empress Posted April 14, 2007 Share Posted April 14, 2007 As we were having our service now, we decided to get the MOT done at the same time, although it is not due until 1st May. Good decision! We failed. We had a phone call from the garage to say that it had failed because the lights are set incorrectly, i.e. for the Continent LH vehicles. We had bought the van second-hand about 18 months ago and had had work done by Rapido in Wokingham and a service at another local garage in the meantime. No problems mentioned. The original owner had purchased it from Rapido and had never taken it abroad. Why had this lighting situation not been discovered at the time of the PDI check? Our garage said we might need new lights, but we rang Rapido who said the settings could be changed. They rang our garage with instructions as to what to do. In the event, they were able to sort it and the MOT Test was passed some the next day. We only had to pay the one fee as we had left the van with them. Our garage is Manchetts of Burwell, Cambridgeshire (CB5 0AA - Phone 01638744538). We cannot speak highly enough of the assistance received from them in solving what could have been a disastrous situation. Empress :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted April 14, 2007 Share Posted April 14, 2007 Well, it shouldn't have been that disasterous. When you collect it, just tell than that a set of beam benders, or masks, would have fixed the problem equally well, and is legally acceptable for MoT purposes. They should have known this, and now they will!New headlamps! What were they thinking of? Hmmmmmmmmmm. Begins with "P"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest starspirit Posted April 14, 2007 Share Posted April 14, 2007 That may be a bit harsh Brian? Maybe the garage is experienced in MOT's but not in the complexities and subtleties of individual headlight design - well who is without that experience? At least they listened and acted properly and all credit to them for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyishuk Posted April 14, 2007 Share Posted April 14, 2007 empress - 2007-04-14 11:37 AM Our garage said we might need new lights, but we rang Rapido who said the settings could be changed. They rang our garage with instructions as to what to do. In the event, they were able to sort it and the MOT Test was passed some the next day. We only had to pay the one fee as we had left the van with them. :-D A Worrying time. Was that Rapido, Wokingham (Always found them helpful) or Brownhills ? But the thought occures to me if the lights can be readjusted back to continental use. Or If (as I have) a RHD Rapido, if the lights can be altered for continental use. Although convincing the local gendarmary might be a different matter. Rgds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest starspirit Posted April 14, 2007 Share Posted April 14, 2007 But the thought occures to me if the lights can be readjusted back to continental use. Or If (as I have) a RHD Rapido, if the lights can be altered for continental use. Although convincing the local gendarmary might be a different matter. Rgds If the handbook says the lights can be switched, and you can show him how, that should be enough for Le Plod Francais - peut etre? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted April 14, 2007 Share Posted April 14, 2007 But I didn't actually say they should have known how to adjust the headlights to dip left, Richard, just that they should have known they could legally be corrected with masks or benders. I'd agree the former would have been hard, but surely not the latter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest starspirit Posted April 14, 2007 Share Posted April 14, 2007 I don't see that it is the MOT tester's responsibility to know whether a headlight only needs a mask or beam bender to be legal? Their only duty is to say whether or not it passes, and if not why not, and to provide the logical solution which in their view was correct side dipping light units. Resolution of the problem is the owners responsibility and I don't think you can expect any MOT tester to know all about beam benders and continental adjustment etc when more than likely they have never had to deal with this issue before? Common sense prevailed, the easy solution was found and they surely will now know next time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted April 14, 2007 Share Posted April 14, 2007 The problem with beam benders is they have to be applied correctly and obviously have to stay on. If empress had fitted them and asked for the MOT to be done I don't know whether or not they would be happy to issue a certificate for something that can be easily removed, I don't know if I would if it was the reputation of my business and my MOT licence at possibly at risk. But then, I could be wrong ....! :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted April 14, 2007 Share Posted April 14, 2007 starspirit - 2007-04-14 5:13 PM I don't see that it is the MOT tester's responsibility to know whether a headlight only needs a mask or beam bender to be legal? Their only duty is to say whether or not it passes, and if not why not, and to provide the logical solution which in their view was correct side dipping light units. Resolution of the problem is the owners responsibility and I don't think you can expect any MOT tester to know all about beam benders and continental adjustment etc when more than likely they have never had to deal with this issue before? Common sense prevailed, the easy solution was found and they surely will now know next time! No, but I did think the tester should probably have known about this, and could have suggested the minimum cost legally acceptable remedy, rather than the more expensive and unnecessary headlight replacement. After all, even suggesting replacement headlights was advice. As you say, all he needed to have done legally was to fail the van for not having left dipping lamps. This link to a tester's manual came out of an earlier post on the same subject. http://www.motuk.co.uk/manual_160.htm Interesting, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan Lee Posted April 14, 2007 Share Posted April 14, 2007 Brian, We have beam benders on our LHD headlights and have got through our MOT's OK, but I am sure I have read somewhere that they are not really legal and that if they cannot be switched over, they should be changed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
empress Posted April 15, 2007 Author Share Posted April 15, 2007 Brian, I think you are being a little harsh - it wasn't the MOT examiner who said we might need new headlamps only the receptionist who warned us this might be the case. No question of taking the p--s! In fact they were very helpful speaking to Rapido Wokingham for their advice. They mainly only deal with HGV tests which may explain why they did not think of beam benders. It had not occured to me that stick on ones would be legal - but then I am only a foolish woman. As it happened all was well and Manchetts were very helpful and their charges for doing our service were most reasonable. Empress Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel E Posted April 15, 2007 Share Posted April 15, 2007 All, Just for the record, the legal position is: - a vehicle with right dipping headlights (i.e. LHD) can legally pass the MoT with beam benders or just tape applied. BUT it is the responsibility of the owner to ensure that the resulting headlight pattern is acceptable. - however, such a vehicle registered in the UK does NOT comply with UK Construction & Use Regulations 1986, so is technically illegal on UK roads. Given the number of foreign vehicles that travel on UK roads without ANY headlamp adjustment (as legally required), it would be harsh if anyone was actually charged with failure to comply with C&U, wouldn't it? But there's probably a jobs worth somewhere . . . Mel E ==== Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel E Posted April 15, 2007 Share Posted April 15, 2007 All, I meant to add: see my note on the post 'LHD Beam Benders' on how to fix LHD headlamps for the UK MoT test. Mel E ==== Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted April 15, 2007 Share Posted April 15, 2007 empress - 2007-04-15 10:14 AM Brian, I think you are being a little harsh - it wasn't the MOT examiner who said we might need new headlamps only the receptionist who warned us this might be the case. No question of taking the p--s! In fact they were very helpful speaking to Rapido Wokingham for their advice. They mainly only deal with HGV tests which may explain why they did not think of beam benders. It had not occured to me that stick on ones would be legal - but then I am only a foolish woman. As it happened all was well and Manchetts were very helpful and their charges for doing our service were most reasonable. Empress Well, the main thing is you're happy. However, had you not checked Manchetts' initial advice, you would have had to fork out £400 unnecessarily for new headlamps. It was the difference between that cost, and the cost of beam benders, that made me thing someone had "P" in mind. Oh, and the "P" in question was profit, not the other stuff!Mel has already touched on the illegality of registration with right dipping lights. I don't know what the insurance position would be. However, anyone who has right dippers, whether MoTd on not, might be advised to check with their insurer, or at least make sure they have this noted on their records, just in case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harvey Posted April 15, 2007 Share Posted April 15, 2007 The big unasked and unanswered question here is what type of Rapido is it? C class with standard Fiat ( or other) cab? A class with 'Rapido' headlamps?: if so what headlamps are they? If the headlamps could be adjusted as suggested then this will be of interest to other 'van owners especially if anyone can say 'how to do it'! :-D Harvey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
empress Posted April 15, 2007 Author Share Posted April 15, 2007 Rapido 966M. No idea what headlamps they are or how to adjust them. But assume Rapido Wokingham or Brownhills can tell one more. Sorry not to be more helpful. Empress Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docted Posted April 15, 2007 Share Posted April 15, 2007 Is Brian perhaps missing a point here. The MOT tester is only checking for a light pattern if that pattern is wrong the test is failed. It is not the testers responsibility to come up with a solution to this problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
empress Posted April 16, 2007 Author Share Posted April 16, 2007 Thanks, docted, that was rather my feeling. And I must say again it was only the receptionist who said we "might" need new headlamps, we were not pushed down that route! I think nuff said now! Empress Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 For a number of years Rapido has, like lots of other motorhome manufacturers, fitted 4 little round Hella-branded headlamps to its A-class designs. It has been mentioned previously on this forum (and in MMM) that the dipped beam produced by this Hella light-unit combination can be modified from a 'driving on the right' (Continental) pattern to a 'driving on the left' (UK) pattern that fully complies with UK MOT requirements. Hella will undoubtedly factory-build these light-units to provide a Continental dipped-beam pattern - in fact the MMM article about a Hella replacement headlamp conversion (referred to in a recent forum thread) reported that this product was set up for LHD vehicles and needed 'tweaking' to produce the requisite UK pattern. This means that any Rapido 9-Series being registered in the UK will have needed its lights fiddled with to achieve a UK-suitable dip. I don't know where this alteration takes place with a new RHD 9-Series - in the Rapido factory in France or in the UK dealer's workshop - but I'm sure that Caravans Rapido at Wokingham could say. I do know that Caravans Rapido used to alter the lights themselves (and replace the complete instrument-cluster) when 9-Series models were only being produced in LHD, because I remember discussing it with them. My recollection is that the procedure is simple enough, but may not be possible with the headlamp-units in situ. Obviously the lights on this particular motorhome should have been correctly adjusted before it was first registered in the UK and it's the original UK vendor's fault that they weren't. If the vendor was Caravans Rapido then I'm sure they would accept this was their responsibility. To the best of my knowledge these small diameter light-units can't be successfully 'masked' or be fitted with beam-benders, so it's perfectly reasonable (if you don't know the lights include an adjustment feature) to suggest that they will need replacement to obtain a UK MOT-acceptable beam pattern. I would be amazed to find anything in Owners' Manuals for motorhomes fitted with these light-units explaining how the beam pattern could be altered! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icelander Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 Agree with Brain that when ever they can the Mot tester should offer advice or perhaps the `specialist' Mot tester will refrain from telling us your windscreen washer does not work because you have run out of water etc etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 icelander - 2007-04-16 10:29 AM Agree with Brain that when ever they can the Mot tester should offer advice or perhaps the `specialist' Mot tester will refrain from telling us your windscreen washer does not work because you have run out of water etc etc From Empress' original post I had the impression their garage had suggested new headlights might be needed to secure an MoT pass, when benders or a mask would have the same effect, legally, for around £5.I thought this sounded unreasonable, and like a potential rip off ploy, and said so. However, it now seems the person making the suggestion was not the tester (who should have known the simplest remedy) and probably wasn't competent to advise and, perhaps more importantly, that Empress is/are now happy.More generally, it seems to have been accepted by a number of dogs on this forum that it is OK for a garage with a servicing workshop, who also carry out MoT testing, to advise such a potentially misleading and expensive remedy (either through their receptionist or otherwise).I beg to differ, and think we should be able to rely upon the expertise of the garage and the tester to give reasonably accurate advice. However, who am I?So, I've now put my white charger back in his stable, taken off my armour, put my lance back in the cupboard, and will duly consider whether to charge off again when it seems some damsels in distress (or at least in motorhomes) need rescuing from dragon's lairs (or at least from MoT test stations)! Oh, just in case I'm misunderstood ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
empress Posted April 16, 2007 Author Share Posted April 16, 2007 Thank you, Brian, we may be glad of your help on your charger another time. Empress Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Ord Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 I own a Rapido 924F 2005 model and the headlights are Hella units and can be adjusted for right or left dip. Consult your Rapido dealer. Brownhills showed me how to do it. Bill Ord Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
empress Posted April 20, 2007 Author Share Posted April 20, 2007 Thanks for this advice, Bill. Will try to speak to a man "who knows" at Peterboro' if he can spare time from selling. Empress Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dancer Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 I trust your third paragraph was not intentionally insulting Brian. People have been banned for less. We can't aford to lose learned contributors, even if a bit verbose at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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