Trump's Survival Strategy

[StuartO]

Biden is hopeful of victory in the polls and Trump thinks he's in danger of losing, so he seems to be adopting a Wrecking Strategy; a combination of legal chllenges to counting postal votes and encouraging his supporters to gather outside (and inside) the counting halls to disrupt things, perhaps escalating into wrecking the counting process and destroying the postal votes because they are likely to help Biden rather than him. Biden is pointing out that Democracy itself is under attack and I think he's right.

 

Trump is admired by his supporters because he is an effective bussinessman who sweeps aside obstacles to get things done. He does seem to have helped the US economy to survive the coronavirus pandemic with reduced damage because of doing this, albeit at the price of down-playing the virus and allowing more infections and deaths. For example he implied a promise that all Americans would get the monoclonal antibodies which nipped his virus infection in the bud and he's made lots more wild promises of fixing things and told whopping great lies as necessary along the way. That his style, promise the earth as necessary because the gullible public will swallow it. He is a completely ruthless businessman in his approach which seems to be completely amoral.

 

And is there a limit to his ruthlessness? Is there any difference between a Trump-style ruthless businessman and the head of a mafia-style gang? Will Trump really call for "patriots" to step up and force the counting halls to close by violent means to assert his false claims to have won the election? Will Trump stop at nothing, not even civil war, to perpetuate his rule?

 

It's beginning to look like he might well have no inhibitions at all in his ruthless pursuit of another term of office. And then what? If he wins that will he want to continue indefinitely and find a way of doing that?

[John52]

StuartO - 2020-11-05 8:53 AM

 

Trump is admired by his supporters because he is an effective bussinessman

 

That reminds me of the Spitting Image of Thatcher where she says 'I've created lots of small businesses. By starting with Large Ones' (lol)

Its been calculated Trump would have done better to have put his vast inheritance in an S&P500 tracker fund.

And he is the first US President to hide his tax returns

Apparently they show him losing money

 

Turnberry has never made money under his ownership

Despite all the US military business he has put through Prestwick

Like BoJo, they present this myth that Trump is good for business.

But they are so incompetent that worldwide shares are rising on hopes of the Left wing candidate winning 8-)

[Barryd999]

Agree with John. He' s not the great businessman people assume he is. I believe four or five of his companies have gone bankrupt. He inherited his money as John says.

 

An evil man and the sooner the world is shot if him the better IMO but look at the division and hatred he and the populist wave has caused. Not just in the USA but here also.

 

I dont want to count my chickens just yet but bringing down Trump will smash a sledge hammer through the Bannon, Trump, Farage etc Populist uprising which is all interconnected and global.

 

Its far from over though. Its going to get messy and probably violent. Trump is already inciting that. I saw this email last night. As far as I know its genuine. Trump Crowds shouting stop the count where Biden is starting to gain and Trump crowds shouting continue the Count where trump is gaining. Talk about perverting democracy. "Stop the count" its akin to getting halfway through a football game when you are two nil up then declaring the game should be stopped because you are winning. Jeesaz.

 

[StuartO]

John52 - 2020-11-05 9:14 AM That reminds me of ....

 

It's pity that you always seem to feel the need to trot out whichever of your attitudinal expressions occur to you as relevant because it's somehow never possible to have a grown up dialogue with you about anything.

 

The issue here is Trump's utter ruthlessness in getting his son and his lawyer to sound off about wholesale election fraud (with no evidence at all of any such) simply as a way of trying to exclude postal votes from counting because they are thought more likely to favour his opponent. It's an act of desperation which seems doomed to failure in the courts but will also allow time to raise the rabble (whom he will describe as "patriots") to storm the counting houses and wreck the count to prevent his opponent winning in the key states. There are already people carrying rifles mustering outside counting house at Trump's behest; it's almost unbelievable what Trump is willing to risk happening to try to anyway at all to avoid defeat. Trump seems to be willing to cause large scale civil discord and violence to take even a small chance of getting his way to avoid losing.

 

There is an interview on Sky TV at the moment with a Trump supporter in Arizona who is quietly and purposefully pointing out that "we in Arizona like to carry our guns and defend our families and a Biden-Harris regime is simply not going to happen".

[Violet1956]

Playing devil’s advocate for the moment. Trump’s claim of voting fraud is being dismissed as an assertion without evidence. He may be wrong to claim that now but I believe he is entitled to an investigation post-election to rule it out if he loses. So far there has been evidence of incompetence on the part of some states when issuing voting papers and some rogue postal workers have dumped postal votes. The US Postal service has failed to deliver all postal votes on time. A judgement by the Supreme Court on whether the result can be confirmed despite these anomalies appears to be necessary to me. I am no admirer of Trump to put it mildly, but if Biden wins, he may need a judgement that the results are bona fide if his Presidency is to be accepted as legitimate.

[StuartO]

Indeed yes, but of course if Trump makes the complaint the courts are presumably entitled to look for some evidence of electroral fraud before automatically ordering an expensive and time-consuming detailed investigation. And Trump's current term of office doesn't get extended if there is no result by January 20th and the Speaker of the House takes over as interim President while the result is eventually decided.

 

Unlike our own system of counting and declarations of results locally in 625 relatively small constituencies, the US system seems to be bound to take a long time to count everything because each State has huge numbers to count and validate and indeed each State also has its own laws about elections and counting, which almost begs for Trumpian manipulative challenges. So the result of the Presidential elections seems to depend on whichever is the losing party accepting defeat (in order to avoid undue and undignified delay, which trum has no scruples about causing to avoid acknowledging defeat) once the inevitable result becomes apparent, without waiting for completion of formal counting and if necessary recounting, because the Electoral College system normally delivers a clear enough estimated (but undeniable) result quite quickly.

 

The problem now is that Trump is determined to take any route to victory by any means at any price, even if this involves demolishing the democratic process and getting his gun-carrying supporters to wreck the counting halls and destroy the potentially unfavourable postal votes in order to achieve a claimable pretence of a favourable result. Trump has of course also been accused of starving the US Postal Services of resources to try to frustrate postal voting even before the election began. It's becoming clear that the guy is an utterly unscrupulous crook. He might even be prepared to encourage civil war to achieve his personal aims. These are not safe times in America.

[Barryd999]

Violet1956 - 2020-11-05 11:18 AM

 

Playing devil’s advocate for the moment. Trump’s claim of voting fraud is being dismissed as an assertion without evidence. He may be wrong to claim that now but I believe he is entitled to an investigation post-election to rule it out if he loses. So far there has been evidence of incompetence on the part of some states when issuing voting papers and some rogue postal workers have dumped postal votes. The US Postal service has failed to deliver all postal votes on time. A judgement by the Supreme Court on whether the result can be confirmed despite these anomalies appears to be necessary to me. I am no admirer of Trump to put it mildly, but if Biden wins, he may need a judgement that the results are bona fide if his Presidency is to be accepted as legitimate.

 

Apparently 27% of the postal votes in Florida went missing so it could actually backfire on Trump. I agree with Stuart though. His true colours and that of his vile family and supporters are really emerging now not that many of us had any doubts. An Evil man that given the chance would have turned out to be the worst dictator the world has ever seen and the fact that he would have become one in the heart of our western democracy is even more disturbing.

 

 

[StuartO]

Barryd999 - 2020-11-05 12:04 PM Apparently 27% of the postal votes in Florida went missing so it could actually backfire on Trump. I agree with Stuart though. His true colours and that of his vile family and supporters are really emerging now not that many of us had any doubts. An Evil man that given the chance would have turned out to be the worst dictator the world has ever seen and the fact that he would have become one in the heart of our western democracy is even more disturbing.

 

And most worrying of all is that close to 50% of US voters support him, many of the passionately, and most of those will be owners of guns and are being conditioned to think their candidate has been robbed of his honest and justified Seccond Term by villainous, cheating Democrats.

 

We should never forget that Hitler came to power as Fuhrer (i.e. as a dictator) in Germany by means of a democratic vote.

[John52]

StuartO - 2020-11-05 10:38 AM

It's pity that you always seem to feel the need to trot out whichever of your attitudinal expressions occur to you as relevant

 

You asserted Trump is an effective businessman

Or had you forgotten ?

Send for Dr Shipman ;-)

[StuartO]

John52 - 2020-11-05 12:39 PM

 

StuartO - 2020-11-05 10:38 AM

It's pity that you always seem to feel the need to trot out whichever of your attitudinal expressions occur to you as relevant

 

You asserted Trump is an effective businessman

Or had you forgotten ?

Send for Dr Shipman ;-)

 

Forgive me; I didn’t express myself clearly. It’s a pity that all you often do is take every opportunities to trot out your favourite hobby horses instead of properly addressing the topic under discussion. Effective doesn’t mean good or efficient, it just means he has a sustained role and impact. Whether he has been genuinely successful in business is another matter.

[Barryd999]

StuartO - 2020-11-05 12:37 PM

 

Barryd999 - 2020-11-05 12:04 PM Apparently 27% of the postal votes in Florida went missing so it could actually backfire on Trump. I agree with Stuart though. His true colours and that of his vile family and supporters are really emerging now not that many of us had any doubts. An Evil man that given the chance would have turned out to be the worst dictator the world has ever seen and the fact that he would have become one in the heart of our western democracy is even more disturbing.

 

And most worrying of all is that close to 50% of US voters support him, many of the passionately, and most of those will be owners of guns and are being conditioned to think their candidate has been robbed of his honest and justified Seccond Term by villainous, cheating Democrats.

 

We should never forget that Hitler came to power as Fuhrer (i.e. as a dictator) in Germany by means of a democratic vote.

 

I think populism just relies on division. Just like here with Brexit it's become a similar war in the US between the so called liberal elite, snowflakes, Remoaner champagne socialist types (how they are perceived) and the no nonsense hang em high brigade and they are so far apart now nearly all reason goes out of the window and neither side will back down even in the presence of overwhelming evidence that they maybe backed the wrong horse.

 

Whichever side of the fence you are on its an ugly state of affairs for any country to be in. I fear for America and the parallels with the rise of the right and populism with the rise of Hitler are very real.

[mtravel]

Radical Left in America?

But where ?

Republicans and Democrats are two sides of the same coin.

Only stupid Yankees are convinced that there are differences among them.

 

The Trump administration's only foreign policy successes have been to empower Putin, Erdogan and Xi Jinping.

The first has reconnected with the radical Arab world, the second does what he wants and threatens the NATO, the third is invading Africa and South America.

Compliments.

 

Max

 

p.s. In some languages, KAGA has a special meaning.

As well as POTUS after all.

I'll leave it to some of you to find them.

[Bulletguy]

StuartO - 2020-11-05 8:53 AM

 

Biden is pointing out that Democracy itself is under attack and I think he's right.

Ever since Trump took office it has and got increasingly worse.

 

Trump is admired by his supporters because he is an effective bussinessman who sweeps aside obstacles to get things done. He is a completely ruthless businessman in his approach which seems to be completely amoral.

 

And is there a limit to his ruthlessness? Is there any difference between a Trump-style ruthless businessman and the head of a mafia-style gang? Will Trump really call for "patriots" to step up and force the counting halls to close by violent means to assert his false claims to have won the election? Will Trump stop at nothing, not even civil war, to perpetuate his rule?

It's worth watching this four part documentary screened a few weeks ago which would change your mind on 'effective' businessman. I'd say cavalier and reckless and a number of folk who worked with him so know him personally give the same impression. He bankrupted a damn casino FGS(!!) not many manage to do that but he did purely by ludicrous excesses to satisfy his delusions of grandeur. Not very 'effective'!

 

If you missed it it's still available on catch-up; https://www.channel4.com/programmes/trump-an-american-dream

 

Not much difference between the two comparisons you mentioned. Both sail close to the wind and indulge criminality. If he loses the Presidency as is looking increasingly likely, he would become a private citizen and that much easier for criminal and tax offences to be brought as he'd no longer have executive privilege.

 

I expect he's got his little battalions of "Proud Boys" on standby strutting around in army fatigues, bullet proof vests, and armed to the teeth. They like that militia feeling and don't care much for serving in the military which they'd see as too regimented and oppressive.

 

He's squirming like mad now mainly for the reason i mentioned but it's ironic his behaviour is exactly that of dictators and autocrats clinging to power that he likes to criticise, especially those he wants rid of so the US can install a puppet government.

[John52]

mtravel - 2020-11-05 2:50 PM

The Trump administration's only foreign policy successes have been to empower Putin, Erdogan and Xi Jinping.

 

To be fair Trump empowered Kim Jong Un too - by giving him the photo ops to make him look like a world statesman.

[John52]

StuartO - 2020-11-05 1:39 PM

 

John52 - 2020-11-05 12:39 PM

 

StuartO - 2020-11-05 10:38 AM

It's pity that you always seem to feel the need to trot out whichever of your attitudinal expressions occur to you as relevant

 

You asserted Trump is an effective businessman

Or had you forgotten ?

Send for Dr Shipman ;-)

 

Forgive me; I didn’t express myself clearly. It’s a pity that all you often do is take every opportunities to trot out your favourite hobby horses instead of properly addressing the topic under discussion. Effective doesn’t mean good or efficient, it just means he has a sustained role and impact. Whether he has been genuinely successful in business is another matter.

 

Effective at losing money and bankrupting businesses then.

As I recall, Trump claimed to have written a book called The Deal, which was actually pretty good, and gave Trump credibility.

But it was ghostwritten by someone else, who is now wracked with guilt for selling it to Trump, and enabling Trump to present himself as a good businessman and gain people's confidence.

[Barryd999]

Bulletguy - 2020-11-05 5:21 PM

 

StuartO - 2020-11-05 8:53 AM

 

Biden is pointing out that Democracy itself is under attack and I think he's right.

Ever since Trump took office it has and got increasingly worse.

 

Trump is admired by his supporters because he is an effective bussinessman who sweeps aside obstacles to get things done. He is a completely ruthless businessman in his approach which seems to be completely amoral.

 

And is there a limit to his ruthlessness? Is there any difference between a Trump-style ruthless businessman and the head of a mafia-style gang? Will Trump really call for "patriots" to step up and force the counting halls to close by violent means to assert his false claims to have won the election? Will Trump stop at nothing, not even civil war, to perpetuate his rule?

It's worth watching this four part documentary screened a few weeks ago which would change your mind on 'effective' businessman. I'd say cavalier and reckless and a number of folk who worked with him so know him personally give the same impression. He bankrupted a damn casino FGS(!!) not many manage to do that but he did purely by ludicrous excesses to satisfy his delusions of grandeur. Not very 'effective'!

 

If you missed it it's still available on catch-up; https://www.channel4.com/programmes/trump-an-american-dream

 

Not much difference between the two comparisons you mentioned. Both sail close to the wind and indulge criminality. If he loses the Presidency as is looking increasingly likely, he would become a private citizen and that much easier for criminal and tax offences to be brought as he'd no longer have executive privilege.

 

I expect he's got his little battalions of "Proud Boys" on standby strutting around in army fatigues, bullet proof vests, and armed to the teeth. They like that militia feeling and don't care much for serving in the military which they'd see as too regimented and oppressive.

 

He's squirming like mad now mainly for the reason i mentioned but it's ironic his behaviour is exactly that of dictators and autocrats clinging to power that he likes to criticise, especially those he wants rid of so the US can install a puppet government.

 

If he loses (eventually) I suspect the day he is out the cases will be brought against him. The icing on the cake would be to see him go to jail but I have a feeling he will flee the country.

[Birdbrain]

Barryd999 - 2020-11-05 5:37 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2020-11-05 5:21 PM

 

StuartO - 2020-11-05 8:53 AM

 

Biden is pointing out that Democracy itself is under attack and I think he's right.

Ever since Trump took office it has and got increasingly worse.

 

Trump is admired by his supporters because he is an effective bussinessman who sweeps aside obstacles to get things done. He is a completely ruthless businessman in his approach which seems to be completely amoral.

 

And is there a limit to his ruthlessness? Is there any difference between a Trump-style ruthless businessman and the head of a mafia-style gang? Will Trump really call for "patriots" to step up and force the counting halls to close by violent means to assert his false claims to have won the election? Will Trump stop at nothing, not even civil war, to perpetuate his rule?

It's worth watching this four part documentary screened a few weeks ago which would change your mind on 'effective' businessman. I'd say cavalier and reckless and a number of folk who worked with him so know him personally give the same impression. He bankrupted a damn casino FGS(!!) not many manage to do that but he did purely by ludicrous excesses to satisfy his delusions of grandeur. Not very 'effective'!

 

If you missed it it's still available on catch-up; https://www.channel4.com/programmes/trump-an-american-dream

 

Not much difference between the two comparisons you mentioned. Both sail close to the wind and indulge criminality. If he loses the Presidency as is looking increasingly likely, he would become a private citizen and that much easier for criminal and tax offences to be brought as he'd no longer have executive privilege.

 

I expect he's got his little battalions of "Proud Boys" on standby strutting around in army fatigues, bullet proof vests, and armed to the teeth. They like that militia feeling and don't care much for serving in the military which they'd see as too regimented and oppressive.

 

He's squirming like mad now mainly for the reason i mentioned but it's ironic his behaviour is exactly that of dictators and autocrats clinging to power that he likes to criticise, especially those he wants rid of so the US can install a puppet government.

 

If he loses (eventually) I suspect the day he is out the cases will be brought against him. The icing on the cake would be to see him go to jail but I have a feeling he will flee the country.

 

Are you pi$$ed early ... Go to jail for what exactly and why would he "flee the country" ... You dont half talk crap ... It looks like you have what you have whinged about for the last 4 years and got yaself a new President but instead of rejoicing in winning for once you seem more bitter than ever ... Hate on Chunky

[StuartO]

John52 - 2020-11-05 12:39 PM

You asserted Trump is an effective businessman

Or had you forgotten ?

Send for Dr Shipman ;-)

Perhaps you could explain our comment about Dr Shipman, which I couldn't make any sense out of at all.

[John52]

StuartO - 2020-11-06 8:01 AM

 

John52 - 2020-11-05 12:39 PM

You asserted Trump is an effective businessman

Or had you forgotten ?

Send for Dr Shipman ;-)

Perhaps you could explain our comment about Dr Shipman, which I couldn't make any sense out of at all.

'our comment' ?

do you mean my comment ?

It was a light hearted comment about his solution for dementia :-S

PS: hence the ;-) after it, indicating its not to be taken seriously

[Guest pelmetman]

Barryd999 - 2020-11-05 2:22 PM

 

StuartO - 2020-11-05 12:37 PM

 

Barryd999 - 2020-11-05 12:04 PM Apparently 27% of the postal votes in Florida went missing so it could actually backfire on Trump. I agree with Stuart though. His true colours and that of his vile family and supporters are really emerging now not that many of us had any doubts. An Evil man that given the chance would have turned out to be the worst dictator the world has ever seen and the fact that he would have become one in the heart of our western democracy is even more disturbing.

 

And most worrying of all is that close to 50% of US voters support him, many of the passionately, and most of those will be owners of guns and are being conditioned to think their candidate has been robbed of his honest and justified Seccond Term by villainous, cheating Democrats.

 

We should never forget that Hitler came to power as Fuhrer (i.e. as a dictator) in Germany by means of a democratic vote.

 

I think populism just relies on division. Just like here with Brexit it's become a similar war in the US between the so called liberal elite, snowflakes, Remoaner champagne socialist types (how they are perceived) and the no nonsense hang em high brigade and they are so far apart now nearly all reason goes out of the window and neither side will back down even in the presence of overwhelming evidence that they maybe backed the wrong horse.

 

Whichever side of the fence you are on its an ugly state of affairs for any country to be in. I fear for America and the parallels with the rise of the right and populism with the rise of Hitler are very real.

 

Look on the Brightside Barry ;-) ..........

 

As according to your previous Fake News it means we wont be force fed Chlorinated chicken >:-) .........

[John52]

Trump just crammed most lies ever into one speech

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/nov/06/donald-trumps-speech-all-the-false-claims

Then walked off without taking questions

like 'where is the evidence'

markets falling on fears Trump will cling on to power after being voted out >:-)

[John52]

Apart from Trump & his friend BoJo, I can't think of any others where stock markets prefer the left wing candidate, because the Conservative candidate is so bad

[Barryd999]

Birdbrain - 2020-11-05 7:02 PM

 

Barryd999 - 2020-11-05 5:37 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2020-11-05 5:21 PM

 

StuartO - 2020-11-05 8:53 AM

 

Biden is pointing out that Democracy itself is under attack and I think he's right.

Ever since Trump took office it has and got increasingly worse.

 

Trump is admired by his supporters because he is an effective bussinessman who sweeps aside obstacles to get things done. He is a completely ruthless businessman in his approach which seems to be completely amoral.

 

And is there a limit to his ruthlessness? Is there any difference between a Trump-style ruthless businessman and the head of a mafia-style gang? Will Trump really call for "patriots" to step up and force the counting halls to close by violent means to assert his false claims to have won the election? Will Trump stop at nothing, not even civil war, to perpetuate his rule?

It's worth watching this four part documentary screened a few weeks ago which would change your mind on 'effective' businessman. I'd say cavalier and reckless and a number of folk who worked with him so know him personally give the same impression. He bankrupted a damn casino FGS(!!) not many manage to do that but he did purely by ludicrous excesses to satisfy his delusions of grandeur. Not very 'effective'!

 

If you missed it it's still available on catch-up; https://www.channel4.com/programmes/trump-an-american-dream

 

Not much difference between the two comparisons you mentioned. Both sail close to the wind and indulge criminality. If he loses the Presidency as is looking increasingly likely, he would become a private citizen and that much easier for criminal and tax offences to be brought as he'd no longer have executive privilege.

 

I expect he's got his little battalions of "Proud Boys" on standby strutting around in army fatigues, bullet proof vests, and armed to the teeth. They like that militia feeling and don't care much for serving in the military which they'd see as too regimented and oppressive.

 

He's squirming like mad now mainly for the reason i mentioned but it's ironic his behaviour is exactly that of dictators and autocrats clinging to power that he likes to criticise, especially those he wants rid of so the US can install a puppet government.

 

If he loses (eventually) I suspect the day he is out the cases will be brought against him. The icing on the cake would be to see him go to jail but I have a feeling he will flee the country.

 

Are you pi$$ed early ... Go to jail for what exactly and why would he "flee the country" ... You dont half talk crap ... It looks like you have what you have whinged about for the last 4 years and got yaself a new President but instead of rejoicing in winning for once you seem more bitter than ever ... Hate on Chunky

 

You reckon? Oh I think there is a very good chance he's going to jail alright. (assuming he loses of course)

 

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/11/donald-trump-post-white-house-prosecutions

[StuartO]

Trump is obviously an extremely bad loser and has little if any sensitivity to anyone else's view of his conduct but maybe even he will acknowledge defeat eventually the way things seem to be going (Biden has apparently taken the lead in Georgia this morning) so the penny might drop eventually. Can Trump and his pack of lawyers really think they can steal the election anyway, by mounting legal challenges? Can we still hope for a civilised handover on January 20th unless Trump turns out to be such an unspeakably disruptive and damaging bad loser that he continues his wrecking attempts indefinitely? Time and again I find myself asking whether there are any limits to Trump's awfulness but could he really keep going in his determination to win and never, ever concede indefintely?

 

Interesting suggestion that Trump could eventually end up in jail for his antics but that would take time and controversy on an enormous scale - and that begs the question of whether his non-too-bright, gun-totting supporters would carry on wrecking and rioting to try to get Trump what he wants beyond the point at which Biden clearly wins as the formal (and presumably unstoppable) vote counting process. If Biden wins Georgia, Arizona, Nevada and Pensylvania, as now seems possible, would Trump still try to continue contesting the outcome?

[Guest pelmetman]

StuartO - 2020-11-06 11:21 AM

 

Trump is obviously an extremely bad loser and has little if any sensitivity to anyone else's view

 

There's a lot of them about since 2016 :D ..........