Gaslow bottles

[Accipiter Nisus]

In light of Calor's difficulty with supplying refills of 6kg propane, I've once again been looking at buying a refillable bottle. There is a local outlet who will sell me a 6kg Gaslow bottle, but I don't want to fit a filler pipe to run from the bottle to an outside filler because it seems an unnessarry expense when I can fill it directly in the locker. As far as I know it is perfectly legal to fill up in this way.

 

Looking at a picture on Gaslow's site it appears the outlet has a male thread and I would need a converter to a POL tail also I would need a converter to go on the inlet to take a UK bayonet to fill the bottle.

 

Does anyone here use Gaslow in this way and know if these fittings a readily avalable and where I might get them.

[weldted]

Contact Autogas 2000 very helpful. If you are going to travel in Europe you may encounter problems when filling the lpg tank if you have to open your locker to do so. Not everywhere but will happen when you need it most. One of the reasons is because some people have been filling an ordinary bottle and there is no 80% shut off on them, this has resulted in a couple of fires so caution is advised. You will probably hear (O we have filled ours loads of times with no problem, but I opened my gas locker to get my French adaptor and the attendant would not turn the pump on until he had seen that it was a tank not an ordinary bottle.

[Robinhood]

A good site to check out your requirements and buy is:

 

www.gasit.co.uk

 

(which happens to be down as I type, but was working this morning!)

[Accipiter Nisus]

Thanks. I looked at Gaslow as there's one available locally. I believe "Gas It" have something of a supply problem with their bottles. I rembered that I have an adaptor which is 21.8 mm to POL which I originally got for an old 4.5 kg blue Calor butane bottle and wonder if this will fit the Gaslow outlet. I did phone Autogas and the do sell direct fill adaptors.

 

Before I go ahead, which I'm minded to do, has anyone found resistance from garages to directly filling these bottles in the van's gas locker?

 

 

[Robinhood]

I wasn't thinking about the bottles (since you had already said you could source them) I was thinking more of the pigtails, adapters, filling points and brackets etc. (which should be interchangeable with a Gaslow bottle).

 

AFAIR, Gaslow bottles (and the others) are a 21.8LH output, so your adapter should work.

 

I think you'd be more likely to get questioned over the use of a direct fill adapter, rather than an in-locker "remote" fill point, which is in itself more likely to be questioned than an external point, but only experience would tell. (Gaslow themselves state for the direct fill "Please Note: This adapter is not accepted on the continent. This adapter can only be used on a refillable cylinder that is taken to a Gas/LPG Filling plant, not a garage forecourt".

[curdle]

I use 2 x 11kg refillable bottles. They are actually a pair of Czech manufactured CE marked cylinders with no brand name but identical to the safefill bottles. Attitudes at garages vary but Safefill have a tie up with Morrisons, so they are usually OK although there have been some complaints of occasional rejection. I have simply learned which local garages are OK and use them. France and Spain are more tricky and garages range from 'absolutely not' to being extremely helpful. Once filling up at a Shell garage at an M25 service area I was questioned by a passing police car as to whether it was legal for me to fill the cylinder, but they left me to it.

[Derek Uzzell]

Gaslow offers a 6kg-bottle "Direct Fill" kit (example advert here)

 

https://www.outdoorbits.com/gaslow-r67-6kg-direct-fill-bottle-kit-p-2597.html

 

The kit includes a bayonet-type refilling adapter to connect to a UK Autogas pump gun and an on-bottle propane regulator (that you wouldn't need). You could either use an adapter between your existing POL-ended 'pigtail' or replace the pigtail with one that has the end-connector suitable for the Gaslow bottle's outlet. Which approach would be best would depend on which make/type of pigtail your Elddis currently has.

 

You could purchase the refilling adapter separately

 

https://www.gaslowdirect.com/product/gaslow-lpg-direct-fill-adapter-01-4400/

 

but buying the complete kit may prove cheaper.

 

I've never really understood the rationale of adding a remote filling-point to a user-refillable bottle and then mounting that filling-point on a bracket inside the gas locker. You might as well simplify matters and have the filling-point on the bottle itself.

 

[Accipiter Nisus]

Thanks to everyone for their help and advice, which has been very useful. I have now bought the Gaslow 6kg bottle and my old 21.8mm to POL does indeed fit the outlet. I wanted to keep the same tail as I will, at least for the moment, carry a spare Flogas bottle as a back up. Although I've no imtention of touring outside the UK. I've also bought the necessary adaptor for direct filling from a very helpful man at Autogas which cost £22.00 including postage, so when it arrives I'll find a local garage selling gas and set it all into practice.

[Derek Uzzell]

The image I’ve attached below shows the ‘multi-valve’ fitting that’s centrally located in the top of the latest Gaslow R67 user-refillable bottles.

 

The joint between the LPG filler inlet (arrowed) and the direct-filling adaptor is metal-to-metal, and my own experience is that the adaptor needs to be screwed VERY tightly on to the filler inlet to ensure that there’s no gas leakage when the bottle is being refilled.

[curdle]

Accipiter Nisus - 2021-05-11 12:37 AM

Although I've no imtention of touring outside the UK.

Eh? Sounds quite provocative!

[Derek Uzzell]

Not sure where the “provocative” idea comes from. I believe Accipiter Nisus (AN) was merely saying that - as he does not intend to tour outside the UK - the basic direct-filling adaptor (that has the UK-norm bayonet end-fitting) he has just purchased will be sufficient for his requirements.

 

If he does go abroad and needs to refill his Gaslow bottle, he will need supplementary adaptors appropriate for the countries where the refilling will take place. This link describes the various adaptors

 

https://www.mylpg.eu/adapters/

 

The link also has a (partial) "LPG filling in countries” list, where the United Kingdom entry advises that direct filling of a gas container that has a 80% shutoff valve (eg. a Gaslow bottle) is "not allowed, but unofficially somehow tolerated”.

 

I notice that AN enquired about refillable gas cylinders 4 years ago, resulting in a fairly comprehensive response.

 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Refillable-gas-cylinders/47161/

[Accipiter Nisus]

Restricting my touring to the UK was certainly not intended to be provocative.

 

I did indeed post on the subject of refilling gas bottles back in 2017, but at that time I was exploring the idea of refilling exchangable bottles with the fittings that were readily available on sites such as eBay. Although I personally felt comfortable with doing that from a safety point of view it was and is understandable illegal and I abandoned the idea. The amount of gas I use in a season makes using refillables marginal for me, but in the light of the supply crisis with Calor and to some extent Flogas which has been going on for nearly a year, I thought now was the time to make the change. I posted this time, as four years on I wanted to know the views of others on the practicalities of direct filling a legally refillable bottle, plus a bit of advice on the fittings specifically for Gaslow. I know I can fit a kit for filling outside the van and if necessary I will, but I see no benifit in my doing that. I've never quite grown out of my 1940/50s upbringing of not spending money as a solution to everthing.

 

On a practical note Derek, I notice the picture of the gas valve you put up shows the inlet elbow at very different angle from the one I bought. On my one the inlet points across the carrying handle and I wonder if I can safely turn it back a quater of a turn without causing it to leak. It may not be a problem but Ican't be sure until I try filling up.

[Derek Uzzell]

I’m guessing that your Gaslow R67 bottle has the original multi-valve design shown on the photo attached below.

 

This is the valve fitted to my 2016 R67 11kg bottle but, in my case, it was the angled-upwards outlet that presented problems due to the shape of the roof of my Rapido’s gas-locker rather than the positioning of the LPG filler inlet. When I visited the Gaslow stand at a NEC show I noticed that the valve design had been revised with a more user-friendly ON/OFF isolation valve and a horiziontal outlet and I asked the Gaslow rep if the outlet of my bottle could be changed. He said "Yes, email us and we’ll send you a replacement” - I did, but never received a reply (which, frankly, didn’t much surprise me).

 

I considered rotating my R67 bottle’s outlet to bring it closer to the horizontal, but this would have meant loosening it and I was far from confident that it would still seal properly afterwards. I suspect these valves were fully assembled and then attached to the bottle, and the assembler wasn’t too fussy about which direction the inlet and outlet pointed to.

 

This is a potential downside of choosing the Direct Fill option as the filling adaptor obviously needs to point outwards to allow the LPG pump-gun to be connected to it - and, when the filling adaptor is pointing outwards, the orientation of the bottle’s outlet may then not be ideal in some instances.

 

Best you don’t rotate the filler inlet if you can possibly avoid it...

[Accipiter Nisus]

I've included a couple of pictures of my gas bottle. As you can see I have the more recent one with the straight inlet. I'm hoping the Autogas filler will not foul the handle, but I'll have a better idea once the direct fill attachment arrives later this week.

 

I'm not happy about distubing the valve and I've no idea what sort of fitting it is i.e. taper fitting or if it comes up to an internal shoulder. In any case I would have to go in an anticlockwise direction which would loosen it. I could remove the handle, but although it's a safe remedy it is a bit drastic.

[Accipiter Nisus]

Here's the other picture.

[paul2]

Hi

 

Gaslow advertise the upgraded yellow knob and the straight out on their website for £10 each plus postage.

 

Paul

[BruceM]

The only word of caution I’d raise is that regardless of legality it’s up to each filling station/station group whether or not to allow the direct refilling of a gas canister from an Autogas pump. If you have an external filling point you’ll appear to be like any other Autogas vehicle user and so probably go unchallenged. If you have to open your locker door to fill up you may end up with an obdurate station attendant to deal with. So imo if you want to be relatively hassle free it’s worth spending a few extra quid to fit an external filler. if you decide not to go down that route then as a minimum, if there’s a Autogas supplier locally that you hope to use I’d suggest you check with them first that they’ll allow you to self fill your bottle on their forecourt.

 

Incidentally, my external filler was professionally mounted on the gas locker door so quite easy to install.

[Accipiter Nisus]

Thanks Paul2. Is that different from the arrangement in my pictures? I couldn't find anything on Gaslows website.

[Derek Uzzell]

Accipiter Nisus - 2021-05-11 10:26 AM

 

I've included a couple of pictures of my gas bottle. As you can see I have the more recent one with the straight inlet. I'm hoping the Autogas filler will not foul the handle, but I'll have a better idea once the direct fill attachment arrives later this week...

The multi-valve unit of the latest Gaslow R67 bottle (which is what you have) has a horizontal OUTLET (see image attached below), but the filler-INLET of the original and latest bottles has a 90-degree crank.

 

Your bottle’s filler-inlet happens to point towards the bottle’s handle, whereas the filler-inlet of the (old design) R67 bottle shown in the photo attached to my posting of 11 May 2021 9:40 AM points away from the handle.

 

The direction of the filler inlet probably doesn’t matter much when a remote filling-point is installed and a filler-hose is connected to the filler-inlet, but may matter when a direct-fill adaptor is attached to the filler-inlet. Logically, when a ‘direct-fill’ Gaslow bottle is installed securely in a motorhome’s gas locker, the filler-inlet complete with direct-fill adaptor should point out of the locker in such a way that connecting an LPG pump gun to the direct-fill adaptor is easy and does not demand that the bottle itself be moved.

 

The gas locker door of a 2016 Elddis Accordo 105 seems to be significantly wider than high, but I don’t know what the locker’s internal shape is like. I think a direct-fill adaptor would clear your bottle’s handle OK, but it looks like the ON/OFF isolation valve would then be behind the bottle with the bottle’s outlet pointing to the right. You’ll have to suck it and see...

 

(I’m near certain that the door of a 2016 Accordo 105’s gas locker is ‘bottom-hinged’, which might complicate fitting a remote filling-point in the door.)

[Derek Uzzell]

paul2 - 2021-05-11 10:44 AM

 

Hi

 

Gaslow advertise the upgraded yellow knob and the straight out on their website for £10 each plus postage.

 

Paul

Thanks for pointing that out

 

https://www.gaslowdirect.com/product/gaslow-on-off-isolation-valve-upgrade-kit-01-4993/

 

https://www.gaslowdirect.com/product/gaslow-replacement-outlet-for-multivalve-01-4996/

 

Too late for me now, and AN’s R67 bottle already has those items.

[Accipiter Nisus]

you're quite right, the 2016 Elddis Accordo gas locker door does hinge at the bottom and the appature is 630mm wide X 330mm high with the bottle inlet nicely in the middle height wise. Although the gas tap is at the rear it is still easy enough to operate and the outlet comfortably connects to the tail with the inlet facing forward. Looking at videos of filling with Autogas, I'm guessing the width of the nozzle is around 50mm in diameter and that will clear the carrying handle with a bit to spare. Anyway, it has to be less than 70mm as that's the outside dimension of the filler box.

 

I've also found out that my local Flogas depot that I was hoping to use will not supply to a direct connector, so perhaps I will have to fit an outside kit, but I will see how I get on with other outlets first. I get the impression that others directly filling their bottles in the locker are generally not encountering too much trouble. Although I expect someone will disabuse me of this idea.

 

If I do fit a filler kit, I should be able to take the pipe out through a locker drain and drill the necessary 70mm hole in the plastic skirt below the locker.

[paul2]

Derek Uzzell - 2021-05-11 2:26 PM

 

Too late for me now, and AN’s R67 bottle already has those items.

I never need them either, what I did find useful was Gaslow's travel safe adapter 01-1685 as I need a longer pigtail for my back up calor bottle and still keep the truma rupture protection.

 

Paul

[Accipiter Nisus]

pleased to say I found a local engineering company who are happy to fill my bottle in the gas locker with the direct attachment, which largely solves my problems for the moment.

 

With regard to Derek's point about there being no seal between the bottle inlet and the adaptor. I made a gas tight joint by using PTFE tape on the threads. Probable best not overtighten to avoid putting a strain on the elbow where it enters the bottle, or at least support it while tightening.

[P_Dodd]

I have a pair of 11Kg Gaslow bottles in my Autotrail, and the filling point is fitted to a bracket between them inside the gas locker. The only problem I have encountered in filling them has been when I have forgotten that the gas locker door needs quite a lot of room to swing out to open and I haven’t allowed enough room beside the pump, so it won’t open and I’ve had to move the Motorhome.

[Accipiter Nisus]

It's good to hear you don't have trouble when opening your gas locker to refill in garages, apart from the size of the door. I'm encouraged to keep my set-up as it is.