KMH to MPH?????????

[Pentland]

Hi to you all,

This is my first thread on this site, i race a bike round the UK and have recently been sponsored by Southdowns Motorcaravans and they have kindly supplied me with a 2007 Europeo 5, its the one with Fiat cab etc.

 

Now its a left hooker with an KMH only speedo and it is speed trap city round here so i really need some sort of conversion ie. a sticker or something?

 

Can anyone help or advise me?

 

Many thanks

Keith :-D

[tonyishuk]

I know that one can get speedo overlays for imported m/cycles, Might be worth asking if companies make them for your dashboard.

 

Plan (B) Dymo tape with MPH, One you get to know what the equivlent MPH is for KPH, it becomes second nature knowing what the speed is.

 

(Like driving on the continent but in reverse *-)

[Bazza454]

Pentland - 2007-04-10 10:11 AM Hi to you all, This is my first thread on this site, i race a bike round the UK and have recently been sponsored by Southdowns Motorcaravans and they have kindly supplied me with a 2007 Europeo 5, its the one with Fiat cab etc. Now its a left hooker with an KMH only speedo and it is speed trap city round here so i really need some sort of conversion ie. a sticker or something? Can anyone help or advise me? Many thanks Keith :-D

Hi,

Any of these sites give info re converting KMH to MPH.

I'm not sure where/if you can buy stickers, but it shouldn't be too difficult to make your own.

http://www.eforecourt.com/mph_kph_speed_convert.htm

http://www.driving-abroad.info/kph_to_mph_conversion.php

http://www.citysync.co.uk/content/technical/mph.html

[net-traveller]

You could always try a bit of mental arithmetic to while away the miles.

 

To convert miles to kilometers - divide by 5 then multiply by 8.

 

To convert kilometers to miles - divide by 8 then multiply by 5.

 

The other way is 1.6 - miles to k multiply by 1.6, k to m divide by 1.6.

 

All down to your own mental capacity.

 

;-)

[Guest JudgeMental]

 

borrow a label machine and stick 30/40/50/60/70/90/ stickers on using the 1.6 calculation above. example: 48 kph = 30 mph. so stick the 30 mph on @ 48 KPH etc etc.....

[Pentland]

Yes when you know how that was quite simple really.

30mph = 48kmh

40mph = 64kmh

50mph = 80 kmh

etc etc etc

 

Kinda like the idea of sticking the numbers on the sppeedo, cheap and chearful!

 

Just one other thing, i did ask them when i picked it up shouldn't they by law do something with the speedo, cause basically its not fit for our roads then if i got caught for speeding surely with a good lawyer they could fight this for you?

All our vehicles in the UK have both speeds on the tacho so why do the Italians decide not to bother hardly a great deal of money to put another set of decals on the thing, they must know that lots of there vans get exported??

Sorry i'm rambling now.

[Brian Kirby]

Pentland - 2007-04-10 10:11 AM Hi to you all, This is my first thread on this site, i race a bike round the UK and have recently been sponsored by Southdowns Motorcaravans and they have kindly supplied me with a 2007 Europeo 5, its the one with Fiat cab etc. Now its a left hooker with an KMH only speedo and it is speed trap city round here so i really need some sort of conversion ie. a sticker or something? Can anyone help or advise me? Many thanks Keith :-D

Keith

Not sure what you mean when you say "supplied" you with the motorhome. 

If you bought it, and they registered it for you as first owner from new, politely suggest to them that they are responsible for making sure it meets UK regulations.  That includes a speedometer that reads MPH at night as well as by day.  The headlamps should also dip left, which must be achieved without masks or beam benders, and the high intensity rear fog lamp must be on UK offside, or vehicle centre line. 

As it stands your van is technically illegal and you might have insurance problems, unless all of the areas where it fails to comply have been declared.  Just saying lhd won't do!

If the van is part of the sponsorship deal the above conversation may be more difficult!  If the van was pre-owned before you got it, the fault for non-compliance lies elsewhere.  If it is not the current (2007) version of the Ducato, you will be able to get a speedometer overlay.  If it is the latest version you'll probably have to get the speedo changed. 

For an overlay, try a web search under Lockswood International.  You may have to ring them to get the actual item, it is a bit difficult to search out on the website. 

Regarding the headlamps, since the vehicle is already registered, as an alternative to changing the units, you could use beam benders or masks.  While not not legal for registration, peversely, they can be accepted for MoT.  Seems a bit of a grey area, somehow!

[Clive]

Its illegal, so get them to sort it pronto.

 

[Pentland]

Thanks guys thought that was the case!

 

I have brought on finance, they have kindly helped towards the deposit!

So it is mine for the next 7 years atleast!

 

So they say there is no profit in it for them to start spending money on it?

But as i said before its a pain in the rear end for me to start changing the speedo about.

 

I'm having a photo shoot down there tomorrow with the local paper and my bike etc, i shall bring this question up again with them.

 

What the kind chap has written on here advising me that its not right i shall print it out and take it with me hope you don't mind, obviously i'll delete your details.

 

Are we sure its illegal? I want to get my facts right?

 

Thanks again to you all you've been very helpful.

Keith *-)

[Guest JudgeMental]

 

just been knocked back by DVLA inspection for registration on my new camper , because of KPH speedo - they insist on MPH now.

 

no mention of headlights or fog lamp.

[kelly58]

Hi I have a new 2007 Peugeot M/Home although the speedo is digital and mph it can be changed to kph on the right hand stalk by scrolling through the menu and changing the settings its worth a try.

[Brian Kirby]

Pentland - 2007-04-10 5:24 PM Thanks guys thought that was the case! I have brought on finance, they have kindly helped towards the deposit! So it is mine for the next 7 years atleast! So they say there is no profit in it for them to start spending money on it? But as i said before its a pain in the rear end for me to start changing the speedo about. I'm having a photo shoot down there tomorrow with the local paper and my bike etc, i shall bring this question up again with them. What the kind chap has written on here advising me that its not right i shall print it out and take it with me hope you don't mind, obviously i'll delete your details. Are we sure its illegal? I want to get my facts right? Thanks again to you all you've been very helpful. Keith *-)

Keith

I can't quote you chapter and verse on which regulations apply where, but the requirements are set out clearly enough, in general terms, in Department of Transport booklet P15: "How to Import a Vehicle into Great Britain", section 2.6 "Modifications necessary for use in Britain", commencing page 11.  The booklet is available from DVLA.  Strictly, the onus is on you, as the vehicle owner, to ensure it complies.  However, when a private individual applies to register a personal import, they sign an undertaking that the necessary modifications have been carried out. 

For dealers this is different, since they generally have on line access direct to the DVLA.  I don't know what undertakings they give, but I'd imagine the DVLA would be a bit miffed if they knew your revered sponsor was playing fast and loose with the rules!

As things stand, you may be technically entitled to reject your vehicle as not fit for purpose and could presumably notify the credit provider it is not legally usable.  However, that is the "nuclear" option, so I hope you can resolve this amicably.  Good luck.

[Pentland]

Thank you Brian very kind of you.

 

I'll let you know tomorrow.

Keith.

 

P.s

The speedo is the needle type not digital so i can't change it, think it was Kelly that asked that?

Thanks.

[Pentland]

Well i've been in, had a chat with the big chief and he said

 

"hmmmm not sure about all that i'll get a definate answer on that............"

 

Then rang the chap who sold me the van on his mobile he began to talk to me thinking i was someone called Steve i told him no its Keith then he had to go real quick as he was with customers in the show room and he'd call me back!!!!!!!!!

 

Yeah right still awaiting that call!!!!!!!!!!

 

So i rang the girls on reception telling them there was a problem with my brand new van a noise form under neath could somebody call me back asap, " yeah no problem they're at lunch at the moment Andrew will call this afternoon............"

 

NOPE!!!!!!!!

 

Now what????

Help!

Keith :'(

[Derek Uzzell]

No reputable motorhome trader should be UK-registering a new imported LHD vehicle without replacing the instrument-cluster (assuming this includes a kmh-only speedometer) and the original right-dipping headlights (assuming these lack the facility to be adjusted to a left-dipping beam pattern), and ensuring that the rear fog-light is in the UK-correct position.

 

I'm not certain if sticking numeric 'labels' at 10-mph intervals on the existing speedometer-dial meets DfT requirements that add-on markings must be accurate, durable and day/night visible. However, one thing is certain - it's Southdowns' responsibility to provide you with a motorhome that has a speedometer with accurate mph and kmh read-outs. As Southdowns specialise in Continental imports they will be well aware of this and shirking that responsibility does nothing for the company's reputation.

 

[Brian Kirby]

Keith

I'm not quite clear where you got to.  You went in and spoke to the boss at Southdown's showroom, and he promised to investigate?

You then seem to have phoned the salesman.  But why, if the boss was already investigating?

You then phoned reception with a cock and bull story about noises from under the van.  But again, why did you do this if the boss was investigating?

Since you've already spoken to the boss, and he's agreed to investigate, you surely need to give him the time to find out what went wrong. 

Then, if he doesn't come back to you within a couple of days or so, go back and speak to him again. 

In the meantime, do your homework.  Contact DVLA and find out what the dealer should have done before registering the vehicle, and where that is written down, and how you can get a copy. 

Then, when you've all your ducks in a row, go back to talk to the boss again.  You'll know soon enough if he's flanneling, because you'll have the facts, and can present him with these to show you know what you're talking about.

That's what you do next!

Bottom line, he has to make your vehicle legal for UK use, and if he fails to do so you can probably reject the vehicle.  As an alternative, if he won't budge, I'm fairly sure you could sue him through the small claims court for whatever it costs you to get the lights, front and rear, and the speedometer head, changed.

[Pentland]

When i spoke to the boss he was more interested in getting me to his house to look at his heating system as this is my trade, you know when you talk to someone and there really not interested thats what i was feeling!!!

 

I did have a noise under the van, under the front seat there is a box with wires etc coming out of it with the battery next to it, when i'm hooked up to the mains it keeps clicking on and off with some sort of fan running, so its quite annoying so i was calling to ask as to what this was then while on the phone i could ask if anything was happening with speedo!

 

I will take your advice and call the DVLA today!

 

Keith >:-(

[Derek Uzzell]

The relevant Department for Transport booklet is P15 "How to Register a Vehicle Imported into Great Britain".

 

There should really be no need for you to involve yourself with the DVLA. Southdowns will be fully aware they should not be selling a vehicle with a kmh-only speedometer and it's their responsibility to resolve the issue in a legal manner.

[Pentland]

Well here we go!

 

Spoken to DVLA who were very helpful and they did tend to agree to what you guys have said, so they put me in touch with VOSA as its there department, they said with motorhomes there is a loop hole 8o|

 

They can sell a motorhome with a KMH clock then it is down to who is the registered keeper of the vehicle to make sure it is fit to use on our roads...

 

However it is ILEGAL in the UK to drive a vehicle on UK plates if it is not showing MPH!

They said it would fail an MOT in three years time for sure, and if pulled over by our friends in blue they could deem the vehicle unfit to drive at anytime?

 

He also stressed that any main dealer would normally do this as a rule when importing stuff as not to upset/cause problems to prospective buyers.

 

He did say that it would probably be up to me to get it changed and a stick over MPH won't do as Fiats have back lit displays so only a new speedo will surfice, he advised me to get legal advice from either a solicitor or citizens advice....

 

Man i'm pig sick of this already........

I wish i had choose another van, not happpy.... :-(

[Brian Kirby]

Keith

I seems you have your answer.  Your vehicle can legally be sold but it can't legally be used.  I assume you bought it to use, and it was sold to you to use.  Therefore, Southdown's shouldn't have sold it to you.  This is contract law, not really statute law. 

Just either go back to Southdowns, talk to the boss, get his attention, and advise him that he needs to replace the headlights and speedometer, and ensure the rear fog light is on the centre line or UK offside of the van. 

If he resists, go to Trading Standards, tell them what you've told us, and ask for their advice. 

I'd guess the whole lot can probably be fixed for around £5/600.  If all else fails, write to Southdowns stating that you consider them liable, give them 7 working days to respond, and advise that after that time you will get the work carried out by an Authorised Fiat dealership and seek to recover the costs from them. 

I suspect this is what TS will advise anyway, but talk to them first, because they have some draft standard letters etc that may help.

Good luck, stay calm, and don't let it get you down!

[Pentland]

Hi Brian,

 

I spoke to the guy who sold me the van and told him in a calm manor the info i had found out and that i wanted something done about it, He said that as they had helped me with the funding of the van that there was no money left in the pot to sort this sort of thing out?

 

I informed him that it is ilegal for me to be driving it around like it is and he started to get a bit arsey to be fair, saying he thought we were buddies and that is sadend him that i was doing this to them after all they had done for me.

I did say that i was very grateful and that i didn't want to fall out with them but stressed how disapointed i was that they had sold this to me in the state that it is in.

 

He said that he'd already spoken to one of the directors and that he had said to him about the money in the pot stuff so i kindly asked him to make my feelings known. he said the director would call me today to discuss further, he hasn't called but i will leave the ball in their court for a few days then do what you suggested and write to them, stating that they are a multi million pound a year business and they can upset their so called sponsored rider over a speedo.

 

Well we lie in wait!!!!!!!!!!!!! :-S

 

Thanks again

Keith.

[Brian Kirby]

Keith

Have you yet been to Trading Standards?  If not, I suggest you make that your first priority before writing that letter. 

You need them to feel guilty, and a bit sorry for you.  If you attack them in the terms you suggest, you'll give them grounds to claim you are being offensive and you risk losing any co-operation. 

Do get a copy of the DoT booklet detailed above.  You need evidence, not assertion!

Have you notified your insurers that the van has not been modified for UK registration, or are you keeping it off the road at present?

[Pentland]

Its on my drive off the road!

 

I will call TS today.

[Guest JudgeMental]

Just had tp change mine to MPH as DVLA refused to register new camper with KPH.

 

cost for Ford, £190 parts plus £87 labour. considering the savings I made buying abroad - no problem.

 

in your case I would give dealer 7 days (in writing - registered letter) to respond to your request. then get the work done yourself and spend £50 and pursue dealer through the small claims court.

 

dealers don't like going to court. plus the bad press :-D

[fjmike]

Have been following this thread as we are in the process of importing a Pilote from France. To give a broader view on prices just got off the phone from the Merc. dealer who quoted me £226.22 for the speedo and £135.99 each for the headlights. I would imagine the fitting costs for the speedo would be similar to that quoted to The Judge