passionwagon Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 8-) Ok so some of you feel it is fine to take risks and the consequences. Well think about those who have to pick up the pieces from an accident and the associated costs to the community -the rest of us! Because we have a perceived free NHS it is not valued by the many users-if you had to pay an accident treatment premium you may well feel more responsible. Did you know for every mptor accident victim taken to hospital by ambulance, the insurers of the vehicle they were in, have to pay £159 (your NCD is not affected)- about time all accident victims had to pay this-cilmbers, sailors, potholers etc. Why should we all pay for their accidents?If you have seen as I have the damage an adult can do to themselves and/or the person in front of them in the vehicle your opinions would change . It is interesting to note that the NHS has a shortage of donor parts because most do belt up-proof positive it is crazy not to belt up even restain your dog. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W3526602 Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 Hi Both, Doing ANYTHING has its risks. Even reducing those risks has its risks. (The one that gets up my nose is closing schools because it might snow...thus scattering hundreds of unsupervised childen into the neighbourhood. But no matter, the person who was responsble has passed the buck). If you drive a car you are a risk to both me and yourself. OK, you NEED to drive a car. If you drive something bigger (campervan) you are a bigger risk to me, perhaps not to yourself. You do not NEED to drive a camper. But we both realise that you have assessed the risks, and I am prepared to acept your judgement. Have you never driven in a situation when someone else would have a different opinion? When the radio tells you not to travel unless your journey is absolutely necessary, do you phone your boss and tell him you can't make it today? What would your reaction be if you were the boss? We each have to be responsible for our own judgements and actions. If we are wrong, our insurers pick up the tab. As for percieving the NHS to be free, I thought it was only the NHS staff who felt we were getting their services for nothing (Stand by for the flack) 602 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livewire Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 I think I'll give up this motorhoming lark, it sounds far too dangerous. Certainly after motorcycling, rock climbing and night clubbing, I thought I had found a reasonably safe past time. Anyway, I'd better go, got to order some more cotton wool. All you sensible ones out there, don't forget the highlight of the day: that extra cup of tea at breakfast....Wow ....Steady on there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 livewire - 2007-04-21 8:35 AM I think I'll give up this motorhoming lark, it sounds far too dangerous. Certainly after motorcycling, rock climbing and night clubbing, I thought I had found a reasonably safe past time. Anyway, I'd better go, got to order some more cotton wool. All you sensible ones out there, don't forget the highlight of the day: that extra cup of tea at breakfast....Wow ....Steady on there! Typical, sarcasm masquerading as humour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 Strange how these arguments always descend into the plain silly' isn't it? The big, brave risk takers, versus the cowardly, nanny state hugging, risk avoiders. This is never about sense, intelligence, or logic, but some crazy comic book notion of what real, hairy chested, men do!We go up and down stairs daily, one of the most dangerous activities in our homes. We all take that risk. However, do the real men out there do this blindfolded and without holding the handrail, just to increase the risk. We all risk crossing roads, but most of us try to avoid the traffic! Presumably the hairy chested ones cross looking left only, just for that extra buzz!In truth, this is about intelligence versus stupidity. Confronting a risk, assessing its likelihood and its possible severity, and then deciding how best to minimise it, isn't a lack of courage, it is an application of common sense. Ignoring the risk and its possible consequences isn't brave, or noble, or manly, it is just plain silly.And don't quote me instances of selfless heroes to prove the nobility of taking risks. Most who have done these things decided for themselves that they will risk death or injury in order to help others. That requires them to calculate the chances of their survival, so that they can be of help, otherwise they merely commit a pointless, exhibitionist, suicide. It is making that calculation in the face of death that is where the courage lies, not in just blundering in blind.Those who prefer the alternative, gung ho, approach can always make an advance application for inclusion in the Darwin Awards. These awards are made every year. The awards are named in honour of Charles Darwin, the father of evolution, and commemorate those who improve our gene pool by removing themselves from it. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W3526602 Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 Hi Brian, I think your are saying that it is okay to take a risk provided you have weighed up the odds, and taken precautions. ???? To bring this back on topic, my feelings are that you are unlikely to be injured because you are not wearing a belt, but IF you are injured it is likely to be worse than if you were wearing a belt. Perception? I have been happy to fly in a Tiger Moth and a DH Comet, ride a bike and a horse without a helmet, and drive a car without a belt. I would be happy to do all those again. I am very uncomfortable about trusting SOME coach drivers, riding in a BR 125 train, or flying in 737, even though those are reputed to be the safest means of travel. 602 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 W3526602 - 2007-04-22 7:48 AM Hi Brian, I think your are saying that it is okay to take a risk provided you have weighed up the odds, and taken precautions. ???? 602 in the real world all risks must be assessed and control measures put in place to control the identified risks. BUT the assessment has to be carried out by a competent person. e.g someone with the skill and experience and qualifications to make that assessment. it is in this regard that some on here will fall into difficulty :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 W3526602 - 2007-04-22 7:48 AM Hi Brian, I think your are saying that it is okay to take a risk provided you have weighed up the odds, and taken precautions. ???? No, that’s not really what I'm saying. I wouldn’t say it is OK to take a risk. Merely that it would be foolish to take on a risk without weighing the odds and taking precautions. To bring this back on topic, my feelings are that you are unlikely to be injured because you are not wearing a belt, but IF you are injured it is likely to be worse than if you were wearing a belt. I think risk was very much on topic. Agreed, part was about legality, but the rest was about safety, which is implies risk assessment.Unlikely to be injured because you are not wearing a belt? The only circumstance in which this can be true is with the vehicle stationary, and off road! Under all other circumstances, the risk of injury is greater if unbelted. Definitely agree about worse injury if unbelted, though.Perception? I have been happy to fly in a Tiger Moth and a DH Comet, ride a bike and a horse without a helmet, and drive a car without a belt. I would be happy to do all those again. I am very uncomfortable about trusting SOME coach drivers, riding in a BR 125 train, or flying in 737, even though those are reputed to be the safest means of travel. I envy you the tig moth, the Comet and the horses: never done light aircraft or gee gees. Glad your Comet wasn’t one where they discovered metal fatigue, though! Bikes: I must have ridden 1,000's of miles, on road, without helmet. Wouldn't now, though. Too many cars, going too fast, and not enough bikes for the drivers to understand properly rider's needs and limitations. Unbelted in a car, ditto. The cars are much better, and safer overall, than they were, but we all go so much faster, and closer, including round bends, that when we do come unstuck the impact is so much greater. I now feel half dressed without a belt! Planes, and boats, and trains (including TGV at 185 mph!)? All fine with me. I trust the pilots, drivers and skippers to be competent. Besides, they sit at the front, so are the most at risk! Buses OK; but I inherently distrust coaches. Too many corners cut, including ludicrous liberties with two drivers and tachograph rest periods. Much stricter controls needed!602 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W3526602 Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 Hi Brian. Mmmmm .... a small element of agreement. The 125 and 737 make me nervous simply because I felt there was nothing I could do if anything went wrong. Absolutely helpless! I an not filled with confidence when I read about train drivers "flashing" each other...in the biblical sense...to relieve their boredom. £35,000 a year OTE, or so I'm told. And that TV program about he Watford Gap scared me silly. Many many years ago, I got involved with BR. I can still remember my three passengers trying to evacuate thru the passenger door window......simultaneously. They calmed down when the signal man told them he had stopped the express. The railway police gave me a NIP, but later withdrew it. Then they sent me a bill for £10 to repair their gate (yes, I had driven right thru it) which I ignored. With hindsight, I should have claimed for my damaged headlamp. Both the express and my car continued their journeys. The Comet was after they withdrew them from service. Mine was an RAF model, and wasn't pressurised, or not as much. 42,000ft and 550mph in 1960. Lyneham, Aktotiri, Aden. Us three erks were shoved onto a plane full of brass hats. Happy days. 602 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 survivors of air disasters are not the ones who do as they are told and stick there head between their legs and pray? they are the ones who use the seats tops as a ladder and climb over the heads of everyone else avoiding the jammed isles - and get to the front as near to the pilots as possible... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 JudgeMental - 2007-04-22 4:46 PM survivors of air disasters are not the ones who do as they are told and stick there head between their legs and pray? they are the ones who use the seats tops as a ladder and climb over the heads of everyone else avoiding the jammed isles - and get to the front as near to the pilots as possible... Or preferably, into the black box.... David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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