Barryd999 Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 I have noticed this for a while. Gears work ok but 3rd is always a bit crunchy as is fifth but not so much. Quick search reveals some saying its an issue with water getting into the box and there was a fix from Fiat? at some point. One guy ended up have to have a new box fitted though. Other say they had garages try various things like fitting new Synchromesh (I think). Not sure if its a big issue I need to worry about but just looking for opinions. I imagine if I take it to my garage it will be another one where they scratch their heads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 Lots of stuff on-line about this https://tinyurl.com/y82aj9fy This 2016 MHFun thread summarises the issue pretty well and includes comments ftom Dave Newell. https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/1999-fiat-ducato-gearbox-problem-fixed.126391/ If I remember correctly, there were (essentially) two different complaints. One related to 5th-gear failure for which several possibilities used to be suggested including a potential design fault with the gearbox’s manufacture, too high a 5th-gear ratio and the manner in which an owner drove. (I think this problem stopped when a revised gearbox was fitted (in 2002?) The other, where more than one gear was affected, was usually diagnosed as water entering the gearbox and contaminating the oiil. As you’ve got the latter, I suggest you get the gearbox oil changed pronto and make sure all rainwater that might enter the engine compartment gets diverted away from the gearbox (see final posting on MHFun link). This might not cure your ‘crunchiness’ problem, but it definitely should do no harm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted June 16, 2020 Author Share Posted June 16, 2020 Derek Uzzell - 2020-06-16 1:23 PM Lots of stuff on-line about this https://tinyurl.com/y82aj9fy This 2016 MHFun thread summarises the issue pretty well and includes comments ftom Dave Newell. https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/1999-fiat-ducato-gearbox-problem-fixed.126391/ If I remember correctly, there were (essentially) two different complaints. One related to 5th-gear failure for which several possibilities used to be suggested including a potential design fault with the gearbox’s manufacture, too high a 5th-gear ratio and the manner in which an owner drove. (I think this problem stopped when a revised gearbox was fitted (in 2002?) The other, where more than one gear was affected, was usually diagnosed as water entering the gearbox and contaminating the oiil. As you’ve got the latter, I suggest you get the gearbox oil changed pronto and make sure all rainwater that might enter the engine compartment gets diverted away from the gearbox (see final posting on MHFun link). This might not cure your ‘crunchiness’ problem, but it definitely should do no harm. Thanks Derek. I have drawn the same conclusion now that it may well be water ingress. I bet its never been changed. I called the garage and as part of the service they just check for leaks I think. Ill get it booked in for an investigation and change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve hill Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 Lots of possibilities I am sure. However I ran a 96 Fiat 2.5 TDi for 6 years with a 3rd gear problem, it was the synchromesh and cost a fortune to fix £4000, as they would have to take the gearbox out and probably end up fixing other worn stuff. We also lived in the van so it was a real problem as many garages will remove a gearbox but then send them off to get fixed, its not a one day job. Best of luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 This 2017 forum thread relates https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/1996-Fiat-Ducato-gearbox/46581/ (I’m doubtful that the suggestion in jaytee74’s posting there to try contacting Iveco would be productive as - although the motor might have been the same - the Iveco Daily was RWD and the Ducato FWD, so there were bound to have been transmission mechanical differences.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted June 16, 2020 Author Share Posted June 16, 2020 Hard to tell I guess without an investigation. Its either the inexpensive water leaking into the oil which seems a common problem or its on the way out. Recon gearbox if its the latter probably. £150 ebay. (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witzend Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 Barryd999 - 2020-06-16 6:07 PM Hard to tell I guess without an investigation. Its either the inexpensive water leaking into the oil which seems a common problem or its on the way out. Recon gearbox if its the latter probably. £150 ebay. (lol) When you have the oil changed tell them to overfill by 500 ml expect your to late to cure it now it's started crunching but it might help. I'd be very wary of a recon gearbox for £150 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted June 16, 2020 Author Share Posted June 16, 2020 witzend - 2020-06-16 10:07 PM Barryd999 - 2020-06-16 6:07 PM Hard to tell I guess without an investigation. Its either the inexpensive water leaking into the oil which seems a common problem or its on the way out. Recon gearbox if its the latter probably. £150 ebay. (lol) When you have the oil changed tell them to overfill by 500 ml expect your to late to cure it now it's started crunching but it might help. I'd be very wary of a recon gearbox for £150 Thanks. Someone else mentioned the extra half litre. I was half joking about the gearbox off ebay. Hopefully it wont come to that. The van has been up for replacement for some years now but its just never happened for a variety of reasons. It only has to get us to Flamborough head and back hopefully if we get away although I wouldnt sell it with a crunchy gear box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikefitz Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 The most likely is worn synchromesh although an oil change is worth a try. Ask the garage to use a fully synthetic gear oil GL4 specification. A gearbox rebuild is going to be over £600 ( assuming parts are available) on top of the cost to remove and replace the box in the van. You could try to double declutch, matching engine speed to transmission speed. If you are going to sell the van I suggest disclosing the fault, I doubt it will effect the sale too much. There is plenty of interest in SH motor homes at the moment and a slight crunch will be regarded as acceptable by desperate buyers. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickt Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 Have a look at National Gear Boxes,Lowestoft, there web site mentions your problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted June 17, 2020 Author Share Posted June 17, 2020 mikefitz - 2020-06-16 10:54 PM The most likely is worn synchromesh although an oil change is worth a try. Ask the garage to use a fully synthetic gear oil GL4 specification. A gearbox rebuild is going to be over £600 ( assuming parts are available) on top of the cost to remove and replace the box in the van. You could try to double declutch, matching engine speed to transmission speed. If you are going to sell the van I suggest disclosing the fault, I doubt it will effect the sale too much. There is plenty of interest in SH motor homes at the moment and a slight crunch will be regarded as acceptable by desperate buyers. Mike Oh I would always be honest if I came to sell the van, they would notice it anyway. Will see what the garage have to say when I put it in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinM50 Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 One of my neighbours owns and runs A1 Gearboxes in St Neots. Worth a call or email. https://www.a1gearboxesstneots.co.uk/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted June 24, 2020 Author Share Posted June 24, 2020 Update Vans been at the garage a couple of days. Passed on all the info but they think the gearbox or something in it is knackered. Oil has been changed and the old oil was quite manky apparently, bit of a funny redish tinge to it and thin. They gave it a test ride and said it was just the same and i just drove it home 16 miles and it is. However someone on this thread or another thread said it took 50 miles for the new oil to bed in and make a difference. The Mechanic said he doubts it will but I guess ill have to wait and see. So no further forward really. If your gentle and slow with the change to third its ok. Its mainly at higher revs when you change normally to third and fifth there is a bit of a crunch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebishbus Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 If the problem is caused by the synchromesh ,when changing up hold the gear lever in neutral for a second or two to allow the oil to slow the spinning gears down, if it's when changing down,you will have to double de-clutch to speed the gears up. Incidentally my Avatar Triumph has a crash gearbox, no synchromesh and it has survived 84 years. BrianB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted June 24, 2020 Author Share Posted June 24, 2020 thebishbus - 2020-06-24 7:29 PM If the problem is caused by the synchromesh ,when changing up hold the gear lever in neutral for a second or two to allow the oil to slow the spinning gears down, if it's when changing down,you will have to double de-clutch to speed the gears up. Incidentally my Avatar Triumph has a crash gearbox, no synchromesh and it has survived 84 years. BrianB. Thanks. Yes I figured that one out. Change up slowly through neutral and its ok. Just takes a bit of getting used to as my normal driving style is a bit full on. (lol) Probably why its Knackered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 You could try a gearbox additive https://tinyurl.com/yc55pnbf Obviously it would not ‘cure’ damage, but it might help and you don’t seem to have a lot to lose. (Molyslip Garbox Treatment used to be recommended for Mk 1 Golf Gti gearboxes, and it certainly used to produce a lighter, smoother change.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted June 25, 2020 Author Share Posted June 25, 2020 Derek Uzzell - 2020-06-25 9:07 AM You could try a gearbox additive https://tinyurl.com/yc55pnbf Obviously it would not ‘cure’ damage, but it might help and you don’t seem to have a lot to lose. (Molyslip Garbox Treatment used to be recommended for Mk 1 Golf Gti gearboxes, and it certainly used to produce a lighter, smoother change.) Thanks Derek. Is it red? Maybe it was already in if the old oil had a redish tinge to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallii Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 It sounds like the synchros are worn, as already mentioned, try double de clutching, you might need someone who knows to show you how. I still drive a Land Rover that has no synchros on 1st and 2nd, it becomes second nature, ( I even do it in the family ford sometimes). The gearbox is probably fine and good for many more miles yet. How to:- going up the gears, clutch disengaged and into neutral clutch engaged and straight back to disengaged and into gear. Going down the gears, the same as above but rev the engine (just a blip) when in neutral and the clutch engaged. I learned to drive in a Leyland Comet HGV no sychros in those days H 8-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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