Motorhome Importing

[fripp]

One for you knowledgeable people. If I import a nearly new motorhome when do the conditions of older than 6 months and more than 6000km apply. Is this:-

 

1) At point of purchase from the dealer

2) At point of import to the UK

3) At the time the forms are filled in to send off for re-registration

 

And I suppose my question is two fold. What is the legal position and what is actually provided to HMRC as proof of age and mileage? So can the journey back from the continent be used to take you over the 6000km?

[Guest rael]

It will be the initial date of registration in the country it was first registered. If you are importing from Germany just ask the dealer what the registration date is on the Farzeugbrief. Most dealers will put this in adverts but tend to state month/year, you would need the day as well.

[Derek Uzzell]

Regarding VAT and vehicle age/mileage, this link may be of interest

 

https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/individuals/car-taxation/buying-selling-cars_en#_bringing_in_an

 

The relevant ‘newness’ criteria are stated as follows

 

When is a car ‘new’?

A car is new for VAT purposes if:

 

It has been in use for no more than 6 months or

It has been driven for no more than 6000 kilometers

when you buy it.

 

Example 1: A car that is two years old but has travelled only 4000 kilometers is new for VAT purposes.

Example 2: A four-month old car has been driven for 15 000 kilometers. It is new for VAT purposes.

Example 3: A ten-month old car that has been driven for 6500 kilometers is not new.

Legal base: Article 2 of VAT Directive

 

This link

 

http://tincanfamily.com/get-that-imported-motorhome-a-uk-registration/

 

says about buying ‘used’ from Germany

 

...if you buy from Germany you need to make sure you get the german registration docs with the sale – this comes in 2 parts, the Fahrzeugschein Teil 1 and 2. The DVLA will want this when you first register and they will want both parts, 1 and 2, so make sure the seller provides them at the point of purchase.

 

 

 

[fripp]

Derek Uzzell - 2020-07-21 7:10 AM

 

Regarding VAT and vehicle age/mileage, this link may be of interest

 

https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/individuals/car-taxation/buying-selling-cars_en#_bringing_in_an

 

The relevant ‘newness’ criteria are stated as follows

 

When is a car ‘new’?

A car is new for VAT purposes if:

 

It has been in use for no more than 6 months or

It has been driven for no more than 6000 kilometers

when you buy it.

 

Example 1: A car that is two years old but has travelled only 4000 kilometers is new for VAT purposes.

Example 2: A four-month old car has been driven for 15 000 kilometers. It is new for VAT purposes.

Example 3: A ten-month old car that has been driven for 6500 kilometers is not new.

Legal base: Article 2 of VAT Directive

 

This link

 

http://tincanfamily.com/get-that-imported-motorhome-a-uk-registration/

 

says about buying ‘used’ from Germany

 

...if you buy from Germany you need to make sure you get the german registration docs with the sale – this comes in 2 parts, the Fahrzeugschein Teil 1 and 2. The DVLA will want this when you first register and they will want both parts, 1 and 2, so make sure the seller provides them at the point of purchase.

 

 

 

Thanks, OK so legally it is when you buy. That would make sense.

 

Is the mileage listed on Fahrzeugschein Teil 1 and 2? I assume so?

[Derek Uzzell]

Although I ‘self-imported’ a motorhome from Germany in 2005, this was new rather than used and I’ve no experience of importing secondhand vehicles.

 

The Fahrzeugschein is a German registration document, so I don’t really see why it should carry details of the distance a vehicle has travelled - after all, in the UK, a vehicle’s V5C registration document does not carry mileage data, though the MOT certificate does.

 

This link may be helpful

 

https://rvnomading.com/2019/11/16/importing-a-motorhome-to-the-uk-from-germany/

 

and suggrests that HMRC can be flexible regarding the ‘newness’ criteria.

 

Past forum enquiries about buying a motorhome abroad have usually focussed on obtaining suitable insurance rather than the HMRC/VAT implications.

 

Obviously, if the ‘foreign’ countr in which a motorhome is bought is not Germany (Belgium has been popular) different documentary rules may apply.

[Brian Kirby]

fripp - 2020-07-21 10:39 PM...…………………………………...Thanks, OK so legally it is when you buy. That would make sense.

Is the mileage listed on Fahrzeugschein Teil 1 and 2? I assume so?

I have no experience of importing direct from Germany, so this is based on knowledge gained mainly from others.

 

When you arrive to collect a van from a German dealer, it will have no registration plate attached. (In Germany the registration plate is issued to the vehicle owner, not to the vehicle, so were a German buying he would arrive with "his own" plates to be attached.

 

When you buy a van for export in Germany you have to take out German export insurance (usually basic "road traffic acts only" insurance, i.e. with no fire or theft cover), for which purpose the vehicle will be temporarily registered in Germany. It will then be issued with export plates which will be attached by the dealer before you can drive it away.

 

The insurance is international and is valid for, I think, about one month. The German registration document confers title, so legal proof of ownership, rather than just proof of "registered keeper" as in UK. It seems logical for that document to record the mileage at point of sale, as a fraud prevention measure.

 

When you come to re-register the vehicle in UK the mileage at point of sale will be out of date, so it would again be logical (on the basis that the vehicle is not actually imported into UK until it arrives on UK soil), for the mileage at the point of registration to be used. But probably worth checking with HMRC.

 

My suggestion would be to follow this link http://tinyurl.com/nopyg9s to the Government website on importing vehicles and obtain the information pack on importing if you have not already done so. If you are already in contact with a German dealership over a particular van, I'm assuming their English or your German (or both!) are adequate for you to clarify with them what will be entered on the temporary registration document.

 

Be aware of the steps you will need to take in registration in UK, and that they involve HMRC and VCA, as well as DVLA, who I assume will all be taking longer than usual under Covid to complete their procedures.

 

If you want to get the vehicle insured under UK full comprehensive cover as soon as you get it back, also be aware that few UK insurers offer this facility and that those who do are obliged to time limit that insurance before registration is completed. I think about one month is the limit, meaning that you need to get all the HMRC, VCA and DVLA paperwork completed within whatever window the insurer imposes. If you will be parking the van off road that may not be such a problem, but completion of some of the registration process is likely to require the vehicle to be physically presented for inspection by, I think, VCA.

 

So, under present circumstances, I think you would be well advised to get all the paperwork completed (so far as possible - including stamped, addressed envelopes! :-)) before you leave UK to collect, to complete the formal purchase and your return to UK as quickly as possible (i.e. if you're going to need an overnight stop, take that before you complete the purchase, then arrive at the dealer as early as possible, do the business, and get away before lunch). Then launch the registration process with as many of the above as possible simultaneously to save the maximum of admin time (I think probably just VCA and HMRC, as you need the HMRC acknowledgement of payment, and the VCA certification, before registration can be completed by DVLA).

 

Don't forget that the present rules can only be relied on until 31 December, which is when we are scheduled to leave Brexit transition, and that no-one, so far as I am aware, has any idea what the rules may be as of 1 Jan 2021. The vehicle importation rules in their present form were an EU introduction in response to complaints that various countries were making the process unreasonably complicated, as a way to protect their own car sales trade from personal imports.

 

I'm sure you are aware of this, but your "window of opportunity" is now quite short.

[Guest rael]

I'm assuming you are talking a LHD vehicle?

 

I've imported a number of LHD motorhomes over the years and it has gradually become more complex. The last one I imported in December 2018. If you are going to do it, do it soon. It's complicated enough whilst we are still in the EU, it expect it will be chaos after 31st December.

The biggest issues i have had were sorting out the lights and the speedo reading. I have a PVC on a Fiat Ducato chassis, so had to physically change the headlights, replacing the LHDs with RHDs. Theoretically it sounds easy, but it was a hassle this time. It doesn't help that the part number for Fiat Ducato RHD headilghts are the same as LHD! I took it to a very good garage in Southampton, who eventually sorted it all out. The speedo is relatively easier and involved sourcing the correct cover probably from Lockwood international. In order to get the vehicle UK registered, and if its LHD you have to get the lights/speedo sorted and apply to VCA for a certificate of mutual recognition before DVLA registration application. The sequence is NOVA, sort lights speedo, VCA then once you have Certificate then apply to DVLA. In terms of insurance, I took a chance with the German trade plates and Adrian Flux insured the van from arrival in UK.

[fripp]

Thanks all.

 

Looks like the HMRC NOVA process is all online now. Just created a draft to see how it works. You enter the mileage online here. Can anyone provide any feedback as whether their is any processing time after the online form is completed before DVLA process can be started. Or is it fairly instant once the NOVA is completed. In my case there should be no VAT to pay.

 

I won't be able to pick vehicle up until late this year but I would think as long as I get the vehicle imported and the NOVA completed before 31/12 than I should be under the wire for Brexit. The DVLA process could leak into 2021 once the import is complete.

[Derek Uzzell]

There is a piece in the latest issue of MMM magazine (August 2020, Page 28) warning of the DVLA’s current slowness in registering new motorhomes.

 

The problem (as I understand it) is that UK registration for motorhomes involves human effort to process paperwork and the DVLA is operating with a much reduced number of staff. DVLA fully automated procedures (eg. taxing or SORNing) are OK, but anything that involves people overseeing a process is taking longer than normal.

 

I would have thought that, as far as the HMRC and the on-line NOVA process are concerned, whatever used to happen delay-wise pre-COVID-19 cannot be expected to have got quicker. Realistically, all one can do is submit an application and see what happens.

 

But, as you won’t be bringing in your motorhome until late 2020, things may have improved by then.

[slowdriver]

I am in the middle of the paperwork exercise for importing a new van at the moment. The NOVA process was straight forward, apart from a few technical glitches, and took only four working days. I am using a third party agent to handle the paperwork. They process a large number of LHD car imports and they indicated that immediately after lockdown (March 23rd I think), the turnaround became 12 weeks because of distancing requirements. When extending my cover note earlier this week I was told by the insurance agent that he believed the current delay to be six weeks. So we are hoping for the best (six weeks) and planning for the worst (12 weeks) in terms of trips before October/Nov. It is what it is.

[fripp]

Thanks if I can get the NOVA done in 4 days it will work out fine for me. The van can stay on the drive until I can get the DVLA, Road Tax and Insurance sorted out after this.