war lacking basic equipment :-| ........

 

He didn't have the excuse that the rest of the world was trying to buy boots or guns that worked *-) .......

 

Just sayin :-| .........

 

 

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StuartO - 2020-04-20 7:59 AM

 

I have no sympathy for doctors, nurses etc who are moaning because the ideal sets of PPE are not all available or because they personally feel they need a higher level of PPE and I have nothing but contempt for the healthcare union leaders who are telling their members to disengage from looking after patients because they are not getting the ideal sets of PPE which they feel they need. Doctors and nurses have a duty to take risks, as necessary, to look after patients and they should get on with it.

StuartO - 2020-04-20 9:46 AM

 

I am a retired doctor.....

Of what......spin or witchcraft? :-S

 

Either way i find your view point incredibly cavalier. You must surely know where PPE is required all must meet a standard and it's an employers responsibility (duty of care) to ensure the PPE provided meets that standard. Where 'scrubs' can be washed and reused other gowns and items of PPE are specifically designed for single use only.

 

 

I swore the hippocratic oath when I graduated and as I recall there is no mention of risk taking - but nor is there any let-out from the duty of care because of risk either.

Then if an md you will be aware of the Good Medical Practice which covers the core values and principles set by the GMC? It's a pdf file but 'risk to safety' is covered on page 13/14, sec 24, 25, 25b and 28

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It’s not difficult to imagine what the reason “at the Turkish end” for the delay collecting the PPE might be; I would guess that there’s some price jacking going on, not least because the Turkish end can’t fail to have seen the pressure our Government are being put under back here in UK. It wasn’t very clever to let it get out that 84 tons was supposed to be arriving on Sunday.

I don’t suppose for one minute that the journalists responsible for the fuss which has brewed up over this shipment will blame themselves for the extra cost they will have imposed on us.
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pelmetman - 2020-04-20 6:44 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2020-04-19 2:26 PM

 

 

An emergency shipment of 84 tons of PPE from Turkey will last the NHS just three days.

 

https://tinyurl.com/yae2g25c

 

It was due to arrive today...........but,

 

https://tinyurl.com/y94pmm65

 

and why are companies like this who made offers to UK government "several weeks ago", still waiting to hear back? :-S

 

 

I recall a Labour Prime Minister sending folk to war lacking basic equipment :-| ........

 

He didn't have the excuse that the rest of the world was trying to buy boots or guns that worked *-) .......

You were never there.....my son was so i know all about that and fyi i was never in support of the Iraq war but just to put the cost of UK lives in perspective.

 

Iraqi war 2003 - 2011......179 UK forces personnel killed.

 

Coronavirus has killed 16,509 UK citizens in less than four months.

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Bulletguy - 2020-04-20 7:04 PM

 

pelmetman - 2020-04-20 6:44 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2020-04-19 2:26 PM

 

 

An emergency shipment of 84 tons of PPE from Turkey will last the NHS just three days.

 

https://tinyurl.com/yae2g25c

 

It was due to arrive today...........but,

 

https://tinyurl.com/y94pmm65

 

and why are companies like this who made offers to UK government "several weeks ago", still waiting to hear back? :-S

 

 

I recall a Labour Prime Minister sending folk to war lacking basic equipment :-| ........

 

He didn't have the excuse that the rest of the world was trying to buy boots or guns that worked *-) .......

You were never there.....my son was so i know all about that and fyi i was never in support of the Iraq war but just to put the cost of UK lives in perspective.

 

Iraqi war 2003 - 2011......179 UK forces personnel killed.

 

Coronavirus has killed 16,509 UK citizens in less than four months.

 

Kinda get the feeling old homophobe is just writing off 179 lives because his Labour love sent em to their deaths

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Guest pelmetman
Bulletguy - 2020-04-20 7:04 PM

 

pelmetman - 2020-04-20 6:44 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2020-04-19 2:26 PM

 

 

An emergency shipment of 84 tons of PPE from Turkey will last the NHS just three days.

 

https://tinyurl.com/yae2g25c

 

It was due to arrive today...........but,

 

https://tinyurl.com/y94pmm65

 

and why are companies like this who made offers to UK government "several weeks ago", still waiting to hear back? :-S

 

 

I recall a Labour Prime Minister sending folk to war lacking basic equipment :-| ........

 

He didn't have the excuse that the rest of the world was trying to buy boots or guns that worked *-) .......

You were never there.....my son was so i know all about that and fyi i was never in support of the Iraq war but just to put the cost of UK lives in perspective.

 

Iraqi war 2003 - 2011......179 UK forces personnel killed.

 

Coronavirus has killed 16,509 UK citizens in less than four months.

 

Never said I was.......

 

Is your son as negative as you? :-| .......

 

I can only assume he takes after his mother ;-) ........

 

 

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Guest pelmetman
StuartO - 2020-04-20 7:03 PMIt’s not difficult to imagine what the reason “at the Turkish end” for the delay collecting the PPE might be; I would guess that there’s some price jacking going on, not least because the Turkish end can’t fail to have seen the pressure our Government are being put under back here in UK. It wasn’t very clever to let it get out that 84 tons was supposed to be arriving on Sunday.

I don’t suppose for one minute that the journalists responsible for the fuss which has brewed up over this shipment will blame themselves for the extra cost they will have imposed on us.
The spiv's are working overtime *-) .........That said UK businesses are adapting wonderfully B-) .......Kinda almost hope I was still working :D .......
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pelmetman - 2020-04-20 7:14 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2020-04-20 7:04 PM

 

pelmetman - 2020-04-20 6:44 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2020-04-19 2:26 PM

 

 

An emergency shipment of 84 tons of PPE from Turkey will last the NHS just three days.

 

https://tinyurl.com/yae2g25c

 

It was due to arrive today...........but,

 

https://tinyurl.com/y94pmm65

 

and why are companies like this who made offers to UK government "several weeks ago", still waiting to hear back? :-S

 

 

I recall a Labour Prime Minister sending folk to war lacking basic equipment :-| ........

 

He didn't have the excuse that the rest of the world was trying to buy boots or guns that worked *-) .......

You were never there.....my son was so i know all about that and fyi i was never in support of the Iraq war but just to put the cost of UK lives in perspective.

 

Iraqi war 2003 - 2011......179 UK forces personnel killed.

 

Coronavirus has killed 16,509 UK citizens in less than four months.

 

Never said I was.......

So you agree attempting to equate the loss of life through 'lack of equipment' was utterly ridiculous? The figures alone should tell you that much.

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Guest pelmetman
Bulletguy - 2020-04-20 7:55 PM

 

pelmetman - 2020-04-20 7:14 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2020-04-20 7:04 PM

 

pelmetman - 2020-04-20 6:44 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2020-04-19 2:26 PM

 

 

An emergency shipment of 84 tons of PPE from Turkey will last the NHS just three days.

 

https://tinyurl.com/yae2g25c

 

It was due to arrive today...........but,

 

https://tinyurl.com/y94pmm65

 

and why are companies like this who made offers to UK government "several weeks ago", still waiting to hear back? :-S

 

 

I recall a Labour Prime Minister sending folk to war lacking basic equipment :-| ........

 

He didn't have the excuse that the rest of the world was trying to buy boots or guns that worked *-) .......

You were never there.....my son was so i know all about that and fyi i was never in support of the Iraq war but just to put the cost of UK lives in perspective.

 

Iraqi war 2003 - 2011......179 UK forces personnel killed.

 

Coronavirus has killed 16,509 UK citizens in less than four months.

 

Never said I was.......

So you agree attempting to equate the loss of life through 'lack of equipment' was utterly ridiculous? The figures alone should tell you that much.

 

I agree that the Loser Brigade are being more than a bit shameless by trying to make hay in a Pandemic :-| .......

 

But It say's far more about you Losers than it does about the majority ;-) .......

 

Just sayin :D .......

 

 

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pelmetman - 2020-04-20 8:38 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2020-04-20 7:55 PM

 

pelmetman - 2020-04-20 7:14 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2020-04-20 7:04 PM

 

pelmetman - 2020-04-20 6:44 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2020-04-19 2:26 PM

 

 

An emergency shipment of 84 tons of PPE from Turkey will last the NHS just three days.

 

https://tinyurl.com/yae2g25c

 

It was due to arrive today...........but,

 

https://tinyurl.com/y94pmm65

 

and why are companies like this who made offers to UK government "several weeks ago", still waiting to hear back? :-S

 

 

I recall a Labour Prime Minister sending folk to war lacking basic equipment :-| ........

 

He didn't have the excuse that the rest of the world was trying to buy boots or guns that worked *-) .......

You were never there.....my son was so i know all about that and fyi i was never in support of the Iraq war but just to put the cost of UK lives in perspective.

 

Iraqi war 2003 - 2011......179 UK forces personnel killed.

 

Coronavirus has killed 16,509 UK citizens in less than four months.

 

Never said I was.......

So you agree attempting to equate the loss of life through 'lack of equipment' was utterly ridiculous? The figures alone should tell you that much.

 

I agree.

Good. That was all you needed to say.

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Guest pelmetman
Bulletguy - 2020-04-20 10:02 PM

 

pelmetman - 2020-04-20 8:38 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2020-04-20 7:55 PM

 

pelmetman - 2020-04-20 7:14 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2020-04-20 7:04 PM

 

pelmetman - 2020-04-20 6:44 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2020-04-19 2:26 PM

 

 

An emergency shipment of 84 tons of PPE from Turkey will last the NHS just three days.

 

https://tinyurl.com/yae2g25c

 

It was due to arrive today...........but,

 

https://tinyurl.com/y94pmm65

 

and why are companies like this who made offers to UK government "several weeks ago", still waiting to hear back? :-S

 

 

I recall a Labour Prime Minister sending folk to war lacking basic equipment :-| ........

 

He didn't have the excuse that the rest of the world was trying to buy boots or guns that worked *-) .......

You were never there.....my son was so i know all about that and fyi i was never in support of the Iraq war but just to put the cost of UK lives in perspective.

 

Iraqi war 2003 - 2011......179 UK forces personnel killed.

 

Coronavirus has killed 16,509 UK citizens in less than four months.

 

Never said I was.......

So you agree attempting to equate the loss of life through 'lack of equipment' was utterly ridiculous? The figures alone should tell you that much.

 

I agree.

Good. That was all you needed to say.

 

What a idiot *-) ........Agree with that you lefty idiot *-) ........

 

 

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A Derbyshire fashion company offered to make scrubs, but got nowhere with the Cabinet Office. *-)

 

"Four weeks ago we were one of the first to offer to make PPE and support the NHS, but our efforts have been frustrated by the slow centralised procurement system.

 

"To break through this red tape, we took the decision to sidestep the bureaucracy and bypass the central system. We are are now supplying direct to 9 hospitals through local East Midlands NHS trusts.

 

https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/news/local-news/derbyshire-fashion-firm-give-direct-4045769

 

This must be that 'central system' Mr Nieper bypassed! ;-)

 

https://sccl.nhs.uk/

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Guest pelmetman
Bulletguy - 2020-04-20 10:14 PM

 

 

A Derbyshire fashion company offered to make scrubs, but got nowhere with the Cabinet Office. *-)

 

"Four weeks ago we were one of the first to offer to make PPE and support the NHS, but our efforts have been frustrated by the slow centralised procurement system.

 

"To break through this red tape, we took the decision to sidestep the bureaucracy and bypass the central system. We are are now supplying direct to 9 hospitals through local East Midlands NHS trusts.

 

https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/news/local-news/derbyshire-fashion-firm-give-direct-4045769

 

This must be that 'central system' Mr Nieper bypassed! ;-)

 

https://sccl.nhs.uk/

 

The government need to sort the wheat from the chaff ;-) .......

 

Just as we thinking blokes do with your posts >:-) .........

 

Just sayin :D ......

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StuartO - 2020-04-20 9:46 AM
pepe63 - 2020-04-20 9:05 AM  Spoken from the safety of your home and sat behind a keyboard...Wow!Would you have posted, or indeed said such a thing to your OH/son/daughter/grandson/granddaughter if THEY worked on the frontline? 8-)

I have not suggested anything beyond taking managed, proportionate risks and I don't believe adapting to PHE's new guidance to deal with shortages of PPE will amount to requiring people to take dangerous levels of risk. 

I have several relatives and friends who are working in healthcare on the front line and elsewhere who I am sure will currently be having to taking some risks.  They are doing what they have to do and I would not try to talk them out of it. I am a retired doctor and during my working life I did sometimes have to take personal risks in order to respond to patient needs; they were calulated risks but they were risks; there is no such thing in life as perfect, risk-free safety.  I swore the hippocratic oath when I graduated and as I recall there is no mention of risk taking - but nor is there any let-out from the duty of care because of risk either.

And by the way I  have volunteered to go back and help any way I can and I would be prepared to take managed risks in doing so if necessary, even though I am currently sheltering at home, as instructed, as a vulnerable old  man.  So far I am too old, too long retired and was the wrong sort of medical specialty anyway for my offer to be of any real use at the moment - but if they get to scraping the barrel deeply enough, I will do my best.

Well done you I have no abilities to volunteer so just try to do my bit by abiding the advice given
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Guest pelmetman
teflon2 - 2020-04-21 7:07 PM
StuartO - 2020-04-20 9:46 AM
pepe63 - 2020-04-20 9:05 AM  Spoken from the safety of your home and sat behind a keyboard...Wow!Would you have posted, or indeed said such a thing to your OH/son/daughter/grandson/granddaughter if THEY worked on the frontline? 8-)

I have not suggested anything beyond taking managed, proportionate risks and I don't believe adapting to PHE's new guidance to deal with shortages of PPE will amount to requiring people to take dangerous levels of risk. 

I have several relatives and friends who are working in healthcare on the front line and elsewhere who I am sure will currently be having to taking some risks.  They are doing what they have to do and I would not try to talk them out of it. I am a retired doctor and during my working life I did sometimes have to take personal risks in order to respond to patient needs; they were calulated risks but they were risks; there is no such thing in life as perfect, risk-free safety.  I swore the hippocratic oath when I graduated and as I recall there is no mention of risk taking - but nor is there any let-out from the duty of care because of risk either.

And by the way I  have volunteered to go back and help any way I can and I would be prepared to take managed risks in doing so if necessary, even though I am currently sheltering at home, as instructed, as a vulnerable old  man.  So far I am too old, too long retired and was the wrong sort of medical specialty anyway for my offer to be of any real use at the moment - but if they get to scraping the barrel deeply enough, I will do my best.

Well done you I have no abilities to volunteer so just try to do my bit by abiding the advice given
So am I ;-) ..........Just had a BBQ B-) .........
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The RAF cargo plane said by government to be "delivering 84 tons of PPE and medical supplies on Sunday" from Turkey.....has just arrived today with half the amount as the other two aircraft are still at Brize Norton "on standby". :-S

 

The original consignment was 400.000 surgical gowns which will last the NHS less than three days as it uses 150,000 a day. :-|

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52378491

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