LHD v RHD

[Mrs Sea]

We are tempted to buy a LHD new motorhome as they are so much cheaper. We intend buying in this country from a dealer who specialises in importing LHD vehicles - we are not planning on going abroad to buy one ourselves.

 

We have read some other threads and appreciate that if buying a vehicle abroad it will not necessarily comply with headlights, fog lights, speedo etc but if we buy a new LHD in the UK shouldn't all these things already be sorted by the dealer?

 

What about parts and servicing - any difficulties?

 

Anyone out there any experience of buying LHD in the UK from one of these dealers?

 

Whats the hardest thing to get used to if driving a LHD vehicle in the UK?

 

Many thanks.

[Clive]

Overtaking if you don,t have a passenger comes to mind as a potential problem.

 

 

[Derek Uzzell]

If you Search the forum (see "Welcome" box in top right corner of screen) using Keywords = LHD, Filter by author = Derek Uzzell, Date limit = All posts you'll find plenty of earlier comments (for and against) on the question of LHD versus RHD.

 

Regarding UK technical requirements for registering a new imported vehicle (changes to lights, speedo, etc.) then the importer is responsible for ensuring that the vehicle complies. Before committing to purchasing the motorhome of your choice, the wise thing to do would be to confirm that the necessary work will be carried out by the importer and whether or not the cost will be included in the quoted price. You should make sure this is written into the purchase-contract.

 

Perhaps the best known 'non-dealer' importer of European motorhomes is Bundesvan (www. bundesvan.co.uk) who have been operating for over 10 years and are used by the trade as well as by private buyers.

[Brian Kirby]

To be honest, the only thing that is "hard" about driving a lhd van in UK is adjusting to the handbrake and gear lever being sited differently to where you expect them to be!  Some find they adjust more readily than others, it is all a question of how fast you learn new tricks.  Most base vehicles place you high enough to see over most traffic, so your view ahead, other vans and HGVs excepted, is good whether lhd or rhd.

Provided you don't finish up with a version of a vehicle that is unavailable in UK, spares/servicing shouldn't present any problem.  Just remember that things like clutch and accelerator cables, or steering racks, will not commonly be stocked in UK, so may take a bit longer to provide, if needed.

If you've already decided what you want, contact the maker of the base vehicle (i.e. Fiat, Ford etc), or look on their website, find your nearest service centres.  Then, give them a ring, and ask them about servicing a lhd motorhome.  Generally you'll find the size of a motorhome presents more of a problem for servicing (because of the extra length/height), than which side the steering wheel is!

If the vehicle is registered by the importer, as stated above, it is his responsibility to ensure it complies for UK use.  Probably most important legally is the speedometer, which must read MPH.  At all costs, make sure this is "done". 

The registrant signs a declaration that all is correct.  There is a recently introduced VOSA inspection prior to registration, but it isn't yet quite clear what checks this involves beyond verifying the vehicle presented is the one imported and that described on the application.  Once registered, therefore, you could assume that anything that has "slipped through the net" is their responsibility, and not yours.  However, if you find the headlamps are not to UK spec (i.e. if they dip right) post registration, "beam benders" or masks can be fitted, and will currently be accepted for MoT purposes when this arises. 

Therefore, you may have a bit of a choice.  If the lamps dip right and you don't envisage driving after dark in UK, you just could keep the original headlamps and turn them down on the levelling control (which I believe all the base vehicles now have) if you get caught out in fog or rain.  Or you could get left dippers fitted, but keep the right dippers for when you go abroad. 

Ditto the rear fog lamp, although you may only need to fit an extra bulb to get a UK offside rear fog.

Hope this helps.

[icdsun]

Hi Mrs Sea

 

We were in the same situation as you and also newcomers to MH, so very little knowledge of layouts etc, we wanted to see an Adria 687 but none available to view, I was told by Adria UK that at present they cannot compel their dealers to carry out warranty work on a vehicle they did not supply, particuarly a LHD, one dealer would do warranty work for us but we would need to pay for this work and reclaim from Adria was the solution offered by one of the the dealers, severeal said they would not do any warranty work at all on a LHD. The base vehicles presented no issues as far as warranty etc but the habitation was a different scenario, as a lot of the issues appear can be with this side of the vehicle the warranty issue was a factor for us and at the NEC show we were able to look at our other choice Burstner, which we compared with the Adria and personally we felt the Burstner had the edge as far as build quality.

 

We were able to get the new Burstner to just under £900 difference as opposed to importing LHD, so with travel costs etc and no warranty issue from dealer we ordered a RHD.

 

LHD or RHD was not really a concern as regards driving etc both are a compromise depending where you are visiting, the paperwork is fairly straight forward and we did budget to change speedo, lights etc to UK C+U specs, if the price differential was greater then we would go LHD but probably late used with a 2-3 week break in Germany so we could check out and fix any isues before leaving for the UK.

 

We get our MH in July which is very slowly approaching, I hope you enjoy your choice.

 

Chris

[Guest JudgeMental]

I have just imported a new EuraMobil from Belgium last week, it is sitting on my drive and I have an inspection booked for tomorrow with The DVLA. So all being well should get plates then.

 

Was a little apprehensive regards driving a large LHD but in reality there was absolutely no problem either on the motorway or around London where we live. Regards warranty issues I think the dealers approach will be different if you turn up with an actual vehicle. ( they will use every trick in the book to dissuade you from purchasing a LHD) I believe you could cause them some difficulty with the parent company if they refuse to deal with you – warranties are Europe wide.

 

most warranty issues are with ancillary equipment such as Truma heating etc.. for this work you go to the agents directly and not the dealer.

 

icdsun, have seen you quote this £900 difference before – and I am intrigued that you have managed to find such an accommodating UK dealer. Which model did you buy?

 

Personally I saved well over £8000 on my camper. And the Hymer van a popular model in this country is £27000 in Europe - £35.000 here.

 

We were originally going to get an Adria and went to Düsseldorf show to view. UK price was £45000 Show price in Germany £35000. So you can see significant savings can be had and it is defiantly IMO worth the little effort involved.

 

 

[Mel E]

LHD is really no problem in the UK as you can't overtake on single carriageway roads anyway because of traffic densities in the UK and dual-carriageways and motorways are no problem.

 

LHD is much safer on the Continent where, depending on the country, they kill around 2 to 3 times as many as we do per head of population.

 

By all means buy in the UK, but you are giving up a significant saving, even using a 'grey' importer. In Germany, you can typically negotiate a 10% or more discount on the price, which will also typically be lower. That's worth having and the process is extremely simple - if you want more info PM me for details of the MMM Fact Sheet on Buying Abroad.

 

And don't think the UK-based dealer will automatically do the work to convert to UK requirements - some just ignore it!

 

Mel E

====

[Mrs Sea]

Thanks for all your comments. I will check out Bundesvan - I did not know about them and have been speaking to GoEuropean and Buy European Direct (both based in Redditch area). Like JudgeMental the price difference is several thousand not a mere £900 quoted by icdsun. The Adria dealers in UK told me there would be no price difference to go LHD and it might even be more expensive! Whos kidding who?

 

We too considered Burstner but have not been able to view anything like the layout we want. It was the same for Knaus, Pilote, Dethleffs, Hymer etc. No dealer can even give us a date when we might be able to view one and then we might have to wait another few months for ours to come once ordered......

 

We will try and get test drives of both the Fiat and Renault as you suggest but if we're not interested in buying the van we test drive I'm not sure the dealer will play ball. Likewise, borrowing a 7m van to try and get it up our lane when we've no intention of buying... especially as we are about an hour from the 2 nearest Motorhome dealers.

 

Servicing the Renault or Fiat is not a problem as there are Renault and Fiat dealers not too far away who can take motorhomes. Its warranty work we are concerned about having had bodywork problems with our first van. Even though we bought RHD from a UK dealer it was a nightmare and driving down from Scotland to Bury and back 3 times (and catching the train to get home again, and back again to collect 3 times) - is not something easily forgotten.

 

We will have to weigh up all the Pros and Cons before we decide - but as we can't get to see any of our shortlist until mid June we've plenty of time to gather all the evidence.

 

Thanks again for all your comments.

[Derek Uzzell]

Mrs Sea:

 

Based on statistics provided in various magazine test reports, current Fiat Ducato and Renault Master chassis have FRONT overhangs of 0.95m (Fiat) and 0.93m (Renault).

 

The wheelbase of a (Fiat-based) Adria Coral 680SP is stated as 4.035m and the overall length as 7.28m. On that basis the rear overhang will be 2.295m (57% of wheelbase).

 

The wheelbase of a (Renault-based) Adria Izola 687SPG is 4.078m and the overall length is 7.05m. This results in a rear overhang of 2.042m (50% of wheelbase) and this figure near-enough tallies with the datum quoted in MMM's 02/2007 report on an Izola S687SP once the difference in overall lengths has been allowed for.

 

The above calculations won't be exact to the millimetre. They just indicate that, as the two Adria models selected have similar wheelbase and front overhang lengths, the rear overhang distance is proportional to the vehicle's overall length. Both rear overhangs are comfortably within the traditional recommended maximum of 60% of wheelbase and there are plenty of motorhomes from other manufacturers with significantly longer ones (up to 70% of wheelbase in some cases).

 

I believe the Coral 680SP is built on Fiat's 'special motorhome' chassis that offers front and rear anti-roll bars as well as the wider rear track already mentioned. There are other features that make this chassis attractive to the converter (factory cut-away cab, rationalised electrical and heating systems, availability of factory-fitted cab-seat swivels, etc.), but the biggest plus is probably the lowered 'open' chassis-frame.

 

I note that Adria's brochure says that Coral has a double floor but I'm not sure what that means exactly. The overall height of an Izola 687SPG is 2.69m, while that of a Coral 680SP is only a little greater at 2.76m. Izola uses a platform-cab chassis (basically a sheet steel pressing) and these are normally pretty low-slung. The Coral has a ladder-design chassis that (even in lowered format) one would expect to be no closer to the ground than the Izola's. All of this suggests that the Coral's double floor is pretty shallow and I do wonder whether its waste-water tank is actually fully enclosed within it. As far as I can make out from Adria's brochure, 687SPG and 680SP both have a "12V waste water heater" which suggests the waste tank on the Coral is (at least partially) exterior.

 

For a motorhome to remain operable and autonomous in very cold weather all its vulnerable habitation components (water tanks, pipework, drain valves, etc.) will need to be fully protected from freezing. Realistically, this means enclosing those components within a double floor that can be warmed by the motorhome's own heating system. Nowadays it's commonplace to fit a 12V 'immersion heater'-type element into externally-mounted waste-tanks (that may also be insulated). However, these elements place a heavy drain on a battery and a relay is normally fitted to inhibit their operation unless the vehicle is being driven or is on mains hook-up (ie. when the motorhome's battery is receiving charge). This reduces their value for mid-winter wild campers.

[Brian Kirby]

If you want to get some idea of what advantage a double floor can bring, look at Eura Mobil motorhomes.  They seem to "specialise" in vans with double floors. 

However, there are double floors and double floors.  Classically, a double floor is just what it sounds like.  That is to say a floor skin laid over the base vehicle chassis, with a second floor skin laid above that, supported on pedestals, to create a void somewhere around 150mm between the two.  That void is usually accessible around the perpihery via external traps, and from the inside via seat base lockers and the odd floor trap. 

The lower floor skin is insulated, the upper usually not.  The void is heated by running the heater ducts through it, sometimes by installing a wet heating system through it.  At its best, it is a little deeper than 150mm and houses within it the batteries plus fresh and waste water tanks and all the drain and water supply piping, all of which are thereby prevented from freezing.  Other parts of the void are available for storage.  The downside is the increased cost and greater external height of the 'van. 

However, since the new Fiat chassis is of ladder type with nice big holes in it, a number of constructors are taking advantage of these holes to sink parts of the vehicle floor, so forming one or two accessible "cellar" type tank/storage voids between the ladder "rungs".  These are topped over at normal floor level, and some are being referred to as double, (though more accurately partial double) floors.  This may be what Adria is doing.

[icdsun]

Eddie

You have a PM

 

Chris

[colin]

Derek Uzzell - 2007-04-10 9:30 AM

 

Mrs Sea:

 

Based on statistics provided in various magazine test reports, current Fiat Ducato and Renault Master chassis have FRONT overhangs of 0.95m (Fiat) and 0.93m (Renault).

 

The wheelbase of a (Fiat-based) Adria Coral 680SP is stated as 4.035m and the overall length as 7.28m. On that basis the rear overhang will be 2.295m (57% of wheelbase).

 

The wheelbase of a (Renault-based) Adria Izola 687SPG is 4.078m and the overall length is 7.05m. This results in a rear overhang of 2.042m (50% of wheelbase) and this figure near-enough tallies with the datum quoted in MMM's 02/2007 report on an Izola S687SP once the difference in overall lengths has been allowed for.

 

The above calculations won't be exact to the millimetre. They just indicate that, as the two Adria models selected have similar wheelbase and front overhang lengths, the rear overhang distance is proportional to the vehicle's overall length. Both rear overhangs are comfortably within the traditional recommended maximum of 60% of wheelbase and there are plenty of motorhomes from other manufacturers with significantly longer ones (up to 70% of wheelbase in some cases).

 

I believe the Coral 680SP is built on Fiat's 'special motorhome' chassis that offers front and rear anti-roll bars as well as the wider rear track already mentioned. There are other features that make this chassis attractive to the converter (factory cut-away cab, rationalised electrical and heating systems, availability of factory-fitted cab-seat swivels, etc.), but the biggest plus is probably the lowered 'open' chassis-frame.

 

I note that Adria's brochure says that Coral has a double floor but I'm not sure what that means exactly. The overall height of an Izola 687SPG is 2.69m, while that of a Coral 680SP is only a little greater at 2.76m. Izola uses a platform-cab chassis (basically a sheet steel pressing) and these are normally pretty low-slung. The Coral has a ladder-design chassis that (even in lowered format) one would expect to be no closer to the ground than the Izola's. All of this suggests that the Coral's double floor is pretty shallow and I do wonder whether its waste-water tank is actually fully enclosed within it. As far as I can make out from Adria's brochure, 687SPG and 680SP both have a "12V waste water heater" which suggests the waste tank on the Coral is (at least partially) exterior.

 

For a motorhome to remain operable and autonomous in very cold weather all its vulnerable habitation components (water tanks, pipework, drain valves, etc.) will need to be fully protected from freezing. Realistically, this means enclosing those components within a double floor that can be warmed by the motorhome's own heating system. Nowadays it's commonplace to fit a 12V 'immersion heater'-type element into externally-mounted waste-tanks (that may also be insulated). However, these elements place a heavy drain on a battery and a relay is normally fitted to inhibit their operation unless the vehicle is being driven or is on mains hook-up (ie. when the motorhome's battery is receiving charge). This reduces their value for mid-winter wild campers.

 

I'm not sure why you posted this on this thread, but anyway I will repeat. The info supplied by Fiat and Vauxhall for front overhang is Ducato 948mm, Movano 862mm

[Derek Uzzell]

Colin,

 

No, I don't understand why I put that stuff on this thread either!

 

If I had selected the right thread in the first place and seen that you had already provided accurate front-overhang figures for both chassis then I obviously wouldn't have bothered attempting to calculate them.