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Man Attacked Female NHS Staff ...


Birdbrain

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So the police have already dealt with it but still, What a wonderful diversion from BoJo's coronovirus response *-)

 

PS: can't read the link because it doesn't accept my ad blocker. Unlike the Guardian, the Daily Mail is dependent on advertising revenue so can't afford to offend the big advertising spenders by publishing stuff like this https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/21/richard-branson-bailout (and the Daily Mail is owned by a £billionaire domiciled in a tax haven who depends on BoJo to ensure he can keep avoiding tax)

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John52 - 2020-04-24 7:00 AMSo the police have already dealt with it but still, What a wonderful diversion from BoJo's coronovirus response *-)PS: can't read the link because it doesn't accept my ad blocker. Unlike the Guardian, the Daily Mail is dependent on advertising revenue so can't afford to offend the big advertising spenders by publishing stuff like this https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/21/richard-branson-bailout (and the Daily Mail is owned by a £billionaire domiciled in a tax haven who depends on BoJo to ensure he can keep avoiding tax)


Somehow I don't think you would have done more than scan and reject a story like this one even if you could have read it easily. It suits your fixed ideas to dismiss a story like this and failing that to ignore and cover it with a smke screen of something more politically acceptable to you. 

I'm sorry that Dianne Abbot, despite her considerable efforts to give her son a priviledged upbringing, has had such a struggle with her son, who seems to have ruined his promising life and thrown away the opportunities he was given after developing a serious psychotic illness due to drug abuse.  Clearly it is now necessary to confine him until he can be rendered safe enough to re-enter society - which unfortunately may never happen because drug abuse does sometimes make people irrecoverably mad and dangerous.
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StuartO - 2020-04-24 7:40 AM
John52 - 2020-04-24 7:00 AMSo the police have already dealt with it but still, What a wonderful diversion from BoJo's coronovirus response *-)PS: can't read the link because it doesn't accept my ad blocker. Unlike the Guardian, the Daily Mail is dependent on advertising revenue so can't afford to offend the big advertising spenders by publishing stuff like this https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/21/richard-branson-bailout (and the Daily Mail is owned by a £billionaire domiciled in a tax haven who depends on BoJo to ensure he can keep avoiding tax)

Somehow I don't think you would have done more than scan and reject a story like this one even if you could have read it easily. It suits your fixed ideas to dismiss a story like this and failing that to ignore and cover it with a smke screen of something more politically acceptable to you. 

I'm sorry that Dianne Abbot, despite her considerable efforts to give her son a priviledged upbringing, has had such a struggle with her son, who seems to have ruined his promising life and thrown away the opportunities he was given after developing a serious psychotic illness due to drug abuse.  Clearly it is now necessary to confine him until he can be rendered safe enough to re-enter society - which unfortunately may never happen because drug abuse does sometimes make people irrecoverably mad and dangerous.

I don't ignore or dismiss it - but since it has apparently been dealt with I don't think we should fall into the trap of thinking it more important than the Coronovirus crisis - or the media being owned by someone dependent on advertisers, and BoJo to help him avoid tax by getting us out of the EU.
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John52 - 2020-04-24 7:46 AM I don't ignore or dismiss it - but since it has apparently been dealt with I don't think we should fall into the trap of thinking it more important than the Coronovirus crisis - or the media being owned by someone dependent on advertisers, and BoJo to help him avoid tax by getting us out of the EU.


As I said, if it doesn't suit you just ignore it and blow a smoke screen of stuff you would like us to be concentrating on.

And it hasn't been "dealt with" yet, Dianne Abbot's son is awaiting sentence pending a psychiatric assessment.  I have a friend whose son ruined his life (and imposed great sacrifices and difficulties on to his parents) by abusing psychactive drugs and developing a drug-induced psychosis.  These cases are a real tragedy and deserve wide publicity (especially of the permanency of the mental illness) to discourage other young people from making the same msitakes.
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StuartO - 2020-04-24 8:39 AM
John52 - 2020-04-24 7:46 AM I don't ignore or dismiss it - but since it has apparently been dealt with I don't think we should fall into the trap of thinking it more important than the Coronovirus crisis - or the media being owned by someone dependent on advertisers, and BoJo to help him avoid tax by getting us out of the EU.

As I said, if it doesn't suit you just ignore it and blow a smoke screen of stuff you would like us to be concentrating on.

And it hasn't been "dealt with" yet, Dianne Abbot's son is awaiting sentence pending a psychiatric assessment.  I have a friend whose son ruined his life (and imposed great sacrifices and difficulties on to his parents) by abusing psychactive drugs and developing a drug-induced psychosis.  These cases are a real tragedy and deserve wide publicity (especially of the permanency of the mental illness) to discourage other young people from making the same msitakes.

Well if this is genuine concern rather than political point scoring, instead of singling out Dianne Abbot whose case has apparently been sorted, why not at least show those worst off - those under lockdown in tiny shoe box flats with domestic violence and NO SUPPORT - https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/apr/23/family-carers-at-breaking-point-as-coronavirus-closes-uk-support-services
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John52 - 2020-04-24 8:45 AM Well if this is genuine concern rather than political point scoring, instead of singling out Dianne Abbot whose case has apparently been sorted, why not at least show those worst off .....


You are ignoring the facts; this case isn't "sorted", not only is the court case incomplete Dianne Abbott will be struggling with the consequences of her sons foolishness with drugs for the rest of her life.  It's a real trajedy for her and her family, not just her son.  I'm no fan of her politics but having seen what a similar situation has done to my friend's burdened, almost ruined retirement and his family life (on a continuing basis) I feel really sorry for Ms Abbott.

Please stop dismissing this case as insignificant compared to your other political hobby horses; it's very far from that.
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John52 - 2020-04-24 7:46 AM
StuartO - 2020-04-24 7:40 AM
John52 - 2020-04-24 7:00 AMSo the police have already dealt with it but still, What a wonderful diversion from BoJo's coronovirus response *-)PS: can't read the link because it doesn't accept my ad blocker. Unlike the Guardian, the Daily Mail is dependent on advertising revenue so can't afford to offend the big advertising spenders by publishing stuff like this https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/21/richard-branson-bailout (and the Daily Mail is owned by a £billionaire domiciled in a tax haven who depends on BoJo to ensure he can keep avoiding tax)

Somehow I don't think you would have done more than scan and reject a story like this one even if you could have read it easily. It suits your fixed ideas to dismiss a story like this and failing that to ignore and cover it with a smke screen of something more politically acceptable to you. 

I'm sorry that Dianne Abbot, despite her considerable efforts to give her son a priviledged upbringing, has had such a struggle with her son, who seems to have ruined his promising life and thrown away the opportunities he was given after developing a serious psychotic illness due to drug abuse.  Clearly it is now necessary to confine him until he can be rendered safe enough to re-enter society - which unfortunately may never happen because drug abuse does sometimes make people irrecoverably mad and dangerous.

I don't ignore or dismiss it - but since it has apparently been dealt with I don't think we should fall into the trap of thinking it more important than the Coronovirus crisis - or the media being owned by someone dependent on advertisers, and BoJo to help him avoid tax by getting us out of the EU.
It hasn't been dealt with princess ... He hasn't been sentenced ... He hasn't been dealt his punishment ... Mummy might pull a few strings ... Attacking NHS staff , women ... Yuk
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John52 - 2020-04-24 9:20 AM
StuartO - 2020-04-24 9:15 AMPlease stop dismissing this case as insignificant .....
I did not say it was insignificantI asked why it had been singled out when there are many more urgent cases with NO SUPPORT


You edited the quotation in a misleading way.  What I said was "Please stop dismissing this case as insignificant compared to your other political hobby horses; it's very far from that."

The case became prominent because he is Dianne Abbott's son but it's worth highlighting because it will have tragic consequences of huge lifetime significance for Dianne Abbott, her son and any other family she has.  There are of course many other current issues but this case is important in the pubic interest, which is why I don't want you to keep pretending that it isn't.
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The last assault on a hospital worker is said to have taken place two days before Christmas.

 

The court was told that most of the incidents relate to a time when Mr Abbott-Thompson, from Tottenham in north London, was being treated for mental health issues.

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/diane-abbotts-son-james-is-charged-over-hospital-assaults-jcqvvqmb0

 

Unfortunately mental health issues are on the rise due to varying factors, not just drug abuse, and the professional care that was there has been deprived with many facilities now closed down. A police officer with 25 years service told how police, who are not trained professionals in mental health, used to deal with one case a month, now find themselves faced with at least one case every single shift.

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Bulletguy - 2020-04-24 3:40 PM

 

The last assault on a hospital worker is said to have taken place two days before Christmas.

 

The court was told that most of the incidents relate to a time when Mr Abbott-Thompson, from Tottenham in north London, was being treated for mental health issues.

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/diane-abbotts-son-james-is-charged-over-hospital-assaults-jcqvvqmb0

 

Unfortunately mental health issues are on the rise due to varying factors, not just drug abuse, and the professional care that was there has been deprived with many facilities now closed down. A police officer with 25 years service told how police, who are not trained professionals in mental health, used to deal with one case a month, now find themselves faced with at least one case every single shift.

 

While high on crystal meth ... Dont know if you know anyone thats done crystal meths ??? ... Maybe its his suppliers fault

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Bulletguy - 2020-04-24 3:40 PMThe last assault on a hospital worker is said to have taken place two days before Christmas.The court was told that most of the incidents relate to a time when Mr Abbott-Thompson, from Tottenham in north London, was being treated for mental health issues.https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/diane-abbotts-son-james-is-charged-over-hospital-assaults-jcqvvqmb0Unfortunately mental health issues are on the rise due to varying factors, not just drug abuse, and the professional care that was there has been deprived with many facilities now closed down. A police officer with 25 years service told how police, who are not trained professionals in mental health, used to deal with one case a month, now find themselves faced with at least one case every single shift.


You seem to be implying that because issues which being labelled "mental health" are being cited or blamed and there is a shortage of mental health services,  the people who feel they have a mental health problem and that they have not had any or enough mental health services support, it would be unreasonable to convict them of a criminal offence when their behaviour would otherwise warrant conviction.  These days many people seem to hold such views or expectations.

The legal principle is however very different and a perceived lack of fullsome mental health would not get you very far.  It was established a long time ago that if a person accused of an offence claims they are not guilty because they were suffering from incapacitating mental illness at the time, then they must prove that this was the case - i.e. the usual burden of proof in a criminal case is reversed.  The defence has to show that the mental illness was such that the individual had lost all control of his or her behaviour.  The court (usually a jury) rather than a doctor decides whether that is proved, based on the evidence presented in court.

The majority of  people who seek to work in mental health are, in the experience of most doctors who don't, doing so primarily in pursuit of a solution to their own mental health problems and it's often said that 50% (or more) of psychiatrists are madder than their patients.  Diagnosing mental illness, especially when the ndividual presenting as a sufferer, is a highly subjective business which often goes along with what the patient wants.  But there are sane and sensible psychiatrists and most of those who work as foresic psychiatrists, i.e. work in support of the courts, are less easily convinced than the barmy ones.
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StuartO - 2020-04-24 6:50 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2020-04-24 3:40 PM

 

The last assault on a hospital worker is said to have taken place two days before Christmas.The court was told that most of the incidents relate to a time when Mr Abbott-Thompson, from Tottenham in north London, was being treated for mental health issues.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/diane-abbotts-son-james-is-charged-over-hospital-assaults-jcqvvqmb0

 

Unfortunately mental health issues are on the rise due to varying factors, not just drug abuse, and the professional care that was there has been deprived with many facilities now closed down. A police officer with 25 years service told how police, who are not trained professionals in mental health, used to deal with one case a month, now find themselves faced with at least one case every single shift.

You seem to be implying that because issues which being labelled "mental health" are being cited or blamed and there is a shortage of mental health services, the people who feel they have a mental health problem and that they have not had any or enough mental health services support, it would be unreasonable to convict them of a criminal offence when their behaviour would otherwise warrant conviction. These days many people seem to hold such views or expectations.

What i'm 'implying' is from reading the article in it's full context rather than scanning over a headline grabber shows the man was under treatment for mental health issues. The DM states he was sectioned but as The Times doesn't mention that, i'm more inclined to believe the latter. In the case of a criminal trial it's not for an individual to decide whether he/she has "not had any or enough mental health services support", a judge would call for reports first to ascertain if the person is fit to stand trial. In some cases they are not.

 

Thankfully the days of sending people like Timothy Evans to their death are long over and today he would not even have stood trial.

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Bulletguy - 2020-04-24 7:19 PM

 

StuartO - 2020-04-24 6:50 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2020-04-24 3:40 PM

 

The last assault on a hospital worker is said to have taken place two days before Christmas.The court was told that most of the incidents relate to a time when Mr Abbott-Thompson, from Tottenham in north London, was being treated for mental health issues.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/diane-abbotts-son-james-is-charged-over-hospital-assaults-jcqvvqmb0

 

Unfortunately mental health issues are on the rise due to varying factors, not just drug abuse, and the professional care that was there has been deprived with many facilities now closed down. A police officer with 25 years service told how police, who are not trained professionals in mental health, used to deal with one case a month, now find themselves faced with at least one case every single shift.

You seem to be implying that because issues which being labelled "mental health" are being cited or blamed and there is a shortage of mental health services, the people who feel they have a mental health problem and that they have not had any or enough mental health services support, it would be unreasonable to convict them of a criminal offence when their behaviour would otherwise warrant conviction. These days many people seem to hold such views or expectations.

What i'm 'implying' is from reading the article in it's full context rather than scanning over a headline grabber shows the man was under treatment for mental health issues. The DM states he was sectioned but as The Times doesn't mention that, i'm more inclined to believe the latter. In the case of a criminal trial it's not for an individual to decide whether he/she has "not had any or enough mental health services support", a judge would call for reports first to ascertain if the person is fit to stand trial. In some cases they are not.

 

Thankfully the days of sending people like Timothy Evans to their death are long over and today he would not even have stood trial.

 

Was Timothy Evans on crystal meths ???

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StuartO - 2020-04-24 9:53 AM
John52 - 2020-04-24 9:20 AM
StuartO - 2020-04-24 9:15 AMPlease stop dismissing this case as insignificant .....
I did not say it was insignificantI asked why it had been singled out when there are many more urgent cases with NO SUPPORT

You edited the quotation in a misleading way.  What I said was "Please stop dismissing this case as insignificant compared to your other political hobby horses; it's very far from that."

The case became prominent because he is Dianne Abbott's son but it's worth highlighting because it will have tragic consequences of huge lifetime significance for Dianne Abbott, her son and any other family she has.  There are of course many other current issues but this case is important in the pubic interest, which is why I don't want you to keep pretending that it isn't.

I didn't say its not important.I asked why the DM has singled it out above the thousands of other cases which are more serious because the victims have NO SUPPORT
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John52 - 2020-04-25 7:47 AM I didn't say its not important.I asked why the DM has singled it out above the thousands of other cases which are more serious because the victims have NO SUPPORT

"But it's not as important as ..." (something else altogether that you have a thing about) is just like saying it's not really important in itself - when I'm pointing out that this is a huge life-changing trajedy for Dianne Abbott and her family.  Can't you see that?  Levels of support available to people with mental illness and other mental health issues in this Country always do vary and will sometimes be sub-optimal or worse, especially in this time of national emergency - but that's a separate issue in our society, one of many such separate issues, big and very big and sometime even huge.  But that takes away nothing from the trajedy of Dianne Abbot's son's terrible descent into what may well be permanent psychotic dysfunction and confinement or dependency and its enormous impact on his family.  Stop bringing red herrings into this.
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StuartO - 2020-04-25 9:42 AM
John52 - 2020-04-25 7:47 AM I didn't say its not important.I asked why the DM has singled it out above the thousands of other cases which are more serious because the victims have NO SUPPORT

"But it's not as important as ..." (something else altogether that you have a thing about) is just like saying it's not really important in itself - when I'm pointing out that this is a huge life-changing trajedy for Dianne Abbott and her family.  Can't you see that?  Levels of support available to people with mental illness and other mental health issues in this Country always do vary and will sometimes be sub-optimal or worse, especially in this time of national emergency - but that's a separate issue in our society, one of many such separate issues, big and very big and sometime even huge.  But that takes away nothing from the trajedy of Dianne Abbot's son's terrible descent into what may well be permanent psychotic dysfunction and confinement or dependency and its enormous impact on his family.  Stop bringing red herrings into this.

I'll try again *-) I didn't say its not important.I asked why the DM has singled it out above the thousands of other cases which are more serious because the victims have NO SUPPORT
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John52 - 2020-04-27 8:40 PM
I'll try again *-) I didn't say its not important.I asked why the DM has singled it out above the thousands of other cases which are more serious because the victims have NO SUPPORT


So the Red Herring you introduced was your hobby horse about the Daily Mail's selective reporting, nothing to do with the topic of this thread, which just happened to have been quoted from the Mail by the OP, although it had also been reported in other papers.  The Mail probably did want to give it coverage because it was Dianne Abbott's son who was the psychotic druggie going barmy, but it was nevertheless a case of a drug-induced episode which was going to have tragic impact on his whole life and that of his family, which was what I was trying to highlight.

Were you so determined to introduce red herrings because it was the left wing Dianne Abbott who was getting noticed?
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