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Sunak to raise tax on jobs


John52

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It's quite possible to have a civilised discussion about the pros and cons of the Eat Out scheme but sadly not with a incurably blinkered person like you. And while clearly the Government will have to start recovering the costs of all these coronavirus moves to protect people (and jobs) sometime and there are inevitably going to be some job losses due the the pandemic, only a blinkered fool would immediately label any hint of a tax increase as a "tax on jobs", as if that was somehow deliberate.
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Now he is going to tax existing jobs with National Insurance, and use the money to hire more work coaches.

Can anybody explain whats the point of work coaches without jobs for them to go to *-)

Because as far as I can see, when you have more people than jobs, teaching people how to write a CV to get them one of the jobs, does not reduce the total number unemployed.

Its just rearranging the jobs queue.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/oct/05/new-jobs-coaches-will-help-people-back-to-work-says-rishi-sunak

This makes about as much sense as giving people money to go to the pub in a pandemic :-S

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John52 - 2020-10-05 11:20 AM

 

National Insurance is a tax on jobs.

Do I have to explain to a Doctor how removing face masks and reducing social distancing in pubs has spread the virus?

 

On that basis so is Income Tax a tax on jobs I suppose, although of course both income tax and NI have a threshold for payment, so that low earners and non-earners don't have to pay. It's system of taxing the better off (in terms of income) in order to raise money which can pay for benefits to the less well off (some of whom don't pay anything and also get free housing and excused from Council Tax) so isn't that what you would approve of happening, at least in principle?

 

No, you don't have to explain the risks of allowing pubs to reopen to me and I do understand that this is part of the balance the Government are trying to strike in controling the spread of coronavirus without completely trashing the economy, which would also cause unacceptable damage to people, eg the loss of more and more jobs. We rarely go into a pub and haven't done so for over a year so I haven't given the detail of the risks of allowing pubs to operate during the pandemic much thought.

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StuartO - 2020-10-05 12:24 PM

 

John52 - 2020-10-05 11:20 AM

 

National Insurance is a tax on jobs.

Do I have to explain to a Doctor how removing face masks and reducing social distancing in pubs has spread the virus?

 

On that basis so is Income Tax a tax on jobs I suppose, although of course both income tax and NI have a threshold for payment, so that low earners and non-earners don't have to pay. It's system of taxing the better off (in terms of income) in order to raise money which can pay for benefits to the less well off (some of whom don't pay anything and also get free housing and excused from Council Tax) so isn't that what you would approve of happening, at least in principle?

 

No, you don't have to explain the risks of allowing pubs to reopen to me and I do understand that this is part of the balance the Government are trying to strike in controling the spread of coronavirus without completely trashing the economy, which would also cause unacceptable damage to people, eg the loss of more and more jobs. We rarely go into a pub and haven't done so for over a year so I haven't given the detail of the risks of allowing pubs to operate during the pandemic much thought.

High street and casual dining sector was already in crisis before covid. Now less people can afford to eat out, and many of those who can won't for fear of catching covid. Sad truth is we have too many shops, pubs and restaurants, some need to close. But the Government won't face up to that because it isn't popular. So Sunak is spreading the virus and waste hundreds of £millions delaying the inevitable.

 

Of course the Government needs to raise taxes, especially now with all the money BoJo is spaffing away. But there are better ways of raising it than taxing jobs. Like getting into Her Majesty's Tax Havens and making the £billionaire owners of Tory supporting 'newspapers' pay tax. Which the EU wants to do,and which is the real reason for Brexit >:-)

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Guest pelmetman
John52 - 2020-10-05 11:20 AM

 

National Insurance is a tax on jobs.

Do I have to explain to a Doctor how removing face masks and reducing social distancing in pubs has spread the virus?

 

Seeing as the scientific evidence says its being spread mainly in peoples houses ;-) ..........

 

You are just peddling your Boris bashing hobby horse as per usual *-) ........

 

I'd say get a life >:-) ..........

 

But I doubt you would know what to do with it...........

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John52 - 2020-10-06 9:38 AM

 

pelmetman - 2020-10-06 9:00 AM

 

 

Seeing as the scientific evidence says its being spread mainly in peoples houses ;-) ..........

 

..........

 

So why are they closing pubs at 10 *-)

 

Presumably they think drinking and eating in pubs before 10 o'clock is likely to be done with reasonable regard to social distancing while after 10 o'clock the partying brigade get more active. Closing at 10 presumably discourages the partying brigade from bothering to come out at all so this way at least the pubs get some early evening business.

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StuartO - 2020-10-06 9:47 AM

 

John52 - 2020-10-06 9:38 AM

 

pelmetman - 2020-10-06 9:00 AM

 

 

Seeing as the scientific evidence says its being spread mainly in peoples houses ;-) ..........

 

..........

 

So why are they closing pubs at 10 *-)

 

Presumably they think drinking and eating in pubs before 10 o'clock is likely to be done with reasonable regard to social distancing while after 10 o'clock the partying brigade get more active. Closing at 10 presumably discourages the partying brigade from bothering to come out at all so this way at least the pubs get some early evening business.

 

Or looking at some of the scenes that have been in the news everyone spilling out at the same time into the streets and continuing the partying there or back at peoples houses. If the pubs must be open then perhaps it would have been better to let them stay open as long as they like which would stop everyone massing out into the street at the same time and cramming as much down their necks in as short a time as possible.

 

Personally I just wouldn't go near a pub or restaurant at all now and have not done so this entire year at all. Its sad but its inevitable that many will ultimately fold.

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Barryd999 - 2020-10-06 10:50 AM Or looking at some of the scenes that have been in the news everyone spilling out at the same time into the streets and continuing the partying there or back at peoples houses. If the pubs must be open then perhaps it would have been better to let them stay open as long as they like which would stop everyone massing out into the street at the same time and cramming as much down their necks in as short a time as possible.

 

Personally I just wouldn't go near a pub or restaurant at all now and have not done so this entire year at all. Its sad but its inevitable that many will ultimately fold.

 

I had the impression that those street scenes of younger people clustering in the streets was later on, after later closing etc but maybe I've missed something. But as you say for more careful people, pubs and restaurants are something of a no-go area and are liely to continue to be until the coronavirus outbreak is over properly - if there are any left by then.

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StuartO - 2020-10-06 9:47 AM

 

 

Presumably they think drinking and eating in pubs before 10 o'clock is likely to be done with reasonable regard to social distancing

 

In which case they are very seriously out of touch with the situation 8-)

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StuartO - 2020-10-06 11:02 AM

 

Barryd999 - 2020-10-06 10:50 AM Or looking at some of the scenes that have been in the news everyone spilling out at the same time into the streets and continuing the partying there or back at peoples houses. If the pubs must be open then perhaps it would have been better to let them stay open as long as they like which would stop everyone massing out into the street at the same time and cramming as much down their necks in as short a time as possible.

 

Personally I just wouldn't go near a pub or restaurant at all now and have not done so this entire year at all. Its sad but its inevitable that many will ultimately fold.

 

I had the impression that those street scenes of younger people clustering in the streets was later on, after later closing etc but maybe I've missed something. But as you say for more careful people, pubs and restaurants are something of a no-go area and are liely to continue to be until the coronavirus outbreak is over properly - if there are any left by then.

 

The chaos in the streets was down to the 10pm closing.

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=crowds+gather+in+the+streets+to+carry+on+partying+after+pubs+close+at+10pm&rlz=1C1CHBF_en-GBGB822GB822&oq=crowds+gather+in+the+streets+to+carry+on+partying+after+pubs+close+at+10pm&aqs=chrome..69i57.17412j1j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

Some say that this did not lead to an increase in infections and its all down to house visits but I reckon thats got to be rubbish. Just look at some of the scenes. Of course some of those boozers could have gone onto house parties. How many houses have you been in since this all began? I can count mine on one hand. two houses and two small offices.

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Guest pelmetman
Barryd999 - 2020-10-06 2:07 PM

 

StuartO - 2020-10-06 11:02 AM

 

Barryd999 - 2020-10-06 10:50 AM Or looking at some of the scenes that have been in the news everyone spilling out at the same time into the streets and continuing the partying there or back at peoples houses. If the pubs must be open then perhaps it would have been better to let them stay open as long as they like which would stop everyone massing out into the street at the same time and cramming as much down their necks in as short a time as possible.

 

Personally I just wouldn't go near a pub or restaurant at all now and have not done so this entire year at all. Its sad but its inevitable that many will ultimately fold.

 

I had the impression that those street scenes of younger people clustering in the streets was later on, after later closing etc but maybe I've missed something. But as you say for more careful people, pubs and restaurants are something of a no-go area and are liely to continue to be until the coronavirus outbreak is over properly - if there are any left by then.

 

The chaos in the streets was down to the 10pm closing.

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=crowds+gather+in+the+streets+to+carry+on+partying+after+pubs+close+at+10pm&rlz=1C1CHBF_en-GBGB822GB822&oq=crowds+gather+in+the+streets+to+carry+on+partying+after+pubs+close+at+10pm&aqs=chrome..69i57.17412j1j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

Some say that this did not lead to an increase in infections and its all down to house visits but I reckon thats got to be rubbish. Just look at some of the scenes. Of course some of those boozers could have gone onto house parties. How many houses have you been in since this all began? I can count mine on one hand. two houses and two small offices.

 

So are all those members of the Young & Dumb brigade more likely to catch the lurgy in the pub or on the street? >:-) ...........

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Barryd999 - 2020-10-06 2:07 PM

 

StuartO - 2020-10-06 11:02 AM

 

Barryd999 - 2020-10-06 10:50 AM Or looking at some of the scenes that have been in the news everyone spilling out at the same time into the streets and continuing the partying there or back at peoples houses. If the pubs must be open then perhaps it would have been better to let them stay open as long as they like which would stop everyone massing out into the street at the same time and cramming as much down their necks in as short a time as possible.

 

Personally I just wouldn't go near a pub or restaurant at all now and have not done so this entire year at all. Its sad but its inevitable that many will ultimately fold.

 

I had the impression that those street scenes of younger people clustering in the streets was later on, after later closing etc but maybe I've missed something. But as you say for more careful people, pubs and restaurants are something of a no-go area and are liely to continue to be until the coronavirus outbreak is over properly - if there are any left by then.

 

The chaos in the streets was down to the 10pm closing.

 

Some say that this did not lead to an increase in infections and its all down to house visits but I reckon thats got to be rubbish. Just look at some of the scenes.

Some of those links are pretty mad and show Brits drink culture at it's worst. I've never quite 'got' the whole concept of it as by the time the 11pm 'last orders' gave way to the change in the Licensing Act bringing 24 hour drinking, i'd long stopped bothering about pubs. When i used to go it was once a week with friends and the most any of us had was three maybe four pints, all of us worked and some like myself worked shifts. Getting out of bed at 4am on a freezing cold morning isn't much fun.

 

Town centres seem to be trouble spots now with pubs open late and the drunks spilling out puking up in the gutters when they aren't busy scrapping. Watch any police docs and they're out every night slinging them into the paddy wagon. Funnily enough there's a series on Pick channel called "The Force: North East" about Tyneside police.

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pelmetman - 2020-10-06 2:52 PM

 

Barryd999 - 2020-10-06 2:07 PM

 

StuartO - 2020-10-06 11:02 AM

 

Barryd999 - 2020-10-06 10:50 AM Or looking at some of the scenes that have been in the news everyone spilling out at the same time into the streets and continuing the partying there or back at peoples houses. If the pubs must be open then perhaps it would have been better to let them stay open as long as they like which would stop everyone massing out into the street at the same time and cramming as much down their necks in as short a time as possible.

 

Personally I just wouldn't go near a pub or restaurant at all now and have not done so this entire year at all. Its sad but its inevitable that many will ultimately fold.

 

I had the impression that those street scenes of younger people clustering in the streets was later on, after later closing etc but maybe I've missed something. But as you say for more careful people, pubs and restaurants are something of a no-go area and are liely to continue to be until the coronavirus outbreak is over properly - if there are any left by then.

 

The chaos in the streets was down to the 10pm closing.

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=crowds+gather+in+the+streets+to+carry+on+partying+after+pubs+close+at+10pm&rlz=1C1CHBF_en-GBGB822GB822&oq=crowds+gather+in+the+streets+to+carry+on+partying+after+pubs+close+at+10pm&aqs=chrome..69i57.17412j1j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

Some say that this did not lead to an increase in infections and its all down to house visits but I reckon thats got to be rubbish. Just look at some of the scenes. Of course some of those boozers could have gone onto house parties. How many houses have you been in since this all began? I can count mine on one hand. two houses and two small offices.

 

So are all those members of the Young & Dumb brigade more likely to catch the lurgy in the pub or on the street? >:-) ...........

 

Well as far as I know in the pubs they have to behave now, table service etc so once let out they seemed to be doing WTF they liked so I guess the chances of them catching it or spreading it is probably pretty equal in either. Less likely outside than in normally but not if you are going around either trying to kiss everyone or punch them. Its clearly mainly a northern thing as this is where the spikes are. They are all in areas where people seem to misbehave, not follow the rules and voted for Brexit which makes them stupid. (lol)

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Guest pelmetman
Barryd999 - 2020-10-06 4:29 PM

 

pelmetman - 2020-10-06 2:52 PM

 

Barryd999 - 2020-10-06 2:07 PM

 

StuartO - 2020-10-06 11:02 AM

 

Barryd999 - 2020-10-06 10:50 AM Or looking at some of the scenes that have been in the news everyone spilling out at the same time into the streets and continuing the partying there or back at peoples houses. If the pubs must be open then perhaps it would have been better to let them stay open as long as they like which would stop everyone massing out into the street at the same time and cramming as much down their necks in as short a time as possible.

 

Personally I just wouldn't go near a pub or restaurant at all now and have not done so this entire year at all. Its sad but its inevitable that many will ultimately fold.

 

I had the impression that those street scenes of younger people clustering in the streets was later on, after later closing etc but maybe I've missed something. But as you say for more careful people, pubs and restaurants are something of a no-go area and are liely to continue to be until the coronavirus outbreak is over properly - if there are any left by then.

 

The chaos in the streets was down to the 10pm closing.

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=crowds+gather+in+the+streets+to+carry+on+partying+after+pubs+close+at+10pm&rlz=1C1CHBF_en-GBGB822GB822&oq=crowds+gather+in+the+streets+to+carry+on+partying+after+pubs+close+at+10pm&aqs=chrome..69i57.17412j1j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

Some say that this did not lead to an increase in infections and its all down to house visits but I reckon thats got to be rubbish. Just look at some of the scenes. Of course some of those boozers could have gone onto house parties. How many houses have you been in since this all began? I can count mine on one hand. two houses and two small offices.

 

So are all those members of the Young & Dumb brigade more likely to catch the lurgy in the pub or on the street? >:-) ...........

 

Well as far as I know in the pubs they have to behave now, table service etc so once let out they seemed to be doing WTF they liked so I guess the chances of them catching it or spreading it is probably pretty equal in either. Less likely outside than in normally but not if you are going around either trying to kiss everyone or punch them. Its clearly mainly a northern thing as this is where the spikes are. They are all in areas where people seem to misbehave, not follow the rules and voted for Brexit which makes them stupid. (lol)

 

More Barry Fake News *-) ..........

 

Cornwall/Devon/ voted for Brexit......So did Dorset B-) .........along with the majority of the UK >:-) ...........

 

But we have the lowest levels of Chinky flu in the UK B-) ..........

 

 

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pelmetman - 2020-10-07 9:29 AM

 

John52 - 2020-10-07 8:32 AM

 

Sunak needs to raise our taxes because he has been taken for a ride by fraudsters;

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/nils-pratley-on-finance/2020/oct/07/questions-treasury-covid-loan-scheme-bites-back

 

Shouldn't the haters wait to see if the loans are paid back before they start their hating? *-) ..........

 

Paid back *-)

Who is going to pay it back when Sunak has paid it to Companies that don't even exist' *-)

This is the equivalent of paying out to every cold call scammer and expecting the police to get it back - when they warned you not to before you did it

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pelmetman - 2020-10-07 9:36 AM

 

Barryd999 - 2020-10-06 4:29 PM

 

pelmetman - 2020-10-06 2:52 PM

 

Barryd999 - 2020-10-06 2:07 PM

 

StuartO - 2020-10-06 11:02 AM

 

Barryd999 - 2020-10-06 10:50 AM Or looking at some of the scenes that have been in the news everyone spilling out at the same time into the streets and continuing the partying there or back at peoples houses. If the pubs must be open then perhaps it would have been better to let them stay open as long as they like which would stop everyone massing out into the street at the same time and cramming as much down their necks in as short a time as possible.

 

Personally I just wouldn't go near a pub or restaurant at all now and have not done so this entire year at all. Its sad but its inevitable that many will ultimately fold.

 

I had the impression that those street scenes of younger people clustering in the streets was later on, after later closing etc but maybe I've missed something. But as you say for more careful people, pubs and restaurants are something of a no-go area and are liely to continue to be until the coronavirus outbreak is over properly - if there are any left by then.

 

The chaos in the streets was down to the 10pm closing.

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=crowds+gather+in+the+streets+to+carry+on+partying+after+pubs+close+at+10pm&rlz=1C1CHBF_en-GBGB822GB822&oq=crowds+gather+in+the+streets+to+carry+on+partying+after+pubs+close+at+10pm&aqs=chrome..69i57.17412j1j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

Some say that this did not lead to an increase in infections and its all down to house visits but I reckon thats got to be rubbish. Just look at some of the scenes. Of course some of those boozers could have gone onto house parties. How many houses have you been in since this all began? I can count mine on one hand. two houses and two small offices.

 

So are all those members of the Young & Dumb brigade more likely to catch the lurgy in the pub or on the street? >:-) ...........

 

Well as far as I know in the pubs they have to behave now, table service etc so once let out they seemed to be doing WTF they liked so I guess the chances of them catching it or spreading it is probably pretty equal in either. Less likely outside than in normally but not if you are going around either trying to kiss everyone or punch them. Its clearly mainly a northern thing as this is where the spikes are. They are all in areas where people seem to misbehave, not follow the rules and voted for Brexit which makes them stupid. (lol)

 

More Barry Fake News *-) ..........

 

Cornwall/Devon/ voted for Brexit......So did Dorset B-) .........along with the majority of the UK >:-) ...........

 

But we have the lowest levels of Chinky flu in the UK B-) ..........

 

 

Just look at the towns with the highest rates of infection. Virtually all high leave voting areas. Cornwall and Devon are miles from anywhere big though and half of Devon is second homes that are dead most of the time.

 

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/uk-news/england-coronavirus-covid-worst-places-19013634

 

Middlesbrough which is your typical Brexit voting town is about 40 miles to the east of where I live. They voted heavily for Brexit and have the worst record in the country for breaking Covid rules. Sunderland similar.

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jumpstart - 2020-10-07 8:57 AM

 

John52 - 2020-10-07 8:32 AM

 

Sunak needs to raise our taxes because he has been taken for a ride by fraudsters;

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/nils-pratley-on-finance/2020/oct/07/questions-treasury-covid-loan-scheme-bites-back

 

And that’s somehow his fault? Isn’t that what fraudsters do...take advantage.

Looks like sloppy auditing by the Treasury who were warned......but didn't listen.

 

Lenders were under orders, in effect, to perform only cursory ID checks in the interest of speed. That was the government’s choice – indeed, it was made in the face of an explicit warning by the British Business Bank, overseeing the scheme, about fraud. Sunak should take note: when you’re planning to raise taxes, the perception that the Treasury was taken for a ride by conmen for several billions is not a good look.

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Guest pelmetman
John52 - 2020-10-07 11:23 AM

 

pelmetman - 2020-10-07 9:29 AM

 

John52 - 2020-10-07 8:32 AM

 

Sunak needs to raise our taxes because he has been taken for a ride by fraudsters;

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/nils-pratley-on-finance/2020/oct/07/questions-treasury-covid-loan-scheme-bites-back

 

Shouldn't the haters wait to see if the loans are paid back before they start their hating? *-) ..........

 

Paid back *-)

Who is going to pay it back when Sunak has paid it to Companies that don't even exist' *-)

This is the equivalent of paying out to every cold call scammer and expecting the police to get it back - when they warned you not to before you did it

 

Evidence? ;-) .........

 

As I understand it the businesses had to have been in existance before Chinky Flu lockdown began? :D ......

 

So any business that was given the loan that was not operating before then, is down to the incompetance of the banking numpty that authorised it :-| ..........

 

So it should be the bank that is liable for any defaults >:-) ........

 

 

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Bulletguy - 2020-10-07 2:48 PM

 

jumpstart - 2020-10-07 8:57 AM

 

John52 - 2020-10-07 8:32 AM

 

Sunak needs to raise our taxes because he has been taken for a ride by fraudsters;

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/nils-pratley-on-finance/2020/oct/07/questions-treasury-covid-loan-scheme-bites-back

 

And that’s somehow his fault? Isn’t that what fraudsters do...take advantage.

Looks like sloppy auditing by the Treasury who were warned......but didn't listen.

 

Lenders were under orders, in effect, to perform only cursory ID checks in the interest of speed. That was the government’s choice – indeed, it was made in the face of an explicit warning by the British Business Bank, overseeing the scheme, about fraud. Sunak should take note: when you’re planning to raise taxes, the perception that the Treasury was taken for a ride by conmen for several billions is not a good look.

 

Typical Cummings over ruling Civil Servants because he thinks he knows better >:-(

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