Fixed rear double bed you can walk around

[Hazel]

My partner and I are planning a 2 year touring trip from spring 2008. We own a VW high top Bilbo's conversion and will be selling it to buy a second hand motorhome.

 

Any good advice re; best make/model for comfort and best use of space along with 'essential' fittings, would be most welcome.

 

I am in my mid fifties and my partner is early sixties. This will be a big 'scary' adventure and one we have been talking about doing for years but the 'rat race' kept us down. Now my partner has taken early retirement and we plan to rent out our home in Guernsey to help finance the trip.

 

We are starting off in the UK and Ireland as we have barely scratched its surface. We plan to move over to Spain for the wintertime and tour France through spring and summer of the second year.

 

I am looking for a motorhome that has a fixed rear double bed that you can walk around rather than having to scrabble over each other everytime we need to get in or out of bed.

 

There is a french make NOTIN ORLANDO that has this type of set up but I have not come accross any other make doing this.

 

Also I want to be able to close off the rear 'bedroom' so that it is a room in its own right rather than having the bed poking out into the living area. If one of us is unwell or just wants a sleep in the day, then a seperate room with some privacy is needed.

 

I welcome ALL constructive help and advice especially if you have travelled or are travelling at present.

 

I would welcome advice as to what sort of 'income' is needed to sustain a moderately comfortable travelling life. We are hoping that £1,000 per month will get us around the UK and continent.

 

Whilst on site I am planning to suppliment our coffers by offer manicures/massages/facials/waxing at low cost to other campers. Do you think this would be a welcome service amongst the ladies? (or men)

 

Lots of questions but desperate for answers

 

[Mel E]

The Italian Giotti Line has an island layout on one model, but it's a terrible waste of space! Giottis are very upmarket (i.e., expensive) and are designed by the man who used to do all the design for Mobilvetta. Also, Frankia have a layout for the front, cab bed in their A-Class which may meet your needs.

 

For real choice of island bed, you'll have to go for a Yank RV (Recreational Vehicle), but you've got to be willing to drive a huge vehicle around, and be refused entry to quite a lot of camp sites because of size. And, for my money, RVs waste huge amounts of space simple because they've got it and can afford to.

 

If you're new to the world of motorhomes, avoid fixating on any one specific. You'll find in practice that you soon actually like features you didn't want at first!

 

Mel E

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[Brisey]

The new Swift Kontiki tag axle model has an island bed. It is their new top of the range model and is not cheap by any means. As it is a brand new 2007 design vehicle you will not find one on the second hand market for quite a while. Best option is to go for an american RV, however you may find that your driving license will not cover you for this weight of vehicle.

[Mel E]

I forgot to add that Notin are a tiny French converter with very out-of-date body styles. And expensive. My advice is to stay well clear if you have any concerns about future resale values.

 

Mel E

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[Brian Kirby]

Have a look also at the Pilote Aventura (A class) G 730 DC. 

However, I think your biggest problem will be finding the layout you want, when you want it, on the secondhand market.  You may get lucky, bit I think you'll have to accept compromise somewhere if you're ever to get going.  These are newish layouts, mostly on fairly large and expensive vans, and the numbers bought have not, to date, been that great.  Second hand, hen's teeth come to mind!

I think you may be overlooking several factors that are, frankly, more important for what you want to do.  First is payload.  For a two year trip you'll need to carry quite a lot more in the way of of bedding and clothing than for a normal holiday.  Plan on needing around 600Kg of payload, but be careful that you have understood how the manufacturer's payload calculation has been done.

Second, if you want to explore, be aware that large vans and out of the way places can be a (very) breathtaking mix!

Third, if you are adamant about the island bed, because this layout creates vans in the region of 7+ metres length, and therefore with higher than average MIRO, you'll almost certainly need to go for a van with an MAM exceeding 3,500Kg.  This, in turn, has its side effects.  First you may not have the appropriate driving licences.  Second, you'll be restricted to lower road speeds and, in some cases, higher tolls.  Third, your range of appropriate vans has just got smaller again, because the standard product from most manufacturers is aimed at Mr & Mrs average, for whom 3,500Kg is deemed adequate!

For the island bed, I think, short of extreme good luck, you'll probably end up having to buy new, specifying an up-rated chassis, so will need to allow 3+ months for delivery.

I suppose what I'm really saying is that you seem to be at some risk of choosing your van before you've fully explored exactly where, and how, you'll use it.  For example will you take bikes, a motor scooter, or tow a car, for your day to day transport?  If you want to use the van for day to day transport, I do think you'll need a much smaller van, or you'll risk finding you can't get the van to where you want to be.  Parking 'vans can be a BIG problem in town and cities.

[Randonneur]

Just as an aside, we recently saw a new Notin on an aire at Millau, it was beautiful. A motorhome/caravan repairer in our nearest large town reckons that Notin are the best that France produces. Having said that ours is a Rapido.

[Dave Newell]

Does it have to be a double bed or could you cope with two singles? I ask because yesterday I had a look at an Auto Trail Miami on the new Renault chassis. The front half is a lounge area with a reasonable sized L shaped kitchen then you have a double bedroom but with two singles rather than one double and thew bathroom across the rear of the van. The bedroom and bathroom are separated from the living area by solid doors so privacy is there. I accept you said you'd be looking for a second hand model and the Miami is a new model but it could be worth a look.

 

D.

[icdsun]

Hazel

 

We have seen a model a few weeks back by Le Voyageur which has an electric bed that is a sofa during the day and a island bed for sleeping it was a used model at Hayes Leisure in Wednesbury, I believe Le Voyageur will make a MH to your spec

 

Chris

[olley]

Hi if you must have a fixed bed you can walk around then an RV is your only sensible choice. :-D

 

Doesn't have to be a big one, they go from about 24' up, 30' plus are more common through. Plenty of C class in the under 7.5 tonne range, so ok for pre 1997 licence holders.

 

Olley

[Mel B]

I concur with Dave, I'd suggest you have a look at some of the twin rear single bed ones to give you the move-around space you want. There are some that have been on the market for a few years so you should be able to pick up second hand ones, I think Pilote did one but can't remember the other makes at the mo! Sorry.

 

[Hazel]

Good morning Brian.

 

Your information is very helpful and I take on board the need to be flexible about the bed layout.

 

Indeed, I agree that we do not want a vehicle over 21 or 22 ft in length or we will have to take a driving test. Here in Guernsey the motor tax dept can be quite fickle about the need for a test. I will check this out.

 

We plan to use electric bycycles for day to day use. We are starting out travels by sailing to England and spending 6 months or more in the UK incorporating a trip to Northern Ireland to visit our daughter. Some touring in NI and Republic too.

 

We may head down to Spain for the winter and meander up through France during our 2nd year.

 

We do want to be able to negotiate smaller roads as we love countryside and the more remote places.

 

I confess we have not made a firm itinery but we want to be flexible. Who knows what we may find along the way.

 

The bed issue is simply because we did not want the hassle of making up a bed every night and also, if one of us was unwell, they could go to bed and have the door shut and get some peace and privacy.

 

The alternative will be a U shaped rear lounge which will give us more daytime space.

 

The trouble with being stuck on an island 9 miles by 4 miles is that we cannot just get in the car and go to dealers or even to look at private sales advertised in the mags.

 

We will have to make a special trip to England and look at the dealers in the South. A private sale would probably be a more economical option but we are nervous of being sold a 'pup' with no 'come back'.

 

I don't know if you can advise us as to the wherabouts of reliable dealers in the South / Southwest of England or if you know of any vans being privately sold that may suit us.

 

Our budget is about £20,000 but might stretch to a little bit more given the right vehicle.

 

You know about our rear bed configuration ( I accept an island bed will be virtually impossible).

 

Some of the things we would want to have;

 

2.8TD/heating(love to have deisel heating as in our current camper)/hot water/hob/grill(not bothered about full oven) full sized 3 way fridge with freezer bit/loo preferably separate from shower but at least able to screen off the shower so as not to soak the loo/awning/bike rack/alarm/radio CD/ air con/roof ladder and roof suitable for a top box.

 

I am sure you will think of somethings I have not even thought of!

 

Any, and I mean any, help and advice will be most welcome.

 

 

As an aside, we have a budget of £1,000 per month to keep us on the road. Do you think this is realistic? Our pleasures are simple (non smokers/drinkers) and we prefer home cooking only eating out at a coffee shop stop occassionally.

 

We have 2 Border Terriers and love walking them.

 

Hazel

 

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

Hazel

What you are asking is, in reality, a very open ended series of questions.

Some of the answers are quite simple, however.  Island double bed in van under 6.25 metres long?  Not that I'm aware of.

Don't know about Guernsey driving licences, but in most of Europe it is weight that determines what licence you need, not length.  The general cut off is 3,500Kg.  Heavier than that, but depending when you passed your test, you may need to take a further test.

Most motorhomes will weigh around 2,750Kg, or more, "empty".  I'd guess you'll need around 600 - 650Kg of "stuff" for your long trip.  That will leave only 100Kg to play with, which is very little when you heven't chosen your van!  Electric bikes are fine, but you'll need to weigh them, and probably subtract their weight from that remaining 100Kg.

Smaller roads may be problematic for a conventional width van, generally around 2.3 metres + mirrors.  Overall, they tend to run out at around 2.9 metres.  Isn't there a width restriction on Guernsey?  This may restrict you somewhat more than length.  We've met a couple of Guernsey motorhomers.  Both, I think, had Autosleepers; because they tend to be narrower than most of the continental 'vans.

For maximum flexibility of travel you need small, not big!

The one van that would seem to suit your requirement almost exactly, would be a Dethleffs Globebus 3, but the A Class version.  However, it is a new model and you won't get one in right, or left, hand drive form for £20K!  More like twice that if you buy in UK!  Drop down bed over the cab and U shaped lounge in the rear.  Small kitchen, and little space for a grill.  However, if bought in UK, you'll have the option of a small oven with grill.

For dealers, I'd suggest you get MMM and start your research there.  From a practical standpoint, I'd think finding a dealership you can easily reach, and then looking at what they have to offer, would be best.

From a financial standpoint, your money would almost certainly go further if you buy in France, which is, in any case, closer to Guernsey.  Dealers around St Malo?  Cotes-d'Armor (22) or Ille-et-Vilaine (35).  Hobby, Rapido  and Knaus at Masters "Bonjour Caravaning": l'Hermitage de Orgieres (35), www.masters-france.com, Dethleffs and Knaus at Michel Caravanes, Pommeret (22).  Reason?  Dethleffs, Knaus and Hobby all make 'vans between 2070 and 2150 wide. 

Dethleffs has seven bites at the cherry with three versions of the low profile coachbuilt Globebus (as well as three versions of the A Class Globebus mentioned above) and a Globevan, plus Knaus and Hobby both make models called "Van". 

The characteristic common to all is a transverse rear bed mounted above a "garage", but the Dethleffs Globebus, in both low profile and A Class variants, also offers U shaped lounge (which converts to a double bed in the low profile version), and longitudinal bed, versions.  I believe all are 3,500Kg max weight with fairly realistic payloads.  They are all sufficiently compact to go pretty well anywhere, but all are new models for 2007, so unlikely to be available secondhand.  Mix of Fiat and Ford bases. 

Have a look at the websites, but be aware that if you switch to the English language versions you'll only see the UK ranges, options and prices.  French or German will give you the full picture.  You may be surprised how much cheaper they are in France, but I'm afraid you'll find the Globebuses cost between 40-50K Euros, the Globevan around 40K Euros, ditto Hobby Van, Knaus Van 40/45K Euros.  You should get a discount from those figures, but your budget will still need at least an extra £5K input.  However, you may wish to consider this option when you see what you can get for your £20K in UK, and then begin to consider how well it may withstand your proposed European tour.

Hope this helps.

[oorgiz]

Hi Hazel. The bad news is £20,000 buys not very much in the motorhome world, thats not to say there isn't anything out there for that money but if you could take a few days on the mainland touring as many dealers as you can, you will soon find that what you think you can get and whats actually available are two different things..

As an example a 10 year old (good condition) 24ft half decent spec but not top of the range coach built on 2.5 td can easy cost £24,000 +.

 

I like many others thought that £10k would get something half decent, that thought went out my head after 30 seconds on a dealers forecourt, in the end I doubled that + 50% and it was still 9 years old!

 

good luck and happy hunting.

[grocer jack]

Like you we are also intending to fulltime and also want an island bed! Aside from american there is nothing out there, second hand, with an island bed, you will have to buy new. Research is important. Buy all the magazines and then get all the manufacturers brochures you can. Think carefully about how you live now and if there are things that are important. Decide whether you can compromise as you will have to. For example, we read a lot in bed, drinking tea and eating biscuits. A transverse bed may not have a headboard, do you want to lean against a window? Are there shelves or similar where you can put your tea cup, book, glasses, watch etc. If these things are truly important to you can you do without them? Maybe for two weeks holiday, but for 6 months or more it will be very annoying! Can you re-work the way you live now so that your motorhome does not become an enemy? For example, we like to watch TV with our legs on a stool or similar. Not much room for a stool so we will use the bedroom for such activities. Think carefully how you live now, as I said, and try to re-work things to suit your new home.

Good luck. :-)

[supermint29]

:-D

We have a Machzone Supermint which was built with an island bed as aone of a kind by Machzone. It is currently for sale on Ebay and will be in the next issue of MMM. We bought this for the island bed and also the huge payload.Please have a look. You cannot see to many vans before you make a decision that could seriously affect your wealth. :-D

[Pat]

Hi I have an American LHD 26' Tffin Allegro 6.5 turbo diesel with walk around fixed bed and can get on most UK sites and it weighs under 7.5 tonnes.

 

Regards Pat