Help us chose our first van

[Catherine]

Hi,

 

As we approach retirement, we are trying to decide on our first van. Our only previous experience was a 70's VW camper many years ago.

 

Key requirements are three/four berths, four seatbelts, two rotating pilot seats and a double bed that does not require to be made up at night. We would like to have an oven.

 

We would prefer something around 6m in length and are drawn to the A class and low profile styles because we think they would be more stable to drive. We went to the NEC show in February and have visited various dealers. We like the quality of the Hymers, Burstners and Rapidos but are open minded about the make.

 

We envisage travelling most of the time a deux but, occasionally, with our daughter and grandchild as well. We would want to be able to carry two bikes. Our longest trips are likely to be three weeks or so and we anticipate touring extensively in Europe as well as some of the more remote areas of the British Isles. We are not likely to use it in the winter.

 

We would not be keen to go over £45k and would prefer something cheaper if possible.

 

Catherine

[Brian Kirby]

I'm assuming you are intending to buy new.  If you can find one for your budget, from what you say, you'll probably find the best compromise, when you have your daughter and grandchild with you, will be an A class with a rear double bed, or rear bunks.  Which, will be a matter of mother and child preference, but small children will grow, so the safest decision is probably bunks! 

However, you are asking quite a lot from your budget and, unless you wish to consider changing the van after relatively few years, you may find that trying to cater for your daughter and grandchild compromises your choice.  All I'm trying to say is that as the grandchild grows, the opportunities for accompanied trips will be liable to fall, to the point at which your van is used 80-90% a deux, for which a different layout might be more suitable, leaving you trailing around with quite a bit of redundant space.  Not trying to influence you one way or the other, but quite a few people have harboured similar thoughts, but then found things never quite went as first envisaged, in effect leaving them with the wrong van.  There are other possible soultions to taking them away with you, as most vans tend to have four forward facing, fully belted seats.  An alternative form of accommodation may possibly prove a better option for you, and equally acceptable to them.

You will get more for your money, and arguably more choice, if you are happy to consider buying a left hand drive van in Germany or France.  Putting the vans on right hand drive chassis does drive up the price!  As you intend touring in Europe, lhd can make life a bit easier, but because the driving position is fairly high neither rhd in Europe, nor lhd in UK, present too much of a problem.

Last comment, Europe is quite big, and I don't think you'll get through much of it in three weeks.  At least if you do, you'll hardly ever stop driving!  You really need to plan on 6 weeks or more if you want to get to Portugal, Southern Italy or Greece, let alone all those Eastern European states.  This last point may slightly alter your minds about the kind of van you think will be most suitable.

[Tony Jones]

Brian Kirby - 2007-03-29 7:13 PM

 

.... unless you wish to consider changing the van after relatively few years, you may find that trying to cater for your daughter and grandchild compromises your choice.  All I'm trying to say is that as the grandchild grows, the opportunities for accompanied trips will be liable to fall, to the point at which your van is used 80-90% a deux, for which a different layout might be more suitable, leaving you trailing around with quite a bit of redundant space.  Not trying to influence you one way or the other, but quite a few people have harboured similar thoughts, but then found things never quite went as first envisaged, in effect leaving them with the wrong van.  There are other possible soultions to taking them away with you, as most vans tend to have four forward facing, fully belted seats.  An alternative form of accommodation may possibly prove a better option for you, and equally acceptable to them.

 

I'm afraid Brian's right on this. So your choices seem to be:

1) go for something that'll accommodate all of you, and accept that sometimes (and increasingly over the years) you'll be driving something bigger than you need.

2) as (1) but plan to "downsize" when the time comes

3) be thoroughly selfish (like most of us! After all, the whole point is "spending the kids' inheritance" isn't it?) and get the van that suits the two of you, compromising only by insisting on enough passenger seats, and space for a tent!!!

 

But don't be discouraged!! What most of us do is spend weeks carefully considering and listing exactly what features we must have, would like, or can't stand, then fall in love-at-first-sight with a van that's exactly NOT what we thought we were looking for, buy it, and live happily ever after.

 

Last comment, Europe is quite big, and I don't think you'll get through much of it in three weeks.  At least if you do, you'll hardly ever stop driving!  You really need to plan on 6 weeks or more if you want to get to Portugal, Southern Italy or Greece, let alone all those Eastern European states.  This last point may slightly alter your minds about the kind of van you think will be most suitable.

 

Again, I agree. The furthest we've comfortable gone in 3 weeks is Alicante or Florence, and (since we often only travel for half a day at a time) even those distances involved more "travel" days than stationary ones!

But again, don't be put off - the beauty of our way of travelling is that you make it up as you go along. So plan an ambitious trip but be ready to change your plan if you decide you need to (or if you simply discover somewhere 50 miles from the Channel port where you want to stay for 3 weeks!)

 

Enjoy yourselves!

 

Tony

 

(PS: I posted a welcome to you on "Chatterbox" earlier this evening, but I wouldn't advise going to look, as it's one of those forums you end up spending hours on if you're not careful!)

 

[JohnP]

I would suggest a visit to the Peterborough Show in April. Many motorhomes and dealers present.

Draw up a detailed written list of what features you want, have to carry/store and what your priorities are.

Things like weight, size, carrying capacity are important and it is easy to overload some vans. Will it fit on the drive etc. Will it have sufficient capacity for four people with their goods and chattles and not exceed the maximum weight for the vehicle.

You don't have to buy there but it will give you a good idea of what is available both new and secondhand within your budget.

If you see something you really like spend some time thinking how you will live and sleep in it. Make up the beds. Most, if not all vans are a compromise in some way.

Happy hunting!

[Usinmyknaus]

Catherine,

 

Welcome and as a newbie myself, I can assure you you have found a very useful forum. Suggest you use the search facility to look up the thread "New member...any info" started by Jackie on 5th March which received a few posts which may be of interest.

 

If during your hunt for a van you want specific answers on particular aspects of it there are people on here who are very knowledgeable (not me). For example I asked a question on the lack of a spare wheel on many new vans and got some very useful answers which helped to put my mind at rest.

 

Good luck with the search.

 

Bob

[colin]

Everybody is different so it is difficult to recomend any particlair layout, we hired vans in Oz, NZ and US before buying a van that I converted to a layout I liked.

[Mel B]

First observation is that as you may only occasionally have your daughter and grandchild with you go for a layout that suits you, not them, with the only exception that you still have 2 safe travel seats in the rear. Friends of ours did what you are intending and swapped their lovely van for a larger one with twin dinette up front and separate rear lounge, upshot, it's way too big for them normally and the kids hardly go out with them so having a big van is actually compromising what they want to do most of the time.

 

A short 'A' class where you can use the drop-down bed and make up the downstairs seating for 'guests' when necessary would seem one good option as this gives you a shorter length than say a low profile with lounge area and a fixed rear bed, plus you have the advantage of having more sprawling space normally. If you can get one with a small rear garage, say with a single bunk above it, then you could store your bikes in there and when the need arose you could use the bunks as ... bunks! From memory Hymer used to do an 'A' class called the B Classic 504 which was 5.99m, seating & table up front, kitchen opposite, bathroom and in the centre facing each other and a single rear bunk with garage underneath. It was officially a 3 berth but had 4 belted seats, however, a 4th berth could be made from the front seating for a child without difficulty.

 

Have a look at the following for a floor plan.

 

http://www.bonometti.it/detschedanuovo.php/marca=HYMER/modello=B%20504%20SL/motore=FIAT_Ducato%202.3%20130cv/id=1770

 

This is just one suggestion, there are many more vans out there but you might have to compromise on length a little.

 

Happy hunting.

 

 

[ned]

Hi.

 

I agree with most of the points made above. However, when we started out MC we got a Autosleepers Amethyst. Great van, great layout but not enough storage, water capacity and it was'nt winterised. The finish on the monocoque was superb and the ford drove like a dream. Its main drawback was draughts. We drove miles all wrapped up in woollies, blankets and all sorts. We have been through 5 vans since then with different layouts. All of them we thought would be perfect but we found that they were all a compromise to one degree or another. The last one was an Autotrail 660 with rear bed. I retired last year and we went off on a 5 month tour of the continent. The van was brilliant but, there will always be a but! the rear bed just made the van too long for all sorts of reasons and the watertank only held 80 litres which mean't with showers we were refilling every two days. In the end it had to go so I could park one on the drive in stead of paying the local farmer another £500 for storage. Result we have just got a Hymer Classic 544 with the old fashioned dinette. swivel front seats, dropdown bed, stacks of storage, 120litre tank and really cosy(back to the Amythist layout). We got it second hand from Hymer UK at only a year old. It's perfect. We have just come back from 8 weeks skiing in France. Only on Aires and temperatures down to - 14 at night. Short days, long nights. We never had one disagreement and lived well. My recommendation would be to go for second hand (loose the VAT and a bit extra) get the additions which can be expensive ( awning, tv aerial, bike rack, towbar and if your lucky sat nav and sat dish plus second battery) all in your price. You have a good choice of the last of the older ducatos with maybe 7000 -10000 miles so the engine is just run in and you have loads of warrenty left on both the transmission and the bodywork. Also go for a reputable dealer. Personally I wouldn't buy anything but a HYmer, defleffts or Burstner and then only an A class. Try a HYmer classic 544 it is only just 6 meters has 6 seat belts and comfortably accomodates 4/5. You should get one for £37000 or a little less.

 

ned

[Clive]

Autotrail Scout fits your spec apart from the length, its a tad longer!

Best for reliability on a Merc but cheapest on a Fiat .

That,s what we have and have had for nearly 10 years.

We started MHing in 1972 with a Dormobile, our biggest was a self build on a Bedford Coach and the Scout is a downsize for us. Next van will probably be a little bigger as we like to take so many toys with us!

 

Have fun

 

C.

 

 

 

[RonB]

Further to Clive's post above. I think you will find that vehicle width is far more of a problem than its length, other than on motorways and very small pitches - and A Class vehicles are wide.

 

You should also be careful about the published width figures of A Class vehicles. Often these are given excluding the wing mirrors (don't ask me why!) which means the width can be understated by up to a foot. Again this idiosyncrasy is sometimes not mentioned in the brochure - Burstner for one are guilty of this.

[Catherine]

Thanks to everyone for their helpful advice. It is obvious from reading the replies and other posts that we will have to reach a compromise, particularly on overall length. We have given ourselves until the NEC show in the Autumn to make a decision and we will have snooped around a few dealers before then.

 

We would not be adverse to buying second hand, although the savings compared to new seem much less than with a car. Of course, this is a good point when you come to sell. We have read a lot about the different chassis that are commonly used and the benefits of the new Fiat Ducato over the previous model. This is a further encouragement to buy new but, as newcomers to the scene, would we notice any significant differences between base vehicles?

 

Brian suggested buying LHD. I take the point about value for money, but we live in Scotland and would expect to drive in the UK quite a bit.

 

Ned recommended Hymer, Dethleffs or Burstner. We have already looked at a few Hymers and Burstners and seen a Hymer A class that is 5.99m with three berths (currently the B504CL). Also, the smallest Dethleffs Globebus A class seems to be a good size. However, we have never seen this brand at a dealer. Are their any distributors in the North of England?

 

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

Dethleffs UK importer is Lowdham Leisureworld at Nottingham.  However, don't just turn up expecting to be able to see a Globebus A class.  Phone first!!  Oh, and there are three versions of the Globebus, so you'll need to check which they're talking about as well.  However, the basic layouts are the same as for the coachbuilt Globebus, with the exception of the drop down bed, so you should get a good idea if they have the appropriate version of one of those in their showroom.

However, Nottingham is quite a way from any part of Scotland, and trips back to remote dealers of faults develop can be very irritating so, maybe something closer to home?

[Derek Uzzell]

Catherine:

 

If you need 4 seat-belts then the Dethleffs Globebus 3 A-Class (with rear U-lounge) drops out of the frame. Globebus 1 or 2 would be OK belt-wise and both offer double beds front and rear, plus an occasional child's bed constructed from the dinette seating. The Globebus 1 garage should accommodate 2 bikes and a gas oven is on the list of options.

 

I inspected a Globebus 1 in France recently and, although I thought the frontal appearance 'unhappy' and was a mite concerned about the low ground clearance beneath the front apron, I concluded that I wouldn't mind one. (And I am SO picky!!) According to MMM the UK price is well within your budget, but there's a long options list and you'd need to check exactly what the standard UK specification includes.

[rwhites1]

try dethleffs globevan 1 made up back double bed, dinette makes into small 5ft 3 bed.4 seat belts,swivel seats 19ft 6 long,7ft 1 wide, oven,large garage under back bed payload 780kg.shower toilet,wardrobe.ford 2.2 TDCi

 

[Brian Kirby]

rwhites1 - 2007-04-01 10:57 PM try dethleffs globevan 1 made up back double bed, dinette makes into small 5ft 3 bed.4 seat belts,swivel seats 19ft 6 long,7ft 1 wide, oven,large garage under back bed payload 780kg.shower toilet,wardrobe.ford 2.2 TDCi

But I think you'll find the oven is an option, not standard spec.

[Brian Kirby]

Forgot to say: go to this site http://www.go-motorhoming.co.uk/index.htm and buy the book called Go Motorhoming Europe.  It will answer more questions than you've yet thought of, and will give invaluable assistance in choosing your motorhome and working out what you need it to do for you.  Could save you serious money.  Don't leave home without it - especially if you're leaving to visit a motorhome dealer!

[rwhites1]

oven is standard UK spec got one on order end of april

Globevan 1 had a good test in caravan club mag this months

[Derek Uzzell]

For Catherine, the problem with Globevan, or any of the current rash of around 6m-long low-profile designs, will be its inability to sleep 4 (which is where Globebus, with its over-cab bed, scores).

 

For what it's worth, the Caravan Club Magazine's Globevan test-report contains inaccuracies. Globevan's length is 5.96m (not 5.29m), ALDE heating is not available on this model, and the Duomatic option has nothing to do with the vehicle's gearshift. In fact "Duomatic" relates to Truma's automatic gas-bottle switch-over system! The cab seats are standard high-back Transit seats (with fitted covers) of the type Ford has used for several years. Nothing greatly wrong with the seats (except vertical adjustment is inadequate) - they just aren't "by Dethleffs".

[rwhites1]

You can get Alde heating on globevan 1 luxus model also you can have the adjustable dinnette seats which or an extra

[Catherine]

Brian,

 

Thanks. I have ordered the book today.

 

Thanks also to other contributors. We are planning a few trips south to visit some of the dealers.

[Derek Uzzell]

rvwhites1:

 

I stand corrected on the ALDE option. I based my statement on Dethleffs's 2007 Continental (Holland/France/Italy/Spain) brochure that shows ALDE heating as being available on the whole Fortero range except for Globevan models. In my brochure the ALDE system isn't included in the normal Fortero Luxe list of add-ons, but does appear as a 'winter comfort pack'. This pack is said to come in ALDE or TRUMA versions, the former being an option on all Forteros excluding Globevans and the latter on all Forteros including Globevans. There's also (apparently) a Luxe version of both winter packs that adds a Webasto diesel-fuelled heater, heated floor, bigger battery, etc.

 

Presumably the UK brochure differs?