dawki Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 Hi all I have been looking at GTW (van and trailer weight) For different van manufacturers I have been able to easily get GTW of every type of van online except Fiat Ducato I have looked at the brochure but can see no mention of the GTW unless I’ve missed it But all over brochures clearly state this for all the different models Does anyone please know where I can find this for the different Ducato’s I'm looking for a high GTW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 The GTW for our 3.5t Maxi chassis x250 is 6.5t. Not sure if upping the GVW will also increase this or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 The information you're looking for can be gleaned from the pricelist, the current one for the panel van being available here: Link to Fiat pricelist (it gives the maximum towing weight by version). Patently, things get more messy for the chassis version, since converters may (and often do) alter the characteristics such that their own, lower, limits apply. (Link shortened to fit page width - Keithl) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 colin - 2020-10-25 11:33 AM The GTW for our 3.5t Maxi chassis x250 is 6.5t. Not sure if upping the GVW will also increase this or not. ...it doesn't... ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawki Posted October 25, 2020 Author Share Posted October 25, 2020 Thanks Colin 6.5t is in line with the heavy relay/ boxer vans Robin I can see tow Weights very many thanks but can’t see GTW on the list? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 I believe GTW will be the sum of GVW and "Towing Weight" in the case of this pricelist (I think you'll find "Towing Weight" is meaningless in plating terms, but is derived in this case by subtracting the GVW from the GTW). As I've already said, it will be a minefield in the case of coachbuilt conversions. My 'van left Fiat with a GTW of 6150kg (3650 GVW and 2500 "Towing Weight"), but stage 2 and 3 plates on conversion have reduced that GTW GVW to 5500kg (and the GVW to 3500kg). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawki Posted October 25, 2020 Author Share Posted October 25, 2020 Robinhood - 2020-10-25 1:58 PM I believe GTW will be the sum of GVW and "Towing Weight" in the case of this pricelist (I think you'll find "Towing Weight" is meaningless in plating terms, but is derived in this case by subtracting the GVW from the GTW). As I've already said, it will be a minefield in the case of coachbuilt conversions. My 'van left Fiat with a GTW of 6150kg (3650 GVW and 2500 "Towing Weight"), but stage 2 and 3 plates on conversion have reduced that GVW to 5500kg (and the GVW to 3500kg). Hi Robin I don’t thinks this is correct to be honest I know a Ford Transit 3500kg with a GTW of 5500kg can tow 2800kg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 dawki - 2020-10-25 3:18 PM Hi Robin I don’t thinks this is correct to be honest I know a Ford Transit 3500kg with a GTW of 5500kg can tow 2800kg ...it may or may not be able to, but not (legally) if it is running at its full 3500 GVW, since it would then be exceeding the GTW at 6300kg vs 5500kg... The manufacturer's recommended towing weight is conventionally the GTW less the GVW. A vehicle may technically be able to tow more than this if it is not loaded to the maximum, but I wouldn't want to do so without some pretty firm evidence from the manufacturer that the towing limit can exceed the above calculation (I think Ford, for a limited number of models, quote a braked trailer limit greater than the value provided by that calculation, but the GTW as quoted still cannot be exceeded so the towing vehicle would have to be below its GVW in this case. I can find no evidence Fiat do this, and their ex-factory GTW consists of the GVW plus "Maximum Towing Weight" in every case I can find). AIUI, the actual GTW "on the road" is used for any calculations on legality, rather than the sum of plated weights of the vehicle and trailer (and subject to not exceeding any manufacturer figures for towing limit). My (original) Fiat plate is entirely in line with the Fiat pricelist figures with a GTW that consists of the plated GVW, plus the quoted towing weight (but the GTW has been downgraded, and replated, by the fitting of an Al-Ko chassis). (I also note I used GVW in one place in my previous post where it should have stated GTW). (Corrected - Keithl) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 dawki - 2020-10-25 3:18 PM Robinhood - 2020-10-25 1:58 PM I believe GTW will be the sum of GVW and "Towing Weight" in the case of this pricelist (I think you'll find "Towing Weight" is meaningless in plating terms, but is derived in this case by subtracting the GVW from the GTW). As I've already said, it will be a minefield in the case of coachbuilt conversions. My 'van left Fiat with a GTW of 6150kg (3650 GVW and 2500 "Towing Weight"), but stage 2 and 3 plates on conversion have reduced that GVW to 5500kg (and the GVW to 3500kg). Hi Robin I don’t thinks this is correct to be honest I know a Ford Transit 3500kg with a GTW of 5500kg can tow 2800kg Download the Ducato owner's manual from the Fiat Professional website for the year you are looking at. Ours is an X290, 130ps multijet, maxi chassis, plated at 3,500kg, first reg December 2017, GTW 6,500kg. The stated maximum towing weight for the "light" chassis - all engine variants, plated at whatever GVW between 3,000kg and 3,650kg, is 2,500kg (with max 100kg hitch downforce), so effective GTW = 2,500kg + plated GVW. For the "heavy", or "maxi", chassis - all engine variants, this increases to 3,000kg (with 120kg max hitch downforce) if plated at 3,500kg - so GTW 6,500kg; reducing to 2,500kg (100kg) if plated at 4,005kg - so GTW 6,505kg; to 2250kg (100kg) if plated at 4,250kg - so GTW 6,500kg; and to 2,100kg (100kg) if plated at 4,400kg - so GTW 6,600kg. (And no, there is no explanation of the extra 5kg GTW when plated at 4,005kg! :-)) An unbraked trailer is limited to 750kg whatever the chassis/engine. Thus spake the owner's manual! :-D But, whether looking at PVCs, coachbuilts, or A Class vans, do remember that the converter's plate will rule, not the Fiat plate, and that due to the higher unladen weight of the converted van compared to the standard panel van, plus possibly AlKo chassis limits, the GTW may be reduced below the above figures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawki Posted October 25, 2020 Author Share Posted October 25, 2020 Very many thanks for both of your in depth replies This is the info I was looking for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyishuk Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 Bearing mind that the usual figures totted out for towing a trailer are 85 % recommended, and 100% maximum of the towing vehicle weight. If in an accident over these figures, matters can go pear shaped with Mr Plod and insurance companies. Just saying ! Rgds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 But Tony, even if the van were plated at 3,000kg (which, assuming a motorhome is the subject of the query, seems unlikely) a 2,500kg trailer is only 83% of its plated weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyishuk Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 I don't know too much about van based towing figures. Having seen contactors vans pulling trailers with diggers on board, In the back of my mind is the idea that some manufacturers build in extra capacity to allow for heavier tow loads. The good old Landrover could tow a couple of times its own weight plus without losing the tow-bar. That said the modern Landies probably would part company some where between the driver and the rear passenger seat if asked to pull that weight now. Rgds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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