Ducato 2.8JTD / 2001 possibly died - advice needed: replacement or repair?

[jmpecador]

Hi everyone,

 

Sadly our beloved (Burstner T603) motorhome's engine appears dead.

 

It is a 2.8JTD

 

Driving a long the M6, then suddenly a loud bang, some rattling a lot of smoke and engine died, and seized / locked up. At first I thought a tyre had blown.

 

But it wasn't.

 

After towing it to a service station the AA mechanic said it had died because it had no oil. Although two hours earlier when setting off the engine oil was at max., it was now at min.

 

When I insisted that it had oil when we left and that it had not run hot at all, no oil pressure lamp prior to the incident etc., he suggested that "the turbo had blown, sucked out the oil, and killed the engine".

 

There was indeed a huge cloud of grey/blue smoke coming out of the exhaust. The engine otherwise looks as usual.

 

Now what to do?

 

Can it be repaired?

 

Must we find a replacement engine?

 

Who to turn to? What to do next?

 

Advice very welcome and gratefully received,

 

cheers

[buddy]

The turbo having blown could have drawn the oil out the engine sump ,as said ,and this would cause the engine to rattle and lock up but may also have caused other damage. The engine will need to be checked and a decision made whether to repair or replace it depending on the findings.

If you could add your location someone local may be able to suggest a workshop/garage able to help and advise you when it is checked out for possible damage.

[EJB]

Worth a visit :-

 

https://www.fiatforum.com/ducato/

[StuartO]

Your MH is still worth over £20,000 when repaired so it will definitely be an economic prospect to get the repairs done. First identify a reasonably local garage capable and willing to do the job and take their advice about repair or replace the engine. It must be possible to find a good used 2.8 JTD engine somewhere if the existing engine is a lost cause. Good luck.

[teccer1234]

not sure if this helps but years ago I drove through a flooded road in spain maybe 1ft deep but on the hymer 554 the air inlet was down at drive shaft level and it sucked up water blew the turbo, damaged the injectors and bent all 4 piston rods got taken to a Fiat garage near Mar Menor, they repaired/replaced everything, took 4 weeks (over xmas period) and charged 3500 euros, all ok after

also they rerouted the air intake so it wouldn't happen again

 

[mtravel]

I am not an expert in mechanics but it seems strange to me that a turbocharger can suck all the oil from the crankcase.

Never heard of it on a Ducato 2.8Jtd but on other engines (not just Fiat) I remember that the breakage of the brake servo pump membrane could have caused it.

Result, kilos of oil disappeared within minutes (if not seconds).

 

In any case, this type of engine has had a wide diffusion and it should not be difficult to find one used and even refurbished.

Here on the continent, depending on the damage, a refurbished one should be priced between 3,000 and 5,000 euros.

Have you tried to hear from a Fiat workshop?

 

Max

[Tracker]

Many towns have a good independent commercial garage/workshop/service establishment and I would seek help and advice from them rather than a probably very expensive main dealer, especially for an older vehicle.

[mtravel]

Tracker - 2021-07-20 2:41 PM

 

Many towns have a good independent commercial garage/workshop/service establishment and I would seek help and advice from them rather than a probably very expensive main dealer, especially for an older vehicle.

Of course.

I meant that the brand's service can give you the official price (new or refurbished) and based on that you can compare alternatives.

[jimbo07g41]

mtravel - 2021-07-20 1:09 PM

 

I am not an expert in mechanics but it seems strange to me that a turbocharger can suck all the oil from the crankcase.

Never heard of it on a Ducato 2.8Jtd but on other engines (not just Fiat) I remember that the breakage of the brake servo pump membrane could have caused it.

Result, kilos of oil disappeared within minutes (if not seconds).

 

In any case, this type of engine has had a wide diffusion and it should not be difficult to find one used and even refurbished.

Here on the continent, depending on the damage, a refurbished one should be priced between 3,000 and 5,000 euros.

Have you tried to hear from a Fiat workshop?

 

Max

 

I would see if the engine turns over by turning the crank by hand (ignore this bit just seen it is seized). Sounds like you might have done major damage to the engine. Sounds like turbo bearing, seal failure and if the bits get into the sump they can destroy the engine. You have a feed and a return pipe on a turbo engine. If the strainer in the sump gets blocked the turbo will starve itself of oil and it will destroy itself.

 

Your best bet would be a remanufactured engine. You will need a new turbo and feed and return. etc etc. Tends to be bottom end when a turbo goes so rebuild of your own engine will be expensive.

[jmpecador]

buddy - 2021-07-19 10:57 AM

If you could add your location someone local may be able to suggest a workshop/garage able to help and advise you when it is checked out for possible damage.

Thanks - we're near Lancaster in the North West.

 

If anyone knows a reliable and capable garage for this type of work in the area, then please let us know,

 

thanks also to everyone else who gave useful comments and advice,

 

greatly appreciated

[mikefitz]

I would contact,

https://www.lancasterengines.co.uk/

They may be able to direct you to someone who can remove the engine and establish what failed and what damage has occurred within the engine.

Once this has been carried a decision as how to proceed can be made.

 

the options are, (a) obtain a complete SH engine with all ancillaries, (b) rebuild the existing engine, © obtain a 're manufactured ' bare engine.

 

SH engines seem to be available for under £1000, however the condition is unknown so its a big risk fitting without a complete overall.

Re manufactured engines from a reputable company will just consist of the block and cylinder head assembly, all the ancillaries will need to be transferred from the old engine. ( or replaced with new parts, for example the turbo)

 

Whatever option you follow there will be high labour costs involved.

 

Mike

[vino]

Mine blew up on M62

Found a Peugeot boxer engine which fitted

 

[Brian Kirby]

The circumstances of this failure rang a bell for previous incidents I remembered reading about, but I couldn't remember the details so asked a knowledgeable and reliable acquaintance if he could take a look and say what he thought.

 

He doesn't want to comment directly, but offered the following:

 

"I have had a look at the item in question and can say with no hesitation at all that the turbo seals have failed and the oil has become fuel for a short time until it ran out and the engine seized. I have no doubt at all that the engine can be remanufactured on an exchange basis. There are many suppliers out there but the only one that I can recommend (having used them myself) is Ivor Searle. They are based in Cambs.

 

There are undoubtedly used engines available but the likelihood of finding one with a reasonably low mileage and with a guarantee is very small. If you buy an engine and have it fitted and it then fails or is just not as good as you expected, you will have to pay someone to remove it and fit another one! This takes 18 or so hours to do. It gets expensive. Get a fully reconditioned/guaranteed engine and have done with it.

 

The Turbo will also need to be reconditioned; again an exchange basis is the norm. There are reconditioners of turbochargers all over the UK. Many of them are very good. I would stick to one supplied by a major motor factor; ideally arranged by whoever you have do the engine replacement.

 

The same goes for the engine. Get a garage that you trust to arrange the engine and the turbo. Because of the size of the vehicle and the amount of work involved, many smaller workshops that can accommodate the job may be less than keen because they won't be able to do much else while the motorhome occupies valuable ramp space.

 

You may find that if you approach a truck specialist; even a large, franchised one, they may offer a lower hourly labour rate than expected. Get an estimate of the costs including labour, parts and fluids before you give the go ahead.

 

Expect it to be more difficult and expensive because it always is. The costs will always increase. There are always surprises. The intake pipework and exhaust system will need to be cleaned out, for instance. They are currently full of oil."

 

I hope this may be of some use to you.

 

[jmpecador]

 

Thanks a lot for that, very helpful!

[electric billy boy]

Hi having worked on theses engines for over 30 years its very easy to jump to conclusions without all the facts? did the engine try to rev up just before it failed? did the smoke appear before the engine stopped? if a turbo fails and draws the oil from the sump the engine power increases first and then once the oil has beeen removed it then fails, most damage is caused to the pistons and crankshaft and unfortantley on 8140 engines they can snap the valve.

 

the upside of the 8140 engine it is very strong. Ask your garage has the timing belt snapped if it has remove the head and check the bores this is all bread and butter to a good garage. get some pictures of the damage then take it from there.

 

i would be happy to look at the pics.

 

hope this helps

[Brian Kirby]

jmpecador - 2021-07-25 2:04 PM

Thanks a lot for that, very helpful!

You may find parts of this older string informative for background, if not always very encouraging. It would be worth reading from the beginning. It includes a quite detailed description of the damage to, and repair of, a damaged diesel engine. https://tinyurl.com/nt3nnfhd Not a Fiat engine, but it will give an insight into what may be required, and what people are talking about.

 

It may also be worth doing a search on the forum using the search term turbo seal and entering euroserv as the author. You will find among others a series of posts by Nick Fisher (euroserv) who is a technical contributor to MMM and at the time of his posts ran a fleet of hire Ducatos - in the course of which he became extremely knowledgeable on their mechanicals as a result of undertaking many repairs at his hire base. The more serious defects he "farmed out" to trusted workshops, and his comments mention a few of those. Hope this helps. Also several posts from aandncaranan (the late Allan Evans) which may be informative.