Replacement for Schaudt LR1218 controller

[mikejkay]

It appears that in addition to the failure of my flexible solar panels ( see my previous post) my Schaudt LR1218 controller has failed. I have been in touch with Schaudt and their rather disappointing response was "bad luck"! In view of this I do not propose to use a Schaudt unit for a replacement and am going to upgrade to a Votronic MPPT250 unit.

 

I already have a Votronic S1 display unit and, as the Votronic controller has a socket for the display, I contacted Votronic and enquired as to whether I should leave my S1 plugged into the shunt or plug it into the MPPT250. In his reply Jonas Domaschka of Votronic said that the MPPT250 is not compatible with the EBL29. I have read several posts which suggest otherwise. My intention is/was to to use the existing wiring from the controller to the elektroblock.

 

I have two wires ( 1+ and 1- ) for the habitation battery going into Block 6 on the EBL29 (the solar regulator socket). The centre wire to the three pin plug has been cut. The LR1218 output for the starter battery is two wires, one goes to Block 2 and the other disappears into a thick loom of wires.

 

Has anybody connected a Votronic MPPT250 controller to a Schaudt EBL29? Can anybody help with the wiring? I'd hate to blow up the EBL29!

[76zedfour]

I have no experience of the ebl29 but you can bypass ebls and just wire your solar controller outputs to the hab and cab battery outputs on the back of them effectively wiring straight to the batteries

[Robinhood]

The advice you've had from Votronic is consistent with the documentation on their website.

 

The following page refers to the use of their own wiring kit, available as an accessory to connect to various EBLs, but the function is much the same as that provided with the LR1218 (which I think you were saying you intended to reuse).

 

https://www.votronic.de/index.php/en/technology/solar-current-technology?start=4

 

TBH, looking at the block diagram, I can't immediately see why, given the correct connection(s), this should be the case, but Votronic do have a very good understanding of Schaudt kit, and the details of the circuitry, so I would be inclined to believe them.

 

I'm also intrigued by your current wiring, and why the centre pin on block 6 hasn't been used to charge the vehicle battery. It would appear that the EBL has been bypassed for this purpose, but it looks to me that that centre-pin is simply a passthru to Block 2, where the connection has possibly been made. (I'm also not sure what the fourth wire is either - though the position on the LR1218 should reveal that (with the leisure and vehicle batteries both "common-grounded", only two lives and one earth are required from the LR1218). Full understanding would depend on which outputs on the LR1218 are connected to these two wires).

 

I must admit, in the absence of any evidence to the contrary, I'd go with the advice from Votronic, and wire directly to the batteries. Given the regulator should be mounted close to the leisure batteries, then that should be a fairly simple cable run. Unless you can fathom out what the additional 2 wires are, however, a cable run to the vehicle battery might be more arduous (though it's possible that one or the other will suffice asis).

 

 

BTW, as they show the MPP165 as compatible, my guess is that they consider the maximum current output from the (similar but higher rated) MPP250 to be too high for the EBL29 to handle.

[StuartO]

I suspect the primary problem was that flexible solar panels were a bad choice; they are reported to fail because of overheating. Schaudt stuff is well built and has high reliability Unless it’s abused so the panel failure might also have triggered the controller failure. Hopefully you will not be replacing with new flexible panels, in which case you could replace the controller with another Schaudt and retain compatibility with your EBL. Don’t expect any sympathy if you ignore Voltronic’s advice and it goes wrong again.

[Robinhood]

In a break I've just been idly comparing specs.

 

My own view has now been reinforced. I think the "incompatibility" is because the maximum output of the MPPT250 (at 17.5 amps, fused at 20 amps) is greater than the specified (and fused) input of the EBL 29 (at 15 amps).

 

The technology and connectivity doesn't vary between the MPPT165 (which is marked as compatible, and maxes out at 11.8 amps, fused at 15 amps) and the higher-output MPPT250.

 

In addition, the MPPT250 *is* shown as being compatible with a number of different EBLs. I haven't checked all of these, but those that I have all have a solar input rated (and fused) at 20 amps, supporting my conclusion.

 

Your original 2*80W panels would have found the MPPT165 capable, and documentedly compatible, but it is too small for your newer 2*100W ones (presumably that's the reason for the MPPT250).

 

You could patently replace the fuse on the EBL with a 20amp one, but I'm always wary of doing things like that, the different ratings for different EBLs are probably there for a reason of differing internal componentry.

 

However, since the MPPT250 is specified as capable of outputting an absolute 17.8amp max at a 250W panel input, there is reasonably compelling evidence that its maximum output will be lower at 200W input. If the effect is linear (not a given) then the maximum amperage would be a smidgin' over 14amps, which is within the documented and fused capacity of the EBL29.

 

I must admit that, with my view as it is informed now, I would be inclined to connect using your existing wiring but leave the 15amp fuse in the EBL. If it blows in intense sunshine, then you'll need to change to direct wiring (or chance a fuse upgrade to 20 amp).

 

(And, if you wanted to make doubly sure, I believe the 20 amp fuse in the MPPT200 protects the output circuit, you could also substitute this from scratch with a 15 amp one).

[BruceM]

I have an EBL99 which I believe is equivalent in many ways to the EBL29 (??)

 

I also have 200W of solar, a Votronic 250 MPPT Duo and it’s wired directly into the EBL for the habitation supply and also trickle charges the starter battery.

 

The issue with the EBL99 was that the solar input socket is limited to 10 amps.

 

The late Allan Evans came up with the solution which you’ll find buried in this thread https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Solar-Panel-Power/47274/31/.

 

Basically, it involved wiring the output of the Votronic’ habitation charge to the EBL99’s 2 pin Auxiliary charger port (rated at 20 amps) and splicing the Votronic’s starter battery trickle charge to the EBL’s starter battery trickle charge connection. As a result the monitoring panel correctly shows battery charge.

 

It’s been running just fine for about three years now.

 

How applicable this solution would be to your issue is for those with greater familiarity with the EBL29 to advise.

[Robinhood]

BruceM - 2020-06-24 12:13 PM

 

The issue with the EBL99 was that the solar input socket is limited to 10 amps.

 

 

...the documentation I have details a 14amp restriction for the solar input on an EBL99, and a fuse at 15A. The same appears in the EBL29 manual.

[plwsm2000]

I agree with Robinhood that it is probably due to the current rating of the EBL, and I think most likely due to the connector. The solar connector on this EBL is a Universal Mate'N'Lock which is only rated at 18Amps (for 2 circuits carrying 18A and for a 30 deg C temperature rise). This is also with 4mm wires. Even with a 18amp manufacturers rating, I would tend to derate this to no more than 15A max.

 

If there was any logic in having just one wire to the EBL from the solar controller, it is probably to reduce the current carrying wires to just one by wiring the 0V return directly to an earth point (the 0V return through the solar connector would also carry the high current). This would increase the current rating to 19A - a marginal improvement. The extra 1Amp for the starter battery would be insignificant and I cannot see a reason not to use this. If you do decide to use it, I would strongly recommend you fit a 2Amp fuse between the MPPT250 Duo Dig. "BAT II" and on EBL block 6 pin 2.

 

Your Votronic S1 display and shunt monitors the battery current. If you connect it to the Voltronic MPPT250 (I am not even sure it is compatible), it would only monitor the solar output and not the battery state so it is best to leave this where it is.

 

BTW I also have a MPPT250 duo dig. solar controller and a EBL223 that has the same type of connector. I do not have 250Watts of solar panels (yet!) so will never be running close to 20A. I have no problems with it.

 

 

 

[mikejkay]

Thanks for the erudite comments. First I should clear up some confusion. I had intended to upgrade to 2x100w panels but because they have been replaced under warranty I still have 2x80w. I chose the MPP250 controller initially because I intended to go for 200w panels and later because I felt that 160w was a bit to close to the 165w specified for the MPP165.

 

The specs for my new panels are Voc 21.9v, Vmp 17.6v, Isc 4.9a and Imp 4.55a. Vmp seems a bit low.

 

The connection plan published by Votronic for their cable set 2007 (to connect a Votronic controller to a Schaudt EBL) is the same for both the MPP165 and the MPP250 although there is a note to say that "Due to their efficiency, the MPP250 can only be connected to EBL with a 'solar' fuse 20a". It seems that Votronic expect customers to use bigger solar panels with the MPP250. In view of the fact that the combined output of my panels is 9.1a I am inclined to keep the current 15a fuse on my EBL29 and take a risk and use the MPP250 that I have.

 

I attach photos of the LR1218 showing the wiring (minus the input wires from the solar panels). Note the two wires coming from the starter output . The photo of the EBL29 shows these two wires, one going into Block 2 and the other disappearing into a big loom.

 

I'm still hoping to hear from anybody who has connected a Votronic controller to an EBL29. :-D

[mikejkay]

LR1218

[Robinhood]

I can't add much more than I've already posted, except to say that, with only 2x80W panels, I wouldn't have any qualms about connecting the MPPT250 to the EBL29, and leaving the EBL fuse at 15A (though I would also change the fuse in the MPPT250 to 15A, just to double-up on peace of mind).

 

I'm considering adding a permanent panel to my set-up, which is currently an EBL30 (I'm pretty sure this is simply an EBL29 updated to charge AGM/Gel batteries rather than Gel/Pb - the layouts are identical), and a portable panel supplied through an LR1218. (Its output doesn't challenge the 15A limit).

 

If/when I go permanent, this will be via a Votronic MPPT165 (big enough to handle my desired input), and I will be connecting it directly to the EBL30. (I intend to change the solar regulator as, if it is permanently in use, rather than a temporary plug-in, I'd rather have a charging profile attuned to the AGM batteries). I don't want/need a monitor, so the connection will only be three wires using the three-way "block 6" MnL connector *.

 

plwsm2000 - 2020-06-24 1:17 PM

 

I agree with Robinhood that it is probably due to the current rating of the EBL, and I think most likely due to the connector. The solar connector on this EBL is a Universal Mate'N'Lock which is only rated at 18Amps (for 2 circuits carrying 18A and for a 30 deg C temperature rise). This is also with 4mm wires. Even with a 18amp manufacturers rating, I would tend to derate this to no more than 15A max.

 

That's quite a compelling reason for there being no direct EBL compatibility shown for anything above the MPPT250 (which maxes out just below that 18 amps), but doesn't entirely explain why the MPPT250 is considered compatible with some EBLs via that connection method, but not others. The difference is, however, consistent with Schaudt's rating/fusing of the circuit for various models, and possibly reflects the internal componentry).

 

* the current portable installation on my 'van has a history, as it has moved from 'van to 'van over the years. The previous installation was to an EBL119, which definitely required the Schaudt supplied adapter to Block 2 to charge the vehicle battery. (The centre connection on the 3-pin solar input being unused). With similar connections on the EBL30, I simply carried the connections over. Looking at the circuitry yesterday, it was obvious that the EBL30 did use that centre connector, so I took the adapter out, and used the fully-populated 3-way lead to the solar input instead. Connecting the panel indicated that both sets of batteries were being charged. It's somewhat simplified and neatened the installation. :-)

[mikejkay]

Do you agree with my reasoning that the MPPT250 is a betterr choice than the MPPT165 for 160w of panels? I have read about panels producing "spikes" of high current. Is it possible for the output of the two panels to exceed 165w given that Isc is stated as 4.9v.

 

Thanks for the help btw.

 

:-D

[Robinhood]

I am no expert on these matters, but, given the Votronic is a reputable name, and is rated at 165W maximum, and input voltages and currents not exceeding your specs (albeit close) I think I would have gone for the 165.

 

With your experience of previous failure, however, you might feel more comfortable with the extra headroom of the 250.

 

Whichever, I think the balance of the advice above is that, with the panels you describe, either would be OK to route through the EBL, so it comes down to whether you want to pay an extra £30 or so to be sure.

[747]

If the OP has been happy with the system up to now, would it not be easier to just change to a Schaudt LRM1218 controller?

[mikejkay]

747 - 2020-06-25 5:00 PM

 

If the OP has been happy with the system up to now, would it not be easier to just change to a Schaudt LRM1218 controller?

 

I do not know why my LR1218 should have failed so abruptly Granted the panels failed but all that meant was that the input to the controller reduced to 9v or so. I am extremely disappointed in the response of Schaudt . Udo Lang gave no explanation, just said "4 years, not very long, but there is no issue known that the LR 1218 has a short life. (Maybe just bad luck.)" I do not intend to rely on luck!

Yes, it should be beneficial to upgrade to a MPPT controller but the LRM1218 is signicantly more expensive than the equivelant MPPT Votronic product. If I can't rely on Schaudts' reputation for service then there seems to be little point in forking out an extra £50 -£60 for their product.

 

At this point I might add that my first solar panel system, several motorhomes back, was installed by myself using budget components and it worked flawlessly for many years. Certainly longer than my current and failed system that was installed by so called professionals using allegedly high grade components! You may gather that I am annoyed and a bit more cynical (if that were possible) :-D

[747]

I have been using a LR1218 for 11 years now. I bought it from the late Allan Evans (A&N). It has been used with an EBL99 and for the last 6 years with a Reich E Box without problem. I had thought of upgrading to an LRM1218 but apart from one problem (3 continuous days of Fog and Rain) I have never been short of power using a 100 watt panel on the roof and a freestanding 90 watt panel (as backup and only when needed).

 

To be honest, the type of solar panel you have do seem to have a poor reputation for failing early. If I were in your position I would fit the cheapest solar controller possible as history is liable to repeat itself. Then you can fit whatever panels and controller you fancy.

[mikejkay]

I refused to take flexible panels under warranty and am now going with rigid panels.