KMH to MPH?????????

[Pentland]

Here is the letter i have sent to southdowns!!!

 

 

Dear Mr Ayling

May I take this opportunity to thank you with the support that you have given me so far with my new motorhome for my racing.

 

As I am sure that you are aware I have some issues that I hope we can resolve in a friendly manor, I have spoken to you before about my concerns with this vehicle being imported that the speedometer is in KMH I have spoken to the DVLA and they have put me in contact with VOSA, they have stressed that the van is illegal to be driven in the UK on UK plates without a MPH speedometer and the correct headlamp conversions but as you are the sole importers of these particular Remor vans I’m sure that you know this already.

I can’t believe that you import these and then sell them to the public without either doing the necessary modifications or informing the customer what needs to be done before being driven on our roads?

I have spoken to Mr Piggott about this several times and he keeps saying that as you have discounted the van as sponsorship there is no money left in the pot? I must stress I am truly grateful for the package you have kindly put together for me but I would have rather the van been made road legal in the first place and a slightly different package put together to keep me the customer happy!

 

Now as you know I run my own plumbing/heating company and there is no way that I would import a Italian boiler, fit it in your house at a discounted rate and not do the modifications to the burners to convert it to our natural gas here in the UK, then after 6 months when the jets burn out! I’ll inform you that as it was a discounted deal therefore there is no money left in the pot!!!! I’m sure you’d be less than pleased?

 

I wouldn’t and couldn’t do that to you as my customer as a happy customer would tell everyone else about the service I provide.

Now your business is a multi million pound a year business and I’m sure making my motorhome legal for me to drive in the UK would not be a major issue for you, this is not a begging letter it’s a letter stressing that this should have been done before I took ownership of it, I still have to pay £399 a month for the next 7 years which is a lot of money to me.

How am I supposed to promote your company to my fellow racers if I’m not happy myself?

I look forward to your response in this matter and hope my van can be legalised as soon as possible.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

 

 

 

 

Keith Hooper.

 

[Burstner620]

Derek Uzzell - 2007-04-14 8:33 AM

I'm not certain if sticking numeric 'labels' at 10-mph intervals on the existing speedometer-dial meets DfT requirements that add-on markings must be accurate, durable and day/night visible.

 

Markings at intervals of 20mph meets requirements.

(Your choice whether you start at '0' or '10')

But I don't think I'd be accepting one that way from a dealer !

[Ralph]

Not quite on this topic but related to it, I have a chart of KPH - MPH speed conversions that I keep pinned up in the van when I'm abroad. I find that the KPH markings on my speedo are too small to see easily so now when I pass a speed limit sign I glance at the chart and convert it to MPH.

 

 

[Terrytraveller]

Hi Ralph,

 

You said

“I find that the KPH markings on my speedo are too small to see easily”

 

I had the same problem until I bought a pair of bifocal spectacles specifically for driving, although they are good for general use.

 

Generally speaking the readability of all the instruments are designed for people with good vision, if you cannot easily read the secondary numbers on the Speedo, then you owe it to yourself and others to pay a visit to the optician.

 

Regards Terry

 

 

[michele]

i,m sorry to see you are having all this trouble but the lads are quite right and yourself it is illegal as pointed out to you by Vosa as well .

 

I just asked my hubby on reading all of this why can't a copper just convert it over to MPH if nicked . His reply was he imagines it's under the constructions and use regulations and would be subject to a PG9 notice if stopped by police it would have to be rectified and MOT tested to rectify the PG9 notice ....PG9 is a warning to mend your vehicle or else court .

 

But the usual applies because 99 out of 100 M/H users are responsible people who never come to notice BUT ....best for you to get it done by hook or by crook .

Good luck avoid the PG9 ..

[Derek Uzzell]

Michele:

 

There's a section on speedometers in (I think it's called) the Police's "The Road Traffic Officer's Handbook". My local police station gave me a photocopy of this section once: I can't lay my hand on it, but, from I recall, it specifies that (with certain exceptions) a UK-registered road vehicle must have a speedometer that provided mph AND km/h readings.

[michele]

Derek,

Thankyou.

I think I have done my usual muck up but thats what I was trying to infer .

Basically that the information you and the others had kindly given was correct .

I do hope he gets it sorted seems an awful shame that he is fed up before even starting . These things are sent to try us I suppose .

 

[Pentland]

Last weekend i took the motorhome to Pembrey in Wales for my racing, i had 5 of us in total on board with my Triumph race bike in the garage, now everytime we steered to the right on the motorway the rear wheel seems to rub underneath on the wheel arch maybe.

Surley this can't be right???

 

I am absolutly pig sick of this van already and wish i could take it back get a full refund and buy something else....... :'(

 

Maybe i should persue this, i've dreamed of having my own comfy race truck for ages then i save up buy myself what i thought was a cracking piece of kit then all i get is whole world of crap! >:-)

 

If i do decide to sell it what would you guys and girls reccomend?

I need a garage on the back big enough for a road motorbike and some kit, seperate shower, 3 double beds or atleast 2 and a single, wc, hot water, heating etc...... reliable....

 

:'( :'(

[Guest JudgeMental]

5 and all the associated gear plus a bike is a substantial amount of weight?

 

speedo issue aside, its really down to you to purchase the right vehicle with the right capacity's for your needs.

 

best to visit a weighbridge and check axle weights (with bike on board) plus total weight to see where you stand.

 

cheer up - its not the end of the world!

worse case scenario - you may have to get a trailer for bikes...

 

[Brian Kirby]

I think Eddie is right.  With 5 up, + race bike, + no doubt other bits and pieces, I'd guess your rear axle was seriously overloaded.  How much does the race bike weigh?  Even a scooter is over 100Kg, and that is close to the boot floor load maximum for many vans - without reference to the rear axle load.  It might be a good idea to check the rear wheel arches though, in case a tyre has caused the arch liner to wear!  You don't want it filling uo with water when you drive in the rain!

Not only could overloading get you booked, it could also cause a tyre to blow, with potentially disasterous consequences.  Running motorhomes, and getting the axle loads, overall weight, and tyre pressures all right is quite complex - as you seem to be discovering! 

You mentioned yours is a Rimor.  They do seem a bit coy about the MIRO and payload on their website, so you'll have to have a look at your handbook.  You may also have to weigh it empty, as well as loaded, to find out what actual payload margin you have.  Get two weights each time, one with just the rear axle on the platform, and the other with the whole van on.  Front axle weight is then whole vehicle weight minus rear axle weight.

However, once you find out what you can, and can't do, it all becomes pretty routine.  As Eddy says, don't give up, it's just the learning curve!

[Derek Uzzell]

Pentland:

 

Southdowns Motorhome Centre markets the Rimor Superbrig 747 "Racehome" (advert in MMM May 2007, page 214). This motorhome is based on a Mercedes Sprinter 4600kg RWD chassis with double-wheel rear axle and is advertised as having been developed for motor sports enthusiasts wishing to carry a motorcycle or quad-bike in the vehicle's rear garage. I don't know if this design exactly matches the internal layout you want, but it should definitely meet your load-carrying requirements. At approaching £48K it's a lot more expensive than your present Europeo 5, but it's the sort of motorhome you would be better off with if you are going to carry lots of people and plenty of heavy kit.

 

According to the data on the Southdowns website, the Europeo 5 is a relatively long vehicle with a none too long wheelbase. This might be OK if it weren't for the big garage and the full size motorbike (plus all the other unavoidable racing-related stuff) you are putting in it. As Brian Kirby has already suggested, there is a strong chance that your motorhome's back-axle weight limit will have been surpassed. Also, if the vehicle's standard 3500kg chassis maximum hasn't been uprated, then it's pretty much inevitable that the complete vehicle will be well overweight when fully loaded. If there's a sound like a tyre rubbing when the motorhome is cornering, then that's very possibly what's happening!

 

I agree that the vehicle should be weighed (individual axle-weights and overall) in fully loaded condition. However, I'm uncomfortable with the idea that, should the weigh-bridge exercise reveal that the motorhome has insufficient load-carrying capacity for your motor-sporting requirements, it's up to you deal with that situation by putting your bike on a trailer, carrying less passengers, whatever...

 

As I understand it, you have a sponsorship 'package' that includes a motorhome suitable for carrying out your motorcycle racing activities. Pre-purchase, it's likely you would have discussed with Southdowns sales staff what these activities entailed regarding the size/weight of the bike, the number of people who would normally travel in the motorhome, etc. Assuming that was the case, if you've now ended up with a motorhome that can't legally or physically meet those requirements, or can do so only by seriously compromising how you had anticipated using it, then I see that as the vendor's responsibility not yours.

 

Obviously you need to discuss the 'tyre-rubbing' noise with Southdowns without delay, and also whether the motorhome you've been sold has sufficient load-carrying capacity for your needs. Where you go from there will depend on their reaction.

 

If you feel there is any possibility you might want to reject the Europeo, then it might be wise not to discuss the matter in detail on an internet forum that anyone (including the motorhome dealer) has easy access to. Your choice of course...

[Brian Kirby]

Well spotted Derek!  Interesting it is also claimed to be a special development between Southdowns and Rimor, for exactly this kind of use!  Didn't go into all the details, but the standard 747 is on a 4,500Kg chassis which seems much more realistic for Keith's needs.  However, it costs £45,000!

Only he will know if he bought what he could afford, and will have to live within its limitations, or whether he was, in effect, mis-sold and should have been steered towards the "Racehome".

I don't think the motorhome Keith has is any better, or worse, that any other comparable motorhome would be.  Rimors seem genarally quite well reputed and, within a 3,500Kg limit, the same problems would be liable to arise with any make.

Larger, heavier, more expensive, vans of any make would probably do equally as well as the Racehome genarally but, as that claims to have been developed for Keith's intended use, it does seem potentially the ideal match.

I agree with your advice for Keith to be careful what he puts on this site.  I did think it a little rash posting the text of his letter.  I don't think this issue will be resolved any quicker by using megaphone tactics.  It needs patience, civility, diplomacy and quiet negotiation. 

I'd add that until the matter is resolved, Keith might be well advised to leave the van at home.  He's publically admitted he knows it is illegal to use it on UK roads due the the speedometer, so if stopped for speeding he'll have no defence whatever.  I think he has also now declared he may have been overloaded, so if he was stopped by the police and checked (quite likely if the tail seemed close to dragging along the ground!), and that slipped out somehow, he'd also be in the soup for that!

[Derek Uzzell]

Out of curiosity I took a look at UNECE Regulation No.39 that deals with vehicle speedometers. This says:

 

"5.1. The display of the speedometer must be located within the direct field of view of the driver and must be clearly legible both day and night. The range of speeds displayed must be sufficiently wide to include the maximum speed of this type of vehicle as stated by the manufacturer.

 

5.1.1. In the case of speedometers intended for vehicles of categories M, N, and L3, L4 and L5, the graduation shall be 1, 2, 5 or 10 km/h. The numerical values of the speed shall be indicated on the display as follows: when the highest value on the display does not exceed 200 km/h, speed values shall be indicated at intervals not exceeding 20 km/h. When the maximum value on the display exceeds 200 km/h, then the speed values shall be indicated at intervals not exceeding 30 km/h. The indicated numerical speed value intervals need not be uniform.

 

5.1.2. In the case of vehicles manufactured for sale in any country where imperial units are used, the speedometer shall also be marked in miles per hour (mph); the graduations shall be of 1, 2, 5 or 10 mph. The values of the speed shall be indicated on the dial at intervals not exceeding 20 mph and commencing at 10 or 20 mph. The indicated speed value intervals need not be uniform."

 

It appears from this that a km/h-marked speedometer is considered the 'norm', meaning that every vehicle covered by this Regulation must have a speedometer able to provide speed information in km/h. However, a speedometer must ALSO have a mph scale when the vehicle is manufactured for sale in countries using imperial units (ie. miles). This explains why speedometers on LHD 'Continental' motorhomes are km/h-only and why RHD motorhomes, built in the UK or on the Continent, have speedometers with km/h AND mph scales. The fact that the RHD vehicles traditionally (and logically) have the mph markings as the major scale is something of a red herring - it's the minor km/h scale that's the basic regulatory requirement.

 

As Burstner620 said earlier, numeric mph markings on a speedometer can be at 20mph intervals. But there is also a requirement for intermediate graduations at 10mph (or smaller) intervals and this will complicate DIY modification of a km/h-only speedometer if you want to be strictly legal.