Tyres

[Bazhornet]

Hi,

This my 1st time on this forum, although I have enjoyed reading the input of others for some time. As a result, I'm hoping someone can offer some advice re replacement tyres for my m/h. It currently has Michelin XC Camping tyres, but I think it's time they were changed as I suspect they were new on the vehicle, which is coming up 8 years old and they are starting to deteriorate (slight cracks on side walls) and I object to paying upwards of £80 per tyre for replacements (am I being tight?). Can anyone recommend other makes of tyres that are suitable? I average circa 5k miles each year, the 'van is under 3500kg and - naturally - spends a fair amount of time stood still.

Thanks in advance

Baz

 

[Mike Chapman]

Hello Baz,

 

Welcome to the Forum.

 

If you do a search on this forum with the Search Argument as Michelin Tyres and the Date Limit as one year it will find countless threads that may answer your question and give all sorts of tyre advice. If you have any further questions please raise them and I am sure we will be happy to answer them.

 

Just one main point, with tyres at 8 years old and signs of cracking on the sidewall you really do need to get the matter resolved quickly.

 

Michelin XC Camping tyres will probably cost you well in excess of £80 per tyre fitted more like £110 each (Times 5?). There are many makes of perfectly good tyres at a much lower price but the "Fair amount of time stood still" may determine that special Motor Caravan tyres would be best as they are designed to cope with this.

 

Regards,

 

Mike.

[Brian Kirby]

Baz

You'll also need to give the size of your tyres to be sure.  Diameter and width will be necessary.  Mike is right, you'll need to change the spare as well at that age.  It'll look fine, but it will just be unsafe to use due to deterioration of the carcass.

In principle, you should be able to find a Michelin Agilis with nominally similar load carrying characteristics to the XC Campings.  The other alternative often quoted is Continental Vanco.  There are now, I believe, also a couple of alternative "Camping" tyres from other makers.

The main point of the Michelin XC Camping is that it has greater load carrying capability than it's official rating.  According to Michelin this was because so many people consistently overload motorhomes they developed a tyre to cope!

Other tyres, generally, don't have that extra margin but, if you are scrupulous over loading and check your laden weight on a weighbridge, you won't overload and so won't need the margin.  The alternative tyres, with their slightly softer running and, I think, better grip, then become reasonably practical considerations.

[Guest starspirit]

I am not known for spending more than I have to on anything but when it comes to the four small patched of rubber that are my holiday home's only contact with the floor I do not cut corners. I have found Michelin Camping to give the best ride of all tyres and as a premium product I would buy nothing else - until someone betters them - or unless I was going to change vans in the next year or so!

Same with brakes steering and suspension - genuine makers parts only - no chances taken.

[Derek Uzzell]

Starspirit:

 

As far as quality of ride is concerned I'd be astonished if anyone could notice a difference in ride between (say) a motorhome fitted with Michelin XC Camping tyres inflated to suitable pressures and the same motorhome fitted with equivalent tyres from a different manufacturer (eg. Continental VancoCamper) using similar pressures.

 

As far as I'm aware the only independent test involving XC Camping was carried out by Pro Mobil magazine some years back. A motorhome was fitted with 16" versions of the Michelin product and with same-size 10-ply rated tyres from several other makers. The Michelins proved unimpressive, particularly in wet conditions.

[Bazhornet]

Thanks for the advice guys. I did trawl through previous threads back into last year as I guessed it wouldn't be a new topic. I couldn't find anything, but was unaware of the search facility, which I will try now.

[Derek Uzzell]

Bazhornet:

 

This forum's Search facility is not only well-disguised but also something of a dog. If you go back to the forum 'home-page' there's a guide to it in the Announcements part of the General Chat section. If you use keywords = "tyre xc camping" (omitting the quotes) and Date limit = All posts then you should get plenty of useful reading.

[icdsun]

Richard

 

I take your point on original equipment, however a lot of brake pads and other consumable parts are made by the supplier who then packages the same product in various packaging to suit their clients, but you rightly point out tyres are different, personally I feel that skimping on tyres is fools economy, I would not run tyres on any vehicle if they were 4 years old or more, even replacing all 5 at £115 each is a pint a week so hardly breaking the bank.

 

Life is too valuable and can be regrettably short if cheap tyres fail.

 

Chris

[Dancer]

Hi Bazhornet.

 

Welcome to the madhouse.

 

Regarding tyres, don't just get 'same size' tyres, make sure your load ratings are right for the weight of your van.

 

You need the individual axle load limits, on the chassis plate, ie: axle 1, axle 2 etc. divide by two, or four for a twin wheel axle. You then have the maximum, non-overloaded, limit for each tyre.

 

Go onto a tyre site on the web, type in your requirements regarding sizes and follow down to the loadings section to get the optimum rating for the tyre.

 

Good practice is to go up a couple of ratings from your permitted maximum to be on the safe side.

 

Don't assume that a tyre fitting site will know the difference in load ratings, some will, the majority will not. They will sell you round black things.

[Guest starspirit]

Derek Uzzell - 2007-04-02 10:12 PM

 

Starspirit:

 

As far as quality of ride is concerned I'd be astonished if anyone could notice a difference in ride between (say) a motorhome fitted with Michelin XC Camping tyres inflated to suitable pressures and the same motorhome fitted with equivalent tyres from a different manufacturer (eg. Continental VancoCamper) using similar pressures.

 

As far as I'm aware the only independent test involving XC Camping was carried out by Pro Mobil magazine some years back. A motorhome was fitted with 16" versions of the Michelin product and with same-size 10-ply rated tyres from several other makers. The Michelins proved unimpressive, particularly in wet conditions.

 

 

Derek - having driven two very similar new A/S Symbol vans a few years back the one with XC Camping did ride better and quieter than the other, and even the salesman noticed. Unfortunately anno domini means that I can't remember what make the 'other' tyres were (I don't know which tyre firms Sevel use) although that was the van that I bought it being cheaper due to being previous years upholstery. I later it swapped for a Nuevo which came on XC Camping and once again I did notice a quieter ride than with my Symbol, but that was not like for like. However until such time that I get to do another back to back test I will remain a devotee of XC Camping tyres whatever they cost. Each to his own eh?

[Steve OReilly]

Below is a quote from another thread - I hadn't reached this one or I'd have put it here!

 

"My front tyres were almost down to the wear bars after 42,000 miles - good enough for the MOT though - and since they are now five years old I took the opportunity to replace all five. I didn't want to replace with Michelin X Camping tyres because I want to see if there are noise and ride advantages in using more modern van tyres. The ability to overload Michelin X Camping tyres is not of interest to me as I don't overload the motorhome. The new tyres are Firestone Vanhawk about which I know nothing. Any suggestions for appropriate tyre pressures if different from Michelins recommendations for theirs?"

 

Steve

 

[Derek Uzzell]

Steve:

 

I'm pretty sure your Starquest's XC Camping tyres would have been 215/70 R15C 109Q specification. Having Google searched, I see that there's a 215/70 R15C 109R Firestone Vanhawk pattern and I'm guessing you've done the obvious and switched to this.

 

Assuming that the inflation pressures you used for the XC Camping tyres were no higher than 65psi and that you were satisfied with the road behaviour that resulted, then using the same pressures with the Firestone tyres should be OK. Having said that (as Brian suggested on the other thread), it would still be worth confirming this with the manufacturer if you can.

 

[Ranger]

Have used Kumho for years with no problems, VW use 200000 Kumho tyres per year so they must be OK. Just changed my 'van it came with Kumho on front and Good Year on the back, the only obvious difference is the very reasonable price of the Kumho tyres. What I think is a good indication of tyre build quality is the balancing. It is very rare that a Kumho needs balancing weights when fitted to a motor home or truck.

[Steve OReilly]

Derek

 

Thanks for your observations. I'm sorry for the delay in acknowledging but I've been away. You're right about the tyre models and sizes and I've inflated the new ones to the recommended Michelin pressures of 59/65 psi.

 

I note that the maximum pressure of the Firestones is 65 psi and suspect the Michelin XC maximum of 80 psi may be to cater for significant overloading. I will drop the pressures by 5 psi and monitor the result - perhaps repeating the process if the results suggest doing so.

 

Incidentally, I contacted Firestone by e-mail for a pressure recommendation and have had no reply. Perhaps they use the same customer relations policies as Peugeot who are unwilling to divulge the mileage/age for replacing the cam-belt?

 

Steve

[Ivys]

I have a 1992 Hymer B654 on a Fiat Ducato chassis.

My current tyres are 195/75/16 with a load rating of 107, and having looked around fairly extensively it would appear that the common load rating for this is 107 which is 975Kg per wheel. To increase my "safety margin" I was thinking of looking at a higher rating (possibly a 110). These however seem to be available only on 205's and 215's (i.e. 205/75/16 or 215/75/16).

 

So my question is:

Can 205's or 215's be used on a rim that currently has 195's (...in general - I know it might be an idea to actually measure the rim)?

Or...is it feasible to change the rims so the wider tyres can be used?

 

TIA

Roger

[Brian Kirby]

Roger

Re larger tyres on the same rim, you probably can but you'll probably also need to change the tyre's aspect ratio from the current /75/ since the wider tyre will also have a larger rolling diameter which, in turn, will affect speedometer accuracy.  You'll need your tyre dealer to advise on the tyre sections that may be acceptable.  Usually those originally fitted are the "first preference" fit for the rim.  Also, be aware that a wider tyre may foul brake lines or wings when on full lock.

Have you checked what your axle ratings are?  If it is over 1,900Kg, your tyres are almost certainly the wrong fit, and may have been changed at some time before.

However, if the axle is rated at 1,900Kg, you shouldn't need to uprate the tyres from the 107s you presently have, since their combined capacity already exceeds that of the axle by 50Kg. 

If concerned whether the tyres have a sufficient margin for inadvertent overloading, say from heavy cambers throwing more load onto the nearside, your simplest remedy will probably be to stick to the 195/75/16/107 size, but to fit Michelin XC Campings, since these are already "down rated" by Michelin for exactly this reason. 

In effect, according the Michelin, they are tyres with a (unstated) rating exceeding that stamped into the sidewall, precisely to give the kind of safety cushion you seem to be after.  They were developed by Michelin specifically for motorhome use.  Something to do with our neighbours across the ditch habitually overloading their 'vans!

[g4oip]

On my Iveco I spoke to lot of commercial guys and they rate Federals and have a set fitted but the more open tread is probably the one most commonly used by commercials . I find them better grip than Agilis which it came with and less schok transmitting.

Alec

[Rowan Lee]

Bazhornet,

 

We had the same problem, we bought the van only two years old but the sidewalls were beginning to craze so we changed them all. Couldn't get replacement Michelin XC Campings though, but did find Pirelli Camping tyres through ATS. Seem to be very good, and we found their customer services excellent when we asked for tyre pressure advice.

[Ivys]

Brian, thanks for the sound advice.

 

I am still trying to find out our axle ratings from hymer. The MH is supposed to have been re-plated by Hymer to 3500Kg, so I suppose that means about 1900Kg for the rear axle. As you suggested, I am concerned about safety margin. I can get Michelin XC Campings for £80 each (fitted and balanced) but am concerned about road-holding and braking in the wet. Someone elase suggested that there is a 400Kg safety margin anyway, and we are well under that.

 

We are in fact currently designing a trailer to be used exclusively for our MH. On it we plan to load the bikes, BBQ, extra water, gazebo, etc.

In short - heavy things that make life easier for the six of us. We are very close to the limit and sometimes a bit over - hence the plans for a trailer. This will mean that we can reduce the weight in the MH.

 

Roger

 

[Brian Kirby]

Roger

The only plate that will have validity, if you are stopped/checked is that actually on the vehicle.

Mostly, there is one somewhere under the bonnet, provided by the chassis manufacturer (Fiat, or w.h.y.) and another on the conversion body, by Hymer.  I think it may be on the side of the conversion bodywork, near the habitation door.  Both should agree, and should give the max laden weights for the vehicle as a whole, and for each individual axle, followed by the permissible gross train weight.  Have a look in the handbooks for locations.  Check the gross train weight, and your driving licence categories, though, because they will be relevant for your trailer.