Non supply of Motorhome

[fjmike]

Anyone know what my rights are regarding non supply of ordered motorhome. Have paid deposit for motorhome and now am told that the model ordered is not being made anymore. This is despite the fact that the model is still listed on the Uk, French, German and Italian websites.

Have been offered a L/H/D lower/older spec model that is not acceptable at the price offered. The dealer is prepared to refund deposit, but I am thinking that he should be doing a bit more than that. What does evryone else think/know

 

I haven't named names as I did not want the post to taken off before I had some replies but it wouldn't hurt to say the dealer is the main importer for this brand so should have known what the situation was when they took my deposit

[michele]

Dont help me ? What is it :-(

[Way2Go]

I'm sure you'll get some timely sage advice but if they can't get one and offer you your deposit back there ain't a lot more you can do.

If they refused to return your deposit or said you must use it against another camper then that would be a different matter.

Looks like a wander around the car park again then?

Say what, Michele?

[RonB]

Mike - I am afraid that in the first instance you are going to be governed by what your contract with the dealer has to say on the subject. This is normally on the reverse of the order form, in the smallest writing possible, giving them the widest possible protection and you the minimum.

 

However, if the vehicle was already out of production when the dealer took your order, or there was a long delay before the dealer informed you of the position, then you might have some sort of a claim. Contact your Local Trading Standards office.

 

Best of luck.

[Jasper]

There's not a lot you can do if they are no longer available. It depends on how long you've been waiting but as well as the return of your deposit you could be asking the dealer for some compensation - if nothing else then you can quantify the cost of travel / phone calls and any other reasonable costs incurred in the selection and ordering process of a replacement vehicle. There is also the possibility of compensation for loss of enjoyment but it depends on how 'americanised' you want the process to get. Even better if they also supply another vehicle you would be interested in then push for a substantial discount.

 

Good luck

 

[net-traveller]

Don't know how relevant the following may be.

 

Not all models are available in all countries but it may be possible, depending on the manufacturer, to order a model not normally in the UK in a UK spec. Suggest you contact the main importer/dealer in UK and/or the manufacturer or one of the dealer in the countries which still appear to have them.

 

:-)

[Brian Kirby]

Mike

It would be worth posting the make and model of the 'van with a warning about the supply situation.  That may help others who may be in the same position as you - but haven't yet discovered that!  I can't see any reason for that to be taken off, it's a fact, not knocking criticism.

It may be that the manufacturer "pulled" the model because they only had a handful of orders for it, and it wasn't going to be economical to make.  If that is the case, it is hardly the dealers fault if he didn't know in advance.  If you really liked the 'van, have you tried sourcing one from elsewhere?  You may find a lhd one already at a dealer's in Germany or France and, if it was that unpopular, they just may do you a very good deal on it!  In any case, the odds are it would be quite a bit cheaper than you'd have paid in UK.

If that doesn't appeal, and to answer your question, I'm afraid I don't think you actually have any rights!  If you read the small print in the manufacturer's catalogue, you'll almost certainly find a blanket get out clause.  Your deposit will have been taken as a refundable deposit subject to the dealers ability to supply, and he will claim he acted in good faith. 

From what you say, it seems the dealer notified you of the cancellation of the model, which puts the onus back onto the manufacturer, with whom you had no contract.

Sadly, your best tactic will be to swallow hard, get your deposit back, ask for an extra £50 as compensation for your wasted time as a goodwill gesture, and start looking for an alternative 'van!

Anything else will just prolong the agony!

[Guest Frank Wilkinson]

What should matter is what is considered reasonable. It is fairly obvious that the dealer did not know that this model was being discontinued when he took your order and that he found out subsequently. His offer to refund your deposit is fair and puts you back in the same position that you were in before you visited him.

As a businessman it would be my practice to give you a little extra if there is another model that you like, but if there isn't another model then there is nothing more that I can do I'm afraid.

It's not only dealers, but customers who can be very unreasonable. I once had a price ticket dislodged from a shelf owing to people leaning on the window and shaking it. The ticket for a £100 camera, fell in front of a £1200 Leica and some guy came in insisting that we had to sell it to him at that price and when we refused he bullied us and threatened to sue.

Now the law is firmly on our side here and eventually, we told him to bugger off. But what kind of selfish, greedy person would insist on a retailer losing £1100 because of an accident?

[icdsun]

Frank

 

They are Customers apparently, I am happy you stood your ground with this oppurtunist parasite (probably a closet lawyer), I'm glad we are not in retail.

 

The Motorhome dealer is being reasonable I believe, he has acted in "Good Faith" in taking your order, later learning that it has been discontinued or not available, if there is a model that he can supply then the likelihood of an improved discount would probably be offered as a Thank You for understanding the situation they are in also, going down the legal route may give you a small amount of compensation but likely that the dealer will hold your deposit until it is resolved, they can then legally delay as long as possible to give you your money, if you want compensation then work out what is fair and reasonable and approach the dealer/manufacturer direct to gauge their response before taking the legal route.

 

I hope it works out for you

 

Chris

 

Chris

[Clive]

If it were an aeroplane then you would be in charge of the control lever.

[flicka]

Mike

It's a difficult one without spending substantial legal fees, which would not automatically be recovered if you were successful.

It will depend if there was any intent by the dealer to misinform you or he has made false representation - very difficult if the majority of negotiations were conducted verbally.

 

Don't forget however, it is not unreasonable to expect the Dealer to also pay you Interest on your deposit, for the period of time he has had it. (But if the Dealer offers a reasonable "goodwill" payment, expect that to be inclusive of Deposit Interest.)

 

Depending on the suitablilty of the alternative Van offered, the Dealer will have a lot more scope available to juggle his figures, if it is.

Has the Dealer reached his "final" price. I think you need to express your dissatisfaction to the top man here. Again as a matter of "goodwill", he will not (if he values his businesses' future) want a dissatisfied customer walking away and spreading discord.

BUT don't be pressured into accepting the alternative Van, unless it suits your needs.

 

 

Flicka

[Brian Kirby]

flicka - 2007-03-27 5:50 PM Mike It's a difficult one without spending substantial legal fees, which would not automatically be recovered if you were successful. It will depend if there was any intent by the dealer to misinform you or he has made false representation - very difficult if the majority of negotiations were conducted verbally. Don't forget however, it is not unreasonable to expect the Dealer to also pay you Interest on your deposit, for the period of time he has had it. (But if the Dealer offers a reasonable "goodwill" payment, expect that to be inclusive of Deposit Interest.) Depending on the suitablilty of the alternative Van offered, the Dealer will have a lot more scope available to juggle his figures, if it is. Has the Dealer reached his "final" price. I think you need to express your dissatisfaction to the top man here. Again as a matter of "goodwill", he will not (if he values his businesses' future) want a dissatisfied customer walking away and spreading discord. BUT don't be pressured into accepting the alternative Van, unless it suits your needs. Flicka

I'm sorry, but I think this is misleading.  Just carefully read the back of the order you signed.  They're almost all standard, and I'm afraid flicka's indulging in a bit of wishful thinking.  Unless someone has seriously goofed at the dealership, the order conditions will simply exclude matters outside the control of the dealer - like the manufacturer changing his mind about what he wants to make.

Just get your money back, and look for a different van.  Anything else is liable to prove a fool's errand!

[Mel B]

Just a thought, have you actually had firm confirmation that the van is definitely not being produced any more? Not just by the dealership?

 

Call me sceptical but I wonder if it's because you were originally getting too good a deal, especially since the alternative offer is not as good. Might be worth doing a bit of detective work first before you go any further but do it quickly. Hopefully it's all above board though and you can come to some amical arrangement with them.

 

Let us know.

[Guest peter]

Hi, talking about off topic, How is the weather down your way, been brilliant up here the last week so planning the next trip.

Can you still get Topics? I know they're not in the Celebrations selection any more. Perhaps people have gone off Topics.

A hazelnut in every bite init!

I couldn't agree more. By the way everyone, what do you think about this bloke at Barclays who's earned 22 mil?

He a fortuitous codger I reckon - severe case of right place right time.

Glad I don't bank with Barclay's or I might be disposed to dispose of them too.

I've started many topics and watched as the conversation wanders off and on and off again but due to my enduring capacity for tolerance I would never dream of grumbling.

By the way interesting programs on death on TV this evening - any comments anyone?

Why a message to the moderator?

Does he/she/they/them/it keep going off topic? a hazelnut in every bite" I thought that was squirrel s***!

Shame.

Perhaps that is why yoy can't seem to get them now.

Spel chec doesnt wurk.

Like the new avatar starspirit.

Much more you.

Thanks Dancer - she's not as ruff as me.

At least you can pick up dozens of free pens in Barclays.

I wonder what TOP GEAR will get up to next series?

No will, I'm talking whole hazelnuts, not chopped, minced or partly digested.

Totally agree with the Moderator and much as I hate to admit it sometimes he is the only one on here making any sense at all.

Careful Richard, them nuts'll repeat on yer!

All this talk of chocolate with nuts in reminds me, I never did work out why they changed the name of Marathon to Snickers. Very unfortunate if you forget things in shops very easily and have to keep repeating under your breath what you came in for. Try it.

And Opal Fruits to Starburst - what was that about?

And Jif to Cif (and what the heck does "Cilitt Bang" mean? Sounds vaguely obscene!)

Rant over - now I've given you all lots more excuses to get off thread. usual.. europeanisation! They changed the names to the names used in rest of Europe.

in the case of the sweets I was told it was for the USA's benefit, and Cif / Jif was in case someone tried to squeeze white cleaning stuff on their pancakes [ def sounds like USA]

I preferred Lion bars myself, proper thick licorice and licorice root, and kali [?] made your finger go a funny colour tho

Have you ever tried the usa versions of out chocolate bars, like snickers and mars etc.. They taste really sicky like, as if they have gone off. (LOL a gone off Topic). I believe it is something to do with cows being grain fed and not grass.

Anyway, TO GET BACK ON TOPIC please, can you still actually get Topics, Not sure if you were joking or not.

P.S. Peter, please post again to show there are no hard feelings and you see the funny side. Just all a bit of banter and light heartedness to help life tick along sweetly.

I think maybe Peter has got the hump with all of us for partaking of the Michael and consistently showing a juvenile sense of humour. Hows about Mr Moderator rearranging the home page so that the various areas of interest are listed in order of poularity?

Motorhome Matters FIRST followed by Chatterbox and all the other also runs following on in rapidly diminishing order.

Well Pete - guilty as charged - and proud of it too.

I suppose it's nothing less than expected when you reach senility Richard.

 

[Guest starspirit]

Well done Peter - posting the same message on so many different threads will certainly please the Moderator I'm sure, and by following your own suggestion of keeping on topic you are setting such a good example to the rest of us wandering reprobates.

[Guest Frank Wilkinson]

Don't get upset Peter, you're one of the good guys on this site and we're only having a bit of fun!

[Clive]

If it takes a week to walk a fortnight, how many apples in a bunch of Grapes?

 

Grab back your cash and run sounds like sound advice. Anything else is a bonus.

 

[twooks]

waddya mean 'good guys' . .. .. .. ...

whaddabout the girls .. .. .. ..

 

B-)

[michele]

WAY 2 GO,

same as Brian ...what is it otherwise how can we help him i dont know the model obviously someothers do... hope that makes sense.

[RonB]

Mike - You've been given some good and some not so good advise above. I repeat, ring Consumer Direct (08454 040506) and they will connect you to your local trading standards office. They in turn will listen to your problem and then give you instant, and professional, first advice.

[fjmike]

Thanks for all the advise and comments. Yesterday I made a phonecall to Steve Hayes,which was worth doing as he explained that most of what has happened was beyond their control so I'm not so paranoid about that side now. I expressed my concerns that they were not pressing Pilote France hard enough to get the van that we wanted and he promised to have another go to see if either (a) Pilote would build a R/H/D Pilote P685FP Explorateur or (b) come to a more realistic price for the LHD lower spec van that they offered me. The P685FP Explorateur was definitely the one for us, there were no compromises at all. We had done our homework and looked at nearly every other van on the market but this one ticked all the boxes. Steve also said that this was not the only model that this had happened too and hinted that other manufacturers quite often do the same. So I don't know what to do if we do find another make/model apart from buying a stock model to ensure that we are not caught in this position again. Once again thanks to everyone for all their support and I'll let you know how things turn out

[Brian Kirby]

Mike

There should be alternatives.  Have you looked at the P675FP, P690FG and P695FG Reference models, or the P670TP or P690FG Aventura models? 

Do you know the Mooveo and Bavaria are also badge engineered Pilotes?  Couldn't find a Mooveo that corresponds, but the Bavaria R65FP looks virtually identical to the P685FPE Explorateur.

It may be that the full range isn't available in RHD form.  However, if you're prepared to settle for lhd, why not buy in France?  You'll get the UK spec by adding options from the French options list, and even with these added, you should find the van is cheaper in France.  Try this link for a dealership not too far from Calais http://www.jpgloisirs.com/.  Seclin isn't the most beautiful of places, but I visited JPG a couple of years back and they were very helpful, had quite good stock, and some of them spoke English.  If you click on "contact" it should open your e-mailer.  They are showing availability for the P685FP, so it may be worth seeing what they can do for you.

[icelander]

Oh dear does that make me - a selfish greedy oppurtunist parasite .

 

Many years ago I asked and got a book in WH Smith for £5 less - the price it was displayed at in the window.

[fjmike]

Thanks for that post Brian. Had a look at the Bavaria and the layout is similar but not quite. However had a look at the JPG link and have sent them an email asking if its the fp model as the website just lists P685. If my memory is correct on the same trading estate is Narbonne accesories and another M/H dealer. Not too far from the port either

[Guest Frank Wilkinson]

icelander - 2007-03-28 12:42 PM Oh dear does that make me - a selfish greedy oppurtunist parasite . Many years ago I asked and got a book in WH Smith for £5 less - the price it was displayed at in the window.

There's a slight difference between a book, which has had the wrong ticket placed on it by the retailer and the example that I gave where it had fallen and was no fault of my staff at all. W.H Smith in allowing you to buy the book at the lower price probably didn't actually lose money. They may not have made any but I doubt if they lost.

If a retailer accidentally puts a ticket on the wrong item, or a ticket is dislodged, the retailer has no legal requirement to sell you the product at that price. A ticket is what's known in law as 'An invitation to treat' and in no way contracts the dealer to actually sell at that price.

However, if a dealer were to regularly put the wrong prices on products as a way to entice customers he would very quickly fall foul of trading standards laws and would be fined heavily.

In my opinion, if you see a product that has accidentally been wrongly ticketed and the retailer explains this to you and immediately rectifies the error then what have you lost? You haven't been wronged in any way, you haven't lost any money and yes, if after all this you insist on him selling you the product at the wrong price then you are a greedy, opportunistic parasite.

Finally, you are selling your house, or anything else for that matter and you phone the small ads department of your local newspaper. They accidentally place the wrong price in the advertisement because you weren't clear or the line was bad. Would you then expect the law to make you sell your house for £100,000 less?

It's not just businesses that need legal protection against accidental pricing!