LGV to PHGV Up Plate

[fripp]

colin - 2021-10-22 2:13 PM

 

I would note that Carado offer this on the configurator.

 

Weight increase to 3,65 t (no chassis modification)

I'd guess from that, there are no technical reasons that it can't be done, but they do charge £220 which seems a lot of money for attaching a different plate on assembly.

The cost of something tends to be related to the worth and not the cost in a lot of cases, unless you have lots of competition on a product.

[fripp]

Just to give people an update to this and anyone who comes across this thread in the future:-

 

I sent the DVLA a letter including a picture of the FIAT weight plate stating maximum permissible mass of 3650kg. In the letter I asked if the Revenue Weight and Maximum Permissible mass could be corrected to match the FIAT weight plate as the recent import registration I had completed had not done this. Along with this letter I sent my V5, a copy of the FIAT COC and a completed V70.

 

Two weeks later I have received a new V5 with Revenue Weight and Maximum Permissible Mass set to 3650kg and the vehicle tax class set to Private HGV.

 

Not sure if this will be a completely reproducible process as responses from the DVLA can be a bit random. But it worked for me with no additional costs needed for a Weight Change Certificate.

[Derek Uzzell]

Although the DVLA has altered your motorhome's VED class and provided you with a replacement V5C, what will not have changed is the 'stage 2' data-plate fitted to the vehicle by the converter that (presumably) shows a GVW of 3500kg.

 

Whether you are comfortable having a conflict between the new V5C and the Carado data-plate is up to you, but it's the Carado data-plate that 'counts' GVW-wise irrespective of what the DVLA has agreed to do.

 

 

[fripp]

 

I am very comfortable with this. And to be honest if I was not or someone else was it is quite easy to either make or purchase a weight plate, google VIN Plate on Ebay or

 

https://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/503836250/motorhome-weight-sticker-personalised

 

The new plates (or stickers actually) from SVtech are no more than this. As the registration on the DVLA computer is now correct and I have a V5 to match I do not believe I will have any issues.

[Brian Kirby]

I was very surprised to read Robert's post above, so much so that I've had a few (very) discreet conversations.

 

First, I was been told is that in the absence of independent verification (from either Carado or an authorised automotive engineer) that the vehicle is safe to operate at the higher MAM, the DVLA were in error in having issued the V5C as Robert describes.

 

Second that where the stage 2, Carado, plate conflicts with the V5C it will be, as stated above, the Carado plate that will determine the legally permissible maximum vehicle masses in any roadside weight check.

 

Third, that any VIN plate attached to the vehicle by anyone other than Carado or an authorised automotive engineer will be legally invalid.

 

Fourth, that in the event of an accident which resulted in the vehicle weight being questioned, it is probable that the anomaly between the vehicle records (including the Carado CoC and the post importation IAC that will have been based on it) and the plate/s would be likely to be queried.

 

Fifth, that this could result in any resulting insurance claim being rejected, at least insofar as (but not necessarily limited to) damage to the vehicle itself was concerned.

 

Sixth, that as the vehicle is a LHD import it will have been subject to Individual Vehicle Approval as a pre-condition for UK registration, and the Vehicle Certification Agency (VCA) will therefore have issued its Individual Approval Certificate based on its Carado 3,500kg Certificate of Conformity, and that Certificate is what DVLA will originally have relied upon when completing registration.

 

I was also informed that the DVLA's error with Robert's van is not unique, and is largely attributable to inadequately trained DVLA staff not following proper procedure.

 

Nothing above assumes that the vehicle is actually unsafe to use at 3,650kg MAM, only that the legality of its use at that MAM is highly questionable.

 

If push comes to shove, the obvious question would be how/why the alteration of the V5C was authorised, and who ordered the printing of, and installed, any substitute VIN plate (if this is carried through).

 

From Robert's post this trail of errors has DVLA at its source. The question that arises is whether Robert is best advised to accept what he has and keep quiet in the hope that the anomaly between V5C and VIN plate is not spotted (possibly at MoT time), or to seek to officially regularise the VIN plate to correspond with the new V5C.

 

Last thought, for Robert. If you haven't already done so, make sure to notify your insurer of the change to the MAM.

[fripp]

 

I give up.

[colin]

fripp - 2021-12-10 5:44 PM

 

I give up.

 

I don't think you quite realise what might happen, going on what you have posted.

You posted that you have sent DVLA a copy of Fiat CoC and photo of the Fiat plate, you have made no indication that you also gave the DVLA a photo of the 3.5t plate, if you didn't then they have upgraded the weight without giving them the full information. I'm sure that your vehicle is perfectly safe at the higher weight, but if it came to be checked and found with a lower plate there could be serious consequences.

[Brian Kirby]

fripp - 2021-12-10 5:44 PM..........................

I give up.

Robert, don't! It is all information that was obtained and posted for your benefit. It is, so far as I am able to determine, also correct. You will note that much of it corresponds with what others have advised earlier.

 

In your 10 December 2021 2:08 PM you said: "I sent the DVLA a letter including a picture of the FIAT weight plate stating maximum permissible mass of 3650kg. In the letter I asked if the Revenue Weight and Maximum Permissible mass could be corrected to match the FIAT weight plate as the recent import registration I had completed had not done this. Along with this letter I sent my V5, a copy of the FIAT COC and a completed V70."

 

What you supplied to DVLA was less than the full information from your van, because you omitted reference to or evidence of the Carado stage 2 plate. This may have misled DVLA staff to suppose that the 3,500kg MAM on the original V5C was an error. In effect that a 3,650kg vehicle was erroneously registered at 3,500kg instead of 3,650kg. But that is not true.

 

EU manufactured motorhomes are are completed in accordance with EU Multi Stage Type Approval procedure, under which, at each stage, approval has to be obtained, with the vehicle not finally approved until it obtains its final Certificate of Conformity. Under that procedure the manufacturer of the final stage attaches a VIN plate that supersedes, but does not replace, all earlier plates. The earlier plates are retained to show the construction history of the vehicle. So, the stage 2 plate information was an integral part of the information DVLA required. Yes, as the vehicle is a motorhome they should have checked their own records for the Final stage CoC, but it seems they did not.

 

You might choose to rely on that error should any legality queries arise, but it seems to me that omission might equally place you in a potentially difficult position under those circumstances. I'm not seeking to thwart your wish to up-plate from 3,500kg to 3,650kg, only to alert you to some foreseeable pitfalls that might flow from the DVLA's error.

[crocs]

fripp - 2021-12-10 5:44 PM

 

I give up.

 

I sense a large dollop of frustration here. Frustration that is perhaps focused on the messenger rather than the message.

 

I understand that some replies can be long-winded and pedantic but you need to cut through that and hear the advice that is being given.

 

I have long thought that DVLA should have a simpler system for small upgrades along the line you suggest without the additional expense of employing an agent for what seems little added value. But they don't; and the lack of responders with that experience tells its own story. I thought you had actually achieved it and would have been the first to congratulate you had it not been for the very sharp corner that was cut, viz not informing the DVLA of the Stage 2 Plate. Had that been done, you would have made a breakthrough that would have been celebrated. As it stands, you could be in danger of legal complexity should the situation be investigated, however unlikely that may be.

 

Yes, you could rely on the defence of having applied to DVLA but that would be unlikely to stand under investigation. The risk is yours.