Safefill Installed like Gaslow?

[Cattwg]

I want to add a second leisure battery, an inverter and possibly a second solar panel to our Adria Twin. So, to free-up necessary payload I am considering replacing our Calor bottles with two 7.5 kg Safefill gas bottles. I calculate about a 10kg saving on our current pair of Calor bottles.

Question: is it feasible to install Safefill bottles in a similar configuration to the Gasit and Gaslow installations? This would enable me to refill without removing the bottles. Hence, I get the best of both worlds – a reduction in weight (my main objective) and the convenience of not having to manhandle the bottles. I would also be able to refill the bottles off the vehicle if the need ever arose.

Although the Safefill website illustrates Continental adaptors there doesn’t seem to be any means of connecting two bottles and then leading off to a refill point – in a similar fashion to Gasit and Gaslow.

Any thoughts?

Cattwg :-D

[Steve H]

Safefill bottles have one connector. It's used to both fill the cylinder and provide gas for the appliance/vehicle. So you cannot use them in the same way as a Gaslow cylinder. These have both fill and 'supply to appliance' points. I made the very expensive mistake myself. Having purchased two Safefill cylinders I discovered that they were no use to me, and so then had the added expense of buying Gaslow's.

[Derek Uzzell]

This 2016 forum discussion may be helpful

 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Safefill-gas-cylinder-remote-filler/45939/

 

(Some of the links and information may be out of date by now.)

 

For weight saving, Alugas bottles might be considered - though their current availability in the UK seems iffy.

 

https://www.practicalmotorhome.com/advice/how-to-fit-refillable-aluminium-gas-bottles

[witzend]

Cattwg - 2021-08-18 11:24 AM

,

to free-up necessary payload I am considering replacing our Calor bottles with two 7.5 kg Safefill gas bottles. I calculate about a 10kg saving on our current pair of Calor bottles.

 

 

Why not just have one gaslow bottle that would save a lot of weight. You can top it up as often as you like so no chance of running out. I can never understand having 2 refillable when you only use one at a time

[Cattwg]

“Thank you” to those who have already replied to my (fanciful?) question.

I did not realise that the input / output of the Safefill bottle was the main obstacle to my idea. Looks like I’ll have to be content with two stand alone Safefill bottles, “c'est la vie”.

 

We need two bottles. We tour Europe, often to places where LPG would not be easily available and I really do not want to run out of gas when it’s freezing cold / dinner is half cooked / I’m next to shower!

Cattwg :-D

[Deffheads]

We run a 10kg Safefill and a 6 kg Calor, I have fitted an external filler for the Safefill which can be topped up at any time. The calor is only there for a backup in case the Safefill runs out. It's easy to fit an external filler near the gas box housing.

[Ocsid]

Deffheads - 2021-08-19 6:51 AM

 

We run a 10kg Safefill and a 6 kg Calor, I have fitted an external filler for the Safefill which can be topped up at any time. The calor is only there for a backup in case the Safefill runs out. It's easy to fit an external filler near the gas box housing.

I am interested how this can be safely done. Can you please detail your "modus operandi" for switching between filling and using modes?

 

The main issue I see is that the filler pipework must be charged with gas directly post filling, so can't be simply uncoupled without venting off a significant volume of gas, what is it about 600 times, the pipes liquid capacity.

 

Together with this, if it is a simple vented filler pipe extension, then inevitably the air trapped in that filler pipework must get pushed into the Safefill bottle on filling; is that safe?

 

Have you introduced an extra valve, NRV or isolator, to trap and retain the pressurised LPG in the filler section to address these two issues specific to repurposing a Safefill bottle in this remote fill mode?

[Derek Uzzell]

The ‘merits’ of Safefill gas bottles are explained here

 

https://www.lodgefarmleisure.com/safefill-lpg.html

 

I remember when the Safefill bottles were first exhibited at an NEC show. I discussed the product with the exhibitor who told me that the bottles were primarily aimed at the UK caravan market (rather than the motorhome market) as caravanners were much less likely to be concerned about ‘remote filling’ than motorhome owners and much more concerned about saving a few kgs of weight.

 

At that time Safefill was considering offering bespoke exterior labelling for their bottles (eg. for a caravan club) though that idea was was never taken forwards. I expressed doubt about the bottle’s inlet-valve design that required specialised (and expensive) adapters for refilling outside the UK/Netherlands and, some years later, the design was changed.

 

There are other user-refillable composite-construction gas bottles and at least one is designed so that a remote filling point can be installed. This is the Gas-Bank 11kg Multivalve bottle shown here

 

https://www.gas-bank.com/

 

The MULTI bottle is advertised here (£252.99)

 

https://www.lpgshop.co.uk/motorhome-leisure-gas/

 

but - like most of the other user-refillable bottles on the webpage - is shown as being out of stock. (I’m not aware of any other UK retailer of this bottle.)

 

There are many online videos showing how to refill Safefill bottles, but (as far as I’m aware) none showing refilling via a remote filling-point.

 

https://tinyurl.com/fwab5za8

[Derek Uzzell]

The attached image shows a pair of Gas-Bank ‘non-MULTI’ bottles with a hose arrangement that includes a remote filler. As I understand it, the system relies on the filler having a non-return valve and a manually-operated valve permits switching between filling the bottles and delivery of gas from the bottles.

 

I guess something similar could be done for Safefill bottles.

[Brian Kirby]

Cattwg - 2021-08-18 11:24 AM

I want to add a second leisure battery, an inverter and possibly a second solar panel to our Adria Twin. So, to free-up necessary payload I am considering replacing our Calor bottles with two 7.5 kg Safefill gas bottles. I calculate about a 10kg saving on our current pair of Calor bottles.................................Cattwg :-D

Not an answer to the question you asked, but assuming your Adria is plated at 3.5 tonnes, this seems a somewhat complicated (and expensive) way to save less than 0.3% of your actual laden weight! I think 10kg is less than the permissible difference between two different weighbridges weighing the same vehicle on the same day in the same load state.

 

Have you reviewed all the items you carry to see if a) you actually need them, and b) if lighter versions might be available at lower cost than your present proposal? Could you even travel with 10l less water?

 

However, as you mainly use your van outside the UK, and apparently spend extensive time off grid, you seem to be limiting your endurance by sticking to Calor cylinders. It wouldn't reduce your weight, but might it be preferable to replace one the the Calors with, for example, a French exchange cylinder, so that you can more easily replace whatever runs out? Then, if the Calor becomes empty while away, your French reserve cylinder can be exchanged (at least while in France, where I guess most of your trips begin/end).

 

There is also the little matter of the reported diminishing availability of LPG at filling stations, with Total now reportedly refusing refills for domestic gas purposes, which it seems possible others may follow as countries seek to de-carbonise.

 

Final thought, I believe the 6.36M camper conversions are commonly built on the "heavy" chassis (with its higher permissible axle loads) so, if your licence allows, would it be practical to re-plate the van above 3.5tonnes and so increase your payload?

[Deffheads]

The Safefill bottle can be filled by connection direct to the bottle, however some fuel stations don't allow opening the gas locker to fill, so that's when I connect via the external point. Your right about the escaping gas from the pipe, I just make sure that nobody is smoking near me when disconnecting.

 

[Cattwg]

Brian Kirby - 2021-08-19 9:17 AM

Have you reviewed all the items you carry

 

It wouldn't reduce your weight, but might it be preferable to replace one the the Calors with, for example, a French exchange cylinder, so that you can more easily replace whatever runs out?

 

There is also the little matter of the reported diminishing availability of LPG at filling stations,

 

would it be practical to re-plate the van above 3.5tonnes and so increase your payload?

 

Brian, thank you for your, as ever informative, posts. Gas Bank looks to be a Polish company. Their website lists no retailers in the UK. I can see that more thought/research is required

 

Thank you for your thoughts Brian but I had the ‘van weighed recently and despite paring our paraphernalia and water, it was quite close to it’s 3500kg maximum. The recently purchased electric bikes don’t help! And as said I want to add more electrical gear.

Apart from payload considerations I’m sure the Calor bottles are getting heavier in direct proportion to my aging. :-S So, manhandling lighter bottles would be very welcome. Hence ‘Continental’ bottles would not ameliorate the situation.

The growing reluctance of garages to stock LPG is, I agree a consideration, so another fly to put into the ointment.

Re-plating is not a viable option.

John :-D

[Derek Uzzell]

Cattwg - 2021-08-19 12:36 PM

 

...I’m sure the Calor bottles are getting heavier in direct proportion to my aging. :-S So, manhandling lighter bottles would be very welcome. Hence ‘Continental’ bottles would not ameliorate the situation...

 

That’s not necessarily the case. For example the Butagaz “Le Cube” container is probably the most widely available French gas bottle, comes in propane or butane format and is made of ‘plastic’ material.

 

The capacity and weights are

 

Propane - 5kg of gas: average empty weight 7.70kg: average full weight 12.70kg.

 

Butane - 6kg of gas: average empty weight 7.00kg: average full weight 13.00kg.

 

Details on this old MHFun advert, though (according to Butagaz) the weight is as I’ve said above.

 

https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/classifieds/lightweight-french-butagaz-le-cube-propane-gas-5kg-container-full-with-regulator-and-hose.244/

 

Lightweight 10kg-capacity composite-construction gas bottles are also marketed in France (Butagaz “Viseo”, Antargaz “Calypso”, Totalgaz “Shesha”). These are aimed at ‘household’ usage and, consequently, hold butane only.