Electrical Problems - Compass Calypso 210

[DerekF]

We purchased a new Compass Calypso 210 in September 2006. We have used it twice and both times we have holidayed in Spain. On both holidays we have experienced the same electrical problem which occurs after we leave the mains hook up. Within a couple of hours of driving we loose all the 12v electrics in the living area. This vehicle has been returned and repaired twice by our dealer. We have also contacted the manufacturer Explorer who after much prompting for a reply to our letters advised that the dealer is responsible for all repairs - not the response I would have expected from the manufacturer.

Has anyone else experienced this or similar problems. We are planning another trip abroad in May but have this nagging doubt that it will all go pear shaped again.

[Terrytraveller]

Hi Derek,

 

Sounds like a connectivity problem, things to check easily and first would be, inline plugs and sockets from the battery onwards. I have an inline plug and socket in the battery box, check that the conductors are secured by gently pulling the crimping also look for corrosion, loose fitting of plug and socket.

 

Replace the split charge plugin relay under the bonnet of the vehicle, the relay is called by the alternator when the engine starts and disconnects the habitation electrics, the relay should close again and reconnect the habitation electrics when the engine is switched off. You may find two relays, (one for the fridge) replace both they are fairly cheap.

 

There are sometimes relays behind the MH distribution box and there are plug and sockets too, all these need checking for secure wiring, crimping etc..

 

Intermittent faults are a real bind, the best way to fix them is when the fault is hard, engine off and with a habitation light switched to the on position, go to the engine compartment, flick the relay/relays top with your finger and reseat disconnect/reconnect, likewise with all the rest of the connections you can find. See which connection puts the hard fault right.

 

Hope above helps - Regards Terry

 

[Guest starspirit]

I would be inclined to consult a local auto electrician or maybe a caravan dealer locally has an auto electrician familiar with split charging circuitry?

 

It sounds to me as if maybe the fridge 12v is permanently connected to the leisure battery instead of only to the vehicle battery and then only when the engine is running but even that should not flatten a battery in two hours unless the battery is duff?

 

Maybe not but it is a starting point and if it is any consolation it is probably something small in cost but expensive in time.

 

Another 'reputable' manufacturer never again to buy a van from eh?

[Peter42]

I will be interested to hear the outcome of this. 3 weeks ago I purchased a new Autocruise Starspirit and have camped only 3 nights in it. Yesterday morning while preparing breakfast I lost all 'caravan' electrics out of the blue. I cannot contact the dealer until Monday morning and then will have a 200+ miles round trip to their premises, no doubt. I have been caravanning and motorcaravanning for nearly 30 years and have had nothing like this happen before, i.e. without any warning at all and with no blown fuses. Although every problem is different, I would like to learn what your dealer finds.

Peter

[Guest starspirit]

It will also be interesting comparing the dealer's and manufacturer's attitudes - assuming they differ that is?

 

Maybe politely pointing out this forum and the chance for them to get a free advert (or the opposite) for good service (or the opposite) might help?

 

But don't hold your breath!

[Brian Kirby]

DerekF - 2007-03-25 6:10 PM We purchased a new Compass Calypso 210 in September 2006. We have used it twice and both times we have holidayed in Spain. On both holidays we have experienced the same electrical problem which occurs after we leave the mains hook up. Within a couple of hours of driving we loose all the 12v electrics in the living area.......

Derek

Can you give a bit more info?  For example, I assume you are driving for these two hours?  What then tells you all the living area electrics have gone?  Does this happen with the engine running, or when it is switched off?  Does the battery meter show any charge in the battery at the time the electrics are off?  If you drive to a site and hook up, do the 12V electrics then come back on?  Have you tried the living area 12V electrics with the hook up disconnected and the engine not started?

[Clive]

The Manufacturer is correct insomuch that the person responsible to you is the person who sold you the MH. Having said that It does seem a little daft that what seems to be a fault in initial construction is not put right by the manufacturer. BUT it is common practice in industry nowadays for the dealers to "buy" the warranty from the manufacturer in the form of a hefty discount.

"At this price mate, if it goes wrong YOU sort it out, OK" would be the conversation twixt manufactuer and dealer.

 

But as Brian has suggested some more detailed information would help any possible diagnosis.

 

Does this vehicle have one of those dreaded habitation isolating relays that turns off all habitation electrics when the engine is running?

 

C.

 

 

 

[Guest starspirit]

If either of you have the latest control panel with an inbuilt battery volt meter you can tell whether the battery is charging, charged or flat from this.

 

If not you will have to resort to a hand held digital voltmeter.

 

I don't know whether the inbuilt one reads whilst the engine is running but if not it the hand held one will and should at least show different voltages on / off mains and on / off engine charge and these should give some good clues as to where to start looking.

[lizken]

Hi Derek,

 

Sorry to hear of the lack of response to your problems, but I am not surprised at the response from Explorer Group.

In the late 80s and early 90s, we had 2 elddis caravans, and the manufacturer would not respond direct to our problems, and did not want to know. All responsibility was passed back to the dealer, who had little back-up either.

Because of this, we would not touch an Explorer Product with a bargepole - dealers tell us that the situation has not changed, which unfortuneately you have found.

Ken

[Peter42]

I phoned my dealer this morning. The techie couldn't offer an explanation and, as I expected, said I would have to travel to their premises for him to look at it. However, he 'phoned back shortly after. He had talked with colleagues and offered the following explanation. The electronic control panel fitted to my Autocruise has been known to 'flip', particularly when the panel is switched to the leisure battery and the engine is started. It should not happen but sometimes does, apparently. In my case this did not apply, as I had not attempted to start the engine when the sytem 'went down'. However, at the instant the power failed my better half was attempting to light the gas grill with the in-built ingnitor. This probably caused the 'flip'. I disconnected the control panel from the wiring loom, waited a minute or so, re-connected it and, low and behold, all electrics came on! Obviously there is a fault there somewhere but, as long as it does not happen often, this simple procedure saves me a 200+ journey to the dealers premises. ;-)

[Brian Kirby]

Well, that sounds like a kind of progress.  I guess "flip" must be an advanced technical term for use on Autocruise control panels!  BBB (bulls**t baffles brains) comes to mind a bit. 

I think what he is saying is that the panel is registering a surge, and cutting off the 12V electrical supply.  Starting the engine probably causes a surge of some sort, but any system intended for motorhome installation should be designed to cope with that surge.  Using the cooker igniter might also cause a surge, though I can't quite see how this would affect the control panel. 

However, what makes me suspicious, is the "this can happen sometimes" line.  The answer to that, is emphatically spherical and plural.  There is a faulty component, a faulty design, or a faulty installation at work - or rather not at work! 

What he is really telling you is that something in your van wiring, or in the control panel itself, is faulty and given the right (wrong?) combination of factors, it registers as a fault, and the panel shuts off the supply to protect the system.

How/why that should happen I couldn't begin to guess, but I wonder if there is some kind of surge protection circuit in the panel that is, for one reason or another, over sensitive or possibly completely inoperative.  However, I bet Autocruise know exactly what the fault is, and I suspect Clive will be very likely know to where to start looking for the answer, when next he's around.

[Clive]

Some good clues there.

Its an EMC problem and the immunity of the control panel electronics is not up to standard. If one was pedantic you could refuse to accept the vehicle on the basis it was non compliant with the EMC part of the Machinery Safety Directive. They would no doubt say that safety is not compromised so it does not need to be compliant with anything. You could look to see if it has an EU mark on it. If it does then it HAS to be compliant.

 

But, how to sort it! Its needs a sparky with a thinking head of an electronics designer though.

 

First item to attend to is the electric water pump, you need to fit a FREE WHEEL DIODE across the pump. Without this the panel may "flip" each time the pump turns off.

 

You need to fit probably a capacitor across the spark generator for the cooker, probably something like a 0.1uF ceramic which is a fast capacitor. This should soak up any transients induced into the DC wiring.

 

You need to ensure that the metalwork of the cooker is bonded to the chassis with the shortest cable possible.

 

You may need to replace the high voltage wires to each sparking point with spark plug suppressor cable.

 

Its probably worth fitting another 0,1uF capacitor directly across the supply and all the inputs to the panel. Probably the outputs as well but these need to be considered one by one knowing the detail of the outputs from the panel.

 

Perhaps a few small ferrite rings around sensitive wires to the panel and also to the cooker spark unit.

 

EMC can be a mine field and my guess is that the designers of the panel have not done sufficient testing with a typical wiring harness attached to it in an EMC test chamber.

 

But this subject is part of my old stamping ground and I normally charge loads of dosh for such advice!

 

Take it back and tell them to sort it!

 

Good luck

 

C.

 

 

 

[Peter42]

'Flip' was my term, not my dealer or Autocruise! In fact, 'power surge' was the term used. It does appear that the control unit may be over sensative and, should it become a problem, my dealer will investigate. I was just grateful that I did not have to make a 200+ mile journey at this time.

But thanks for your interest, Brian.

Peter

[Peter42]

And thanks to |Clive.

As i said before, if it becomes a problem, then back to the dealer it goes!

[Dave Newell]

Hi Peter, you said "It does appear that the control unit may be over sensative and, should it become a problem................." Well it already has become a problem and its not going to cure itself. Clive is, as usual, spot on with his diagnosis and unless you take it back and INSIST on it being put right it will continue to occasionally "flip"out. You might not consider this a problem at the moment but trust me when I say it will continue to happen and according Dr. Sodts law it will occur at the most inopportune moments.

 

D.

[Brian Kirby]

Agreed Dave!  I thought that was why Peter had posted?  Why else bother?

[Guest peter]

Hi, talking about off topic, How is the weather down your way, been brilliant up here the last week so planning the next trip.

Can you still get Topics? I know they're not in the Celebrations selection any more. Perhaps people have gone off Topics.

A hazelnut in every bite init!

I couldn't agree more. By the way everyone, what do you think about this bloke at Barclays who's earned 22 mil?

He a fortuitous codger I reckon - severe case of right place right time.

Glad I don't bank with Barclay's or I might be disposed to dispose of them too.

I've started many topics and watched as the conversation wanders off and on and off again but due to my enduring capacity for tolerance I would never dream of grumbling.

By the way interesting programs on death on TV this evening - any comments anyone?

Why a message to the moderator?

Does he/she/they/them/it keep going off topic? a hazelnut in every bite" I thought that was squirrel s***!

Shame.

Perhaps that is why yoy can't seem to get them now.

Spel chec doesnt wurk.

Like the new avatar starspirit.

Much more you.

Thanks Dancer - she's not as ruff as me.

At least you can pick up dozens of free pens in Barclays.

I wonder what TOP GEAR will get up to next series?

No will, I'm talking whole hazelnuts, not chopped, minced or partly digested.

Totally agree with the Moderator and much as I hate to admit it sometimes he is the only one on here making any sense at all.

Careful Richard, them nuts'll repeat on yer!

All this talk of chocolate with nuts in reminds me, I never did work out why they changed the name of Marathon to Snickers. Very unfortunate if you forget things in shops very easily and have to keep repeating under your breath what you came in for. Try it.

And Opal Fruits to Starburst - what was that about?

And Jif to Cif (and what the heck does "Cilitt Bang" mean? Sounds vaguely obscene!)

Rant over - now I've given you all lots more excuses to get off thread. usual.. europeanisation! They changed the names to the names used in rest of Europe.

in the case of the sweets I was told it was for the USA's benefit, and Cif / Jif was in case someone tried to squeeze white cleaning stuff on their pancakes [ def sounds like USA]

I preferred Lion bars myself, proper thick licorice and licorice root, and kali [?] made your finger go a funny colour tho

Have you ever tried the usa versions of out chocolate bars, like snickers and mars etc.. They taste really sicky like, as if they have gone off. (LOL a gone off Topic). I believe it is something to do with cows being grain fed and not grass.

Anyway, TO GET BACK ON TOPIC please, can you still actually get Topics, Not sure if you were joking or not.

P.S. Peter, please post again to show there are no hard feelings and you see the funny side. Just all a bit of banter and light heartedness to help life tick along sweetly.

I think maybe Peter has got the hump with all of us for partaking of the Michael and consistently showing a juvenile sense of humour. Hows about Mr Moderator rearranging the home page so that the various areas of interest are listed in order of poularity?

Motorhome Matters FIRST followed by Chatterbox and all the other also runs following on in rapidly diminishing order.

Well Pete - guilty as charged - and proud of it too.

I suppose it's nothing less than expected when you reach senility Richard.

 

[Guest starspirit]

And there was us thinking you were an intelligent guy Peter?

[Brian Kirby]

Peter

Whatever you're on, I want some.  But not quite so much, I think.

[Guest peter]

starspirit - 2007-03-27 9:07 PM

 

And there was us thinking you were an intelligent guy Peter?

Where did you get that impression from Richard?. :D

[DerekF]

Hi everyone.

Thanks to all that have taken the time to read and reply to my post.

There has hopefully been some progress made this week.

The dealer has once again assured me that all electric's have been fully checked, leisure battery replaced, additional fuse wired to 240v charging unit so we will be picking the MH up next week.

I'd also written to Explorer's MD after having received no reply from their customer services manager and this week I have received 2No. replies from him (CSM). I also made contact by telephone but pity to say got very liitle satisfaction from him. Explorer's stance appears to be contact your dealer that's what they are there for. Not what I would call good customer relations, but who am I to know about those things, I'm only the guy who spent 30 grand on one of their vehicles.

I probably didn't make myself very clear on my original post but we appeared to loose the 12v electric's after coming off a mains hook up and while the vehicle was being driven. If we stopped still no 12v electric's in the living area and leisure battery was shown discharged on the odd time the display would switch on. If we then reconnected to the mains all electric's then worked correctly.

Forgot to mention, when speaking to the CSM at Explorer I mentioned that we were planning another trip abroad in May, he suggested we use the vehicle for a couple of weekends in the UK before we took the trip. Although that's good advice it doesn't exactly fill me with confidence in the 2nd repair.

Once again many thanks for your replies I will keep you posted on my progress.

Best regards

Derek

 

[Dave Newell]

Derek, lets just suppose you bought a new Mercedes car from Gerard Mann (Mercedes dealers) and it went wrong. Would you contact Mercedes direct or would you go back to Gerard Mann? My money says you'd go back to Gerard Mann. So why would you expect to be able to go direct to Explorer group instead of the dealer who sold you the 'van? Your contract is with the dealer not the manufacturer!

 

D.

[Brian Kirby]

DerekF - 2007-03-31 4:43 PM .................. I probably didn't make myself very clear on my original post but we appeared to loose the 12v electric's after coming off a mains hook up and while the vehicle was being driven.

Derek. Sorry to dissect your prose.  However, it is still not clear how you knew the 12V electrics had failed.  What was it that wouldn't work while the vehicle was being driven?

If we stopped still no 12v electric's in the living area...

But was this with the vehicle merely stationary, or with the vehicle stationary and the engine stopped (i.e. ignition off)?

and leisure battery was shown discharged on the odd time the display would switch on.

So there is/was a fault on the display as well?  Would the display not energise and you had no indications at all, or was it just the battery condition indications that wouldn't work?

If we then reconnected to the mains all electric's then worked correctly. ............

I hope it has now been fixed, but just in case it hasn't (always the optimist!), if you get a repeat can you try to analyse the details a bit more, it might to help someone get a bit closer to the answer. 

Superficially, it sounds to me a bit as though your habitation battery wasn't charging from the mains charger.  That may be where the replacement fuse came in, but it isn't clear if this fuse was on the 230V side of the charger, or the 12V side.  My guess is it was the 12V side, and the mains charger unit had been supplying all your 12V power without charging the battery. 

With the main 12V fuse blown your battery would have shown zero power (no circuit), while with mains connected, the charger would probably have looked fairly reassuring because it would have (presumably) been registering your domestic load.  It is possible the charge circuit from the engine might have been fused elsewhere (or un-fused), and so not been connected via the "blown" fuse.  That would re-charge the battery while you were driving, so the battery may actually have remained charged at all times with the "blown" fuse protecting it from discharge.  If that proves the case, you battery shouldn't have been run flat, and so shouldn't have suffered any damage.

Now, lets see if the clever ones want to play!

[DerekF]

Hi Brian

 

Thanks again for your reply.

 

“When the problem first appeared we had made a roadside stop with the engine switched off. The display panel would not activate and no 12v equipment would activate ie lights, hob ignition, fridge ignition etc. Called dealer from roadside who then asked me to carry out various checks and discovered the main fuse located in wardrobe had blown. If it helps it is the fuse in the black capsule, (sorry for being non technical but my background is structural engineering and not electrical engineering). After that we only had 12v electric’s if connected to mains hook up.

On the second occasion whilst driving along the living quarters alarm situated in the wardrobe began to bleep, the fridge made strange noises and the 12v electrical display began flashing. I thought it wiser to stop and turn the panel off as well as the fridge. Again after that happening we only had 12v electric’s when connected to mains.”

 

Hopefully without going into war and peace this is a fair description of the events with the electrical fault to our van.

 

Hi Dave

 

Thanks for your comments.

 

I’m the first to agree that I go back to the dealer with any problems and this I have done and I’m sure they are as concerned about the vehicle as I am and they just want me to be able to go away happy.

I contacted the manufacturer in the hope that they could somehow restore my faith in the product that I have bought which in fairness to the dealer they only sold on. If this statement is incorrect please forgive me, as I have no involvement in the motor trade apart from buying from them.

I have read in some of the readers letters to the motorhome magazines where other people have contacted the various manufactures in the hope of getting their problems resolved. In all honesty I was hoping that they would have some way of carrying out a diagnostic check similar to the checks they carry out when the vehicle is built.

 

I won’t go on but in the past I have had cause to contact both Yamaha and Suzuki with my concerns, in both case they couldn’t do enough to resolve the situation.

 

I’d also like to make the point that I’m not looking for, or have ever suggested I want compensating, all I want is a vehicle we can use as it is intended. Our first two outings have been a bit of a let down – hopefully now this problem will be behind us and we can look forward to enjoying our new (and first) motorhome.

 

Best regards

Derek

[Clive]

It has been known in these circumstances to fit two "technology by-pass" switches alongside the computer control panel. Switch 1 by-passes the computer controlled main leisure power ON OFF relay, Switch 2 by-passes the main water pump computer controlled relay.

 

Now, it the CPU goes belly up for whatever reason only the display goes out, but everything important in the van can still be made to work.

 

Food for thought?

C.