Which tyres ?

[Grumpy Grandad]

Hi.

Our motorhome front tyres are in need of replacement. Currently have Michelin Agillis on all four wheels, but grip on soft ground is not fantastic. I am now looking at Michelin Cross Climate tyres but they are rated at 73db. Pirelli Carrier tyres are only 68db and are slightly cheaper. They are also classed as All Season. We mainly do rallies, so very seldom on tarmac. Any advice please.

Stuart

[Derek Uzzell]

Don't pick "Cross Climate" if you want better grip on non-tarmac surfaces like fields. Opt for a good quality 'all season' tyre with a chunky tread pattern - you might need to accept a bit more noise on tarmac surfaces, but that's too bad.

 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/10-year-old-tyres/57825/

[Grumpy Grandad]

Thanks Derek.

I thought looking on images of the Cross Climate tyres that they had quite a chunky pattern. Someone recommended Toyo Observe tyres, but I can't find any stockists. I live near Darlington.

Stuart

[Derek Uzzell]

I think the specification of your Rapido’s tyres is 215/70 R15C

 

This would be the appropriate Michelin “Cross Climate” tyre

 

https://www.tyreleader.co.uk/car-tyres/michelin/agilis-crossclimate/215-70-r15c-109-107r-855081

 

and you will note that this has a ‘directional’ tread pattern, meaning that - when fitted to a 4-wheeled vehicle - there will be a pair of left-hand-side wheels and a pair of right-hand-side wheels. This (in my view) may be fine on a high-performance car, but I’d question the logic of choosing directional tyres for a motorhome.

 

This link lists some 'all season’ 215/70 R15C tyres

 

https://www.camskill.co.uk/m152b0s8078p0/All_Season_-_Four_Season_-_All_Weather_-_Van_Motorhome_Tyres_-_15_inch_R15_inch_-_215_70_15_215_70R15

 

The trouble is that whatever tyre chosen for a motorhome, it’s likely to be a ‘commercial use’ tyre aimed at use on roads with a hard surface, not rally fields with a softish grassed surface that’s slippier than ice when wet. For real off-road grip an ‘all terrain’ tyre would be best, but finding one with a high enough load-carrying capability might be difficult, plus noise and grip on ordinary roads might well be disappointing.

 

(The Toyo “Observe” is a pure ‘winter’ tyre rather than ‘all season’.)

[mtravel]

An alternative to Cross Climate could be the Continental VanContact Camper (not the bad Vanco Camper).

 

But since you say you often go off-road I would consider the BF Goodrich brand.

A friend of mine has them on his Hymer MLT 4x4 and considers them the ultimate choice.

 

Max

[Derek Uzzell]

I think the potential problem with the Goodrich 'all terrain' tyre is that, for the 215/70 R15 size, the load index will be too low for GG's Rapido motorhome that's already pushing its rear axle load maximum.

 

https://www.mobilemech-shop.co.uk/cgi-bin/rshop.pl?dsco=457&typ=R-292600&partner=1&ID=psm_rdm_uk_idealo&Country=MUK

 

As I suggested above, this may well be the case for other makes of tyre in this size that will be intended for 4x4 SUVs and pick-ups,

 

Though there's no doubt that the Goodrich tyre should provide enhanced off-road grip, I don't think it's going to be an option on GG's Rapido unless a bigger tyre specification were chosen.

[Grumpy Grandad]

Hi.

When I replaced the two rear tyres in January last year, I increased the size too 225/ 70. 15. This was forward planning in case I ever thought of upping the carrying capacity of the motorhome. So the intention is to fit 225/ 70 15 tyres to the front axle as well.

The front tyres are 9 years old, and with one or two hairline cracks. The van does not have a spare wheel, and no space to carry one. So it's imperative that they are changed.

Stuart

[Derek Uzzell]

Although I vaguely recalled that you had been planning to upgrade the weight of your Rapido a while back, I’d overlooked that you'd said in your first posting on this thread that it was just the front tyres you were now going to replace.

 

In the 2020 discussion

 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Weight-uprate/54424/

 

you said you were planning to fit Michein “Agilis Camping” tyres and I assume that’s what you ended up doing.

 

I notice that in the 2020 thread I mentioned Hankook Vantra RA18, Continental VanContact 4Season and Agilis CrossClimate as possible alternatives to Agilis Camping and highlighted that CrossClimate had a directional tread pattern.

 

You currently have near-new Agilis Camping tyres on the Rapido’s rear wheels, but 9-years-old Agilis (presumably also Agilis Camping) tyres on the fronrt wheels, so it would be unrealistic to expect the elderly front tyres to be providing wonderful grip on any road surface nowadays let alone on soft ground.

 

As you are going to fit new tyres just to the front wheels, choosing ‘all terrain’ tyres like the Goodrich product would be a non-starter. The logical/safest/simplest thing to do would be to put Agilis Camping 225/70 R15CP tyres on the front wheels to match the tyres on the rear wheels - at least then you could swap tyres front-to-rear if you so wished.

 

These links mention ‘mixing’ different types of tyre

 

https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/askhj/answer/63515/mixing-cross-climate-and-summer-tyres---is-it-wise-

 

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&t=1763434

 

https://www.tyrereviews.com/Article/Thinking-about-fitting-just-two-all-season-or-winter-tyres.htm

 

Even if you fit an ‘all season’ tyre (intended to provide improved performance in wintry weather) I don’t think you’ll get appreciably better grip on a soft grass surface. You could try Pirelli’s “Carrier All Season” tyre (which is not a CP-marked ‘motorhome’ tyre like Agilis Camping)

 

https://www.national.co.uk/tyres/brand/pirelli/carrier-all-season/?SKU=2257015PR4SR

 

but don’t expect miraculous Land Rover grip on a wet rally field.

[kevina]

Continental Vanco Camper tyres now have 3 Peaks Mountain Snowflake (3PMS) tyre labelling, as well as M&S, meaning they are legal in all countries in winter. The tread pattern is the same as full winters but the compound seems a little less flexible.

[Grumpy Grandad]

Hi Derek.

I am getting a pair of Pirelli Carrier all season tyres fitted on Wednesday. 225/70. Bought through Black Circle for £122.08 each.

Hope I am doing the right thing. They will probably see my motorhoming days out !! Thanks for all of your advice

Stuart

[colin]

For me the important question is performance on the road where things can go wrong big time. If a tyre then offers better off road performance that is a bonus.

So lets talk real world experience of CrossClimates on a 4x4.

My Suzi came with Conti road tyres, these where only any good on dry warm roads. When on cold and wet roads, or off road they where useless. I replaced them with CrossClimates, these gave no less performance on dry warm roads, and gave much better performance on cold wet roads and off road. When next replacing tyres I will be looking at CrossClimates or one of the alternatives from other manufacturers, there is no way I'd use a true chunky off road tyre as they are useless on wet roads.

[Derek Uzzell]

There is plenty of online 'real world' discussion about Michelin "CrossClimate" tyres (and not all of it positive).

 

CrossClimate was discussed here in April

 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Kwik-Fit-getting-cross-about-cross-climates/57775/

 

If Stuart had chosen the CrossClimate tyre for his Rapido motorhome, he would have ended up with non-directional 'camping-car' tyres on the rear wheels and directional (supposedly higher grip) tyres on the front wheels - far from a recommended combination though legal in the UK.

 

When Stuart had his motorhome's rear tyres swapped in early-2020, careful consideration should have been given to the impending replacement of the vehicle's aged front tyres. Then the same tyres as chosen for the rear wheels could be fitted to the front wheels later on.

 

If fitting CP-marked tyres had not been considered essential Hankook Vantra LT RA18 tyres had gained a good reputation when independently tested, or, if an 'all season' 3MPSF tyre were preferred, Hankook offers the Vantra ST AS2 RA30.

[colin]

I must admit that at first I replaced two tyres on my Suzi, putting the new CrossClimates on rear and having a 'old' pair of Conti's with fairly unworn tread on front, not a good idea. I should have taken more notice of driving off muddy strip, when front wheels would start to spin up before throwing power to the rear, the first time I drove that combination in snow was a nightmare, the rears where pushing forward, but the fronts had little grip. The next day I ordered the second pair of CrossClimates.

 

[Wortho]

I'm looking for some new tyres for our Adria Twin and after reading about the Michelin Crossclimates I came across this thread. From the research that I have done it seems Michelin technical do not recommend the Crossclimates on a camper due to running lower pressures and the fact that campers have a constant heavy weight whereas commercial vans weight changes. Michelin also mentioned that Campers stand for long periods and Camper tyres are more suited as less likely to deform due to stronger casings and higher pressures. Anyway they have now released the Crossclimate camper tyres that meet the 3 peak snowflake requirements which I need for use in Scandinavia, the only problem is they don't seem to do a 15 inch tyre that I require so I would have to stick with the standard Crossclimates. I normally run the tyre pressure at 65 psi anyway and find the ride too harsh if going any higher. The tyres I have now are Toyo M+S and when we store the van I increase the pressures to minimise the tyre deforming and so far no problems so hoping the standard Crossclimates will be fine as well. The tread on the new Camper tyres looks the same and therefore directional but the spare I have is non directional and wondered if it's legal to run a directional and non directional tyre on the same axle while the directional is fixed? https://www.asdatyres.co.uk/blog/michelin-launches-new-crossclimate-camping/

[Derek Uzzell]

The UK MOT inspection manual advises as follows:

 

Structure

 

Tyres of different types of structure, such as radial-ply and cross-ply, must not be mixed on the same axle.

Steel and fabric radial-ply tyres are considered to be the same structure.

 

Run flat and conventional tyres can be mixed on the same axle, although this is not recommended.

 

So mixing directional and non-directional RADIAL tyres on the same axle would not be illegal in the UK, but it would be inadvisable.

 

There's plenty of online discussion about this - for example

 

https://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=157707

 

[TeamRienza]

I was interested recently to read about the new cross climates for Motorhomes. However they only come in one size at present, 225x75R16 which would suit my van. The cost differential between them and Aglis is not huge, the CrossClimate being £182 approx.

 

What will probably rule them out for me is the fact that I only need to replace the rear tyres at the end of this year at which time they will be 8 years old. Michelin state that crossclimates should not be mixed with other tyres and should only be fitted to all wheels at the initial purchase.

 

A secondary consideration is that I don’t need the 3 peaks symbol, nor do I park on grass often, I appreciate they might be a better (safer) tyre, but cannot justify the outlay and waste of existing tyres.

 

Davy