Guest pelmetman Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 pelmetman - 2022-02-03 9:58 PM pelmetman - 2022-02-03 9:46 PM John52 - 2022-02-03 9:41 PM pelmetman - 2022-02-03 9:23 PM pelmetman - 2022-02-03 9:13 PM pelmetman - 2022-02-03 9:10 PM pelmetman - 2022-02-03 6:47 PM John52 - 2022-02-03 5:47 PM https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/feb/03/boris-johnsons-policy-chief-quits-over-pms-scurrilous-savile-remark I can see Johnson's blaming Starmer for not prosecuting Sir Jimmy Savile OBE KCSG was pretty low. It wan't Starmer's decision, Starmer had no evidence and Savile used his close personal friendships with Margaret Thatcher and Prince Charles - why isn't Johnson blaming them? But, was it as bad as the smears against Corbyn - like calling Corbyn a Terrorist Sympathiser? When Johnson saw the Tory press get away with smears like that on Corbyn he must have thought he could get away with a lesser smear on Starmer? Aaah..... So Boris should accept responsibilty for the parties that his underlings arranged ;-) ....... Yet Snakey Starmer should "Shirk" responsibility for his underlings allowing a Peado to escape justice??? 8-) ....... Which implies that you think Boris eating cake is worse than Saville raping children >:-( ........ Enough said........... Well Joke 52? ;-) ......... Stop hiding behind the Squad >:-) ...... As I have a life outside this forum I have been away with other things to do than answer your silly question and I have come back to find Curtain Twitcher has already answered it We have seen a photo of Johnson at one of the parties Was Starmer there when Sir Jimmy Savile OBE KCSG, close personal friend of Prince Charles and the Tory Prime Minister who got him knighted was raping children? So you've been to the dog poo bin with your poo *-) ......... BTW none of your Squad chums have answered the question I posed ;-) ........ So WHY do you think Snakey Starmer should escape responsibilty for the decisions of his underlings but Boris should be held resonsible? >:-) .......... "So WHY do you think Snakey Starmer should escape responsibilty for the decisions of his underlings but Boris should be held resonsible?" Still waiting Joke52 >:-) ........ Just to annoy the Chimps >:-) ........... BTW if this thread gets deleted ;-) ....... Can you guess the title of my next thread? (lol) (lol) (lol) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtainRaiser Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 Even your bible is calling out your naked emperor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtainRaiser Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 What a way to go down… …clinging to your own Savile slur desperately. Really not the smartest hill to die on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted February 4, 2022 Share Posted February 4, 2022 pelmetman - 2022-02-03 10:02 PM pelmetman - 2022-02-03 9:58 PM pelmetman - 2022-02-03 9:46 PM John52 - 2022-02-03 9:41 PM pelmetman - 2022-02-03 9:23 PM pelmetman - 2022-02-03 9:13 PM pelmetman - 2022-02-03 9:10 PM pelmetman - 2022-02-03 6:47 PM John52 - 2022-02-03 5:47 PM https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/feb/03/boris-johnsons-policy-chief-quits-over-pms-scurrilous-savile-remark I can see Johnson's blaming Starmer for not prosecuting Sir Jimmy Savile OBE KCSG was pretty low. It wan't Starmer's decision, Starmer had no evidence and Savile used his close personal friendships with Margaret Thatcher and Prince Charles - why isn't Johnson blaming them? But, was it as bad as the smears against Corbyn - like calling Corbyn a Terrorist Sympathiser? When Johnson saw the Tory press get away with smears like that on Corbyn he must have thought he could get away with a lesser smear on Starmer? Aaah..... So Boris should accept responsibilty for the parties that his underlings arranged ;-) ....... Yet Snakey Starmer should "Shirk" responsibility for his underlings allowing a Peado to escape justice??? 8-) ....... Which implies that you think Boris eating cake is worse than Saville raping children >:-( ........ Enough said........... Well Joke 52? ;-) ......... Stop hiding behind the Squad >:-) ...... As I have a life outside this forum I have been away with other things to do than answer your silly question and I have come back to find Curtain Twitcher has already answered it We have seen a photo of Johnson at one of the parties Was Starmer there when Sir Jimmy Savile OBE KCSG, close personal friend of Prince Charles and the Tory Prime Minister who got him knighted was raping children? So you've been to the dog poo bin with your poo *-) ......... BTW none of your Squad chums have answered the question I posed ;-) ........ So WHY do you think Snakey Starmer should escape responsibilty for the decisions of his underlings but Boris should be held resonsible? >:-) .......... "So WHY do you think Snakey Starmer should escape responsibilty for the decisions of his underlings but Boris should be held resonsible?" Still waiting Joke52 >:-) ........ Bump....... Bump >:-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtainRaiser Posted February 4, 2022 Share Posted February 4, 2022 Seems that Mirza had her nose in the trough https://goodlawproject.org/update/patel-mirza-and-the-middlemen/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted February 4, 2022 Author Share Posted February 4, 2022 pelmetman - 2022-02-03 9:58 PM pelmetman - 2022-02-03 9:46 PM John52 - 2022-02-03 9:41 PM pelmetman - 2022-02-03 9:23 PM pelmetman - 2022-02-03 9:13 PM pelmetman - 2022-02-03 9:10 PM pelmetman - 2022-02-03 6:47 PM John52 - 2022-02-03 5:47 PM https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/feb/03/boris-johnsons-policy-chief-quits-over-pms-scurrilous-savile-remark I can see Johnson's blaming Starmer for not prosecuting Sir Jimmy Savile OBE KCSG was pretty low. It wan't Starmer's decision, Starmer had no evidence and Savile used his close personal friendships with Margaret Thatcher and Prince Charles - why isn't Johnson blaming them? But, was it as bad as the smears against Corbyn - like calling Corbyn a Terrorist Sympathiser? When Johnson saw the Tory press get away with smears like that on Corbyn he must have thought he could get away with a lesser smear on Starmer? Aaah..... So Boris should accept responsibilty for the parties that his underlings arranged ;-) ....... Yet Snakey Starmer should "Shirk" responsibility for his underlings allowing a Peado to escape justice??? 8-) ....... Which implies that you think Boris eating cake is worse than Saville raping children >:-( ........ Enough said........... Well Joke 52? ;-) ......... Stop hiding behind the Squad >:-) ...... As I have a life outside this forum I have been away with other things to do than answer your silly question and I have come back to find Curtain Twitcher has already answered it We have seen a photo of Johnson at one of the parties Was Starmer there when Sir Jimmy Savile OBE KCSG, close personal friend of Prince Charles and the Tory Prime Minister who got him knighted was raping children? So you've been to the dog poo bin with your poo *-) ......... BTW none of your Squad chums have answered the question I posed ;-) ........ So WHY do you think Snakey Starmer should escape responsibilty for the decisions of his underlings but Boris should be held resonsible? >:-) .......... "So WHY do you think Snakey Starmer should escape responsibilty for the decisions of his underlings but Boris should be held resonsible?" Still waiting Joke52 >:-) ........ Well the fact you have resorted to adhominem (dog poo bags) and profanities to get the thread deleted suggests you know you are in the wrong. But just in case it hasn't sunk in yet, I'll try and make it clearer. The parties were at Johnson's house and he took part in them. By comparing that with Starmer you are insinuating Savile's Child rapes took place at Starmers house and he took part in them. After the slurs on Corbyn, we might have come to expect that from the gutter press and the morons that soak it up. But it demeans the office of the Prime Minister. Which is why even his closest adviser has become so repelled by the stink in there she has had to leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted February 4, 2022 Share Posted February 4, 2022 John52 - 2022-02-04 9:29 AM pelmetman - 2022-02-03 9:58 PM pelmetman - 2022-02-03 9:46 PM John52 - 2022-02-03 9:41 PM pelmetman - 2022-02-03 9:23 PM pelmetman - 2022-02-03 9:13 PM pelmetman - 2022-02-03 9:10 PM pelmetman - 2022-02-03 6:47 PM John52 - 2022-02-03 5:47 PM https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/feb/03/boris-johnsons-policy-chief-quits-over-pms-scurrilous-savile-remark I can see Johnson's blaming Starmer for not prosecuting Sir Jimmy Savile OBE KCSG was pretty low. It wan't Starmer's decision, Starmer had no evidence and Savile used his close personal friendships with Margaret Thatcher and Prince Charles - why isn't Johnson blaming them? But, was it as bad as the smears against Corbyn - like calling Corbyn a Terrorist Sympathiser? When Johnson saw the Tory press get away with smears like that on Corbyn he must have thought he could get away with a lesser smear on Starmer? Aaah..... So Boris should accept responsibilty for the parties that his underlings arranged ;-) ....... Yet Snakey Starmer should "Shirk" responsibility for his underlings allowing a Peado to escape justice??? 8-) ....... Which implies that you think Boris eating cake is worse than Saville raping children >:-( ........ Enough said........... Well Joke 52? ;-) ......... Stop hiding behind the Squad >:-) ...... As I have a life outside this forum I have been away with other things to do than answer your silly question and I have come back to find Curtain Twitcher has already answered it We have seen a photo of Johnson at one of the parties Was Starmer there when Sir Jimmy Savile OBE KCSG, close personal friend of Prince Charles and the Tory Prime Minister who got him knighted was raping children? So you've been to the dog poo bin with your poo *-) ......... BTW none of your Squad chums have answered the question I posed ;-) ........ So WHY do you think Snakey Starmer should escape responsibilty for the decisions of his underlings but Boris should be held resonsible? >:-) .......... "So WHY do you think Snakey Starmer should escape responsibilty for the decisions of his underlings but Boris should be held resonsible?" Still waiting Joke52 >:-) ........ Well the fact you have resorted to adhominem (dog poo bags) and profanities to get the thread deleted suggests you know you are in the wrong. But just in case it hasn't sunk in yet, I'll try and make it clearer. The parties were at Johnson's house and he took part in them. By comparing that with Starmer you are insinuating Savile's Child rapes took place at Starmers house and he took part in them. After the slurs on Corbyn, we might have come to expect that from the gutter press and the morons that soak it up. But it demeans the office of the Prime Minister. Which is why even his closest adviser has become so repelled by the stink in there she has had to leave. Did Boris organize the Party/work event.........NO ;-) ....... Did Starmer attend a similar Party/work event........YES >:-) ........ Starmer was either incompetent or he knowingly turned a blind eye to a high profile peado case on his watch *-) ............. The fact that he was cleared by one of his own may wash with you LOSERS but it doesn't with me :-| ...... BTW here is another example of Snakey Starmers incompetence 8-) .......... https://order-order.com/2018/01/04/starmer-dpp-didnt-prosecute-worboys-75-sex-assaults/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted February 4, 2022 Author Share Posted February 4, 2022 pelmetman - 2022-02-04 9:42 AM Did Boris organize the Party/work event.........NO ;-) ....... Did Starmer attend a similar Party/work event........YES >:-) ........ So Queer Stammer would have to organise a party Wheras Starmer would only need to attend one like Queer Stammer did (and Starmer didn't) Another one just left Queer Stammer's office - can't stand the stink in there https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/feb/04/another-adviser-reportedly-quits-after-meltdown-day-at-no-10 PS: Can't read your link as it won't accept my ad blocker Is it another smear saying Starmer's failure to prosecute an offender (who is a close personal friend of the Tory PM) without evidence is the same as participating in the offences himself - as Queer Stammer did at the offences committed in his home? (Johnson of course being the one who has a queer stammer - I am trying to talk in your language) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted February 4, 2022 Share Posted February 4, 2022 Unable to defend Johnson any longer Dave has really no alternative to attacking Keir Starmer - because he seems to think that if Johnson goes Starmer will replace him. If Daves' undying love for Johnson is genuine ( unlikely ) he should be attacking Johnsons competitors for his job - Sunak, Truss etc, ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted February 4, 2022 Author Share Posted February 4, 2022 malc d - 2022-02-04 10:53 AM Johnson any longer Dave has really no alternative to attacking Keir Starmer ;-) Which of course is what Johnson himself is doing. Effectively saying that Starmer's failure to prosecute a crime is the same as committing the crime himself. Even when the criminal Starmer missed was protected by their close personal friendships with Tory PM Thatcher and Prince Charles. After what they did to Corbyn we might expect that from the Daily Mail and the morons that suck it up. But seeing the Prime Minister sink to that level is too much for even some of his closest aides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted February 4, 2022 Share Posted February 4, 2022 John52 - 2022-02-04 11:09 AM malc d - 2022-02-04 10:53 AM Johnson any longer Dave has really no alternative to attacking Keir Starmer ;-) Which of course is what Johnson himself is doing. ...and you are helping Dave by repeating his rubbish. :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted February 4, 2022 Share Posted February 4, 2022 malc d - 2022-02-04 11:12 AM John52 - 2022-02-04 11:09 AM malc d - 2022-02-04 10:53 AM Johnson any longer Dave has really no alternative to attacking Keir Starmer ;-) Which of course is what Johnson himself is doing. ...and you are helping Dave by repeating his rubbish. :-| What's up Malcom dont like your great White Dopes skeletons being rattled? :D ........... They need airing every now and then prior to the next election >:-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted February 4, 2022 Share Posted February 4, 2022 pelmetman - 2022-02-04 12:40 PM malc d - 2022-02-04 11:12 AM John52 - 2022-02-04 11:09 AM malc d - 2022-02-04 10:53 AM Johnson any longer Dave has really no alternative to attacking Keir Starmer ;-) Which of course is what Johnson himself is doing. ...and you are helping Dave by repeating his rubbish. :-| What's up Malcom dont like your great White Dopes skeletons being rattled? :D ........... Not at all Dave. I can quite understand that you find it much easier to make up lies about Keir Starmer than tell the truth about Boris Johnson. :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted February 5, 2022 Author Share Posted February 5, 2022 malc d - 2022-02-04 1:47 PM Not at all Dave. I can quite understand that you find it much easier to make up lies about Keir Starmer than tell the truth about Boris Johnson. :-| Dave is copying his hero Good summary here; https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/feb/04/boris-johnson-savile-smear-pm-power-britain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 I was listening to that Dorries woman on the Today programme this morning and it seems that all the Tory M.P. s are back out on the street " taking things forward " - " levelling up " ( etc ) - but IF Johnson was to resign, they wouldn't be capable of doing it any more. No strength in depth in the party then. :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 malc d - 2022-02-05 9:57 AM I was listening to that Dorries woman on the Today programme this morning and it seems that all the Tory M.P. s are back out on the street " taking things forward " - " levelling up " ( etc ) - but IF Johnson was to resign, they wouldn't be capable of doing it any more. No strength in depth in the party then. :-| That's because her constituency is already receiving 'levelling up' funds, after all the SE needs it. *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 malc d - 2022-02-05 9:57 AM I was listening to that Dorries woman on the Today programme this morning and it seems that all the Tory M.P. s are back out on the street " taking things forward " - " levelling up " ( etc ) - but IF Johnson was to resign, they wouldn't be capable of doing it any more. No strength in depth in the party then. :-| She's mad as a box of frogs and hopelessly besotted with Johnson. That wingnut has history for making utterly bonkers untruthful claims (remind you of someone?) such as, "Boris has delivered Brexit and 180,000 well paid jobs for Hartlepool. We get stuff done". Hartlepools population is just 92,000. *-) She was on BBC Breakfast this morning behaving most bizarrely. Maybe she'd been at the bottle. :-| https://tinyurl.com/5xnyz64w Here is a brief compilation of her gaffes and hypocrisy; https://tinyurl.com/a4mx4cwp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtainRaiser Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 Rees Mogg has submitted his letter to the 1822 committee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 Bulletguy - 2022-02-05 2:42 PM malc d - 2022-02-05 9:57 AM I was listening to that Dorries woman on the Today programme this morning and it seems that all the Tory M.P. s are back out on the street " taking things forward " - " levelling up " ( etc ) - but IF Johnson was to resign, they wouldn't be capable of doing it any more. No strength in depth in the party then. :-| She's mad as a box of frogs and hopelessly besotted with Johnson. That wingnut has history for making utterly bonkers untruthful claims (remind you of someone?) such as, "Boris has delivered Brexit and 180,000 well paid jobs for Hartlepool. We get stuff done". Hartlepools population is just 92,000. *-) She was on BBC Breakfast this morning behaving most bizarrely. Maybe she'd been at the bottle. :-| https://tinyurl.com/5xnyz64w Here is a brief compilation of her gaffes and hypocrisy; https://tinyurl.com/a4mx4cwp Interesting clips those. I can now see why Johnson chose her as Secretary of State for CULTURE. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 malc d - 2022-02-05 3:35 PM Bulletguy - 2022-02-05 2:42 PM malc d - 2022-02-05 9:57 AM I was listening to that Dorries woman on the Today programme this morning and it seems that all the Tory M.P. s are back out on the street " taking things forward " - " levelling up " ( etc ) - but IF Johnson was to resign, they wouldn't be capable of doing it any more. No strength in depth in the party then. :-| She's mad as a box of frogs and hopelessly besotted with Johnson. That wingnut has history for making utterly bonkers untruthful claims (remind you of someone?) such as, "Boris has delivered Brexit and 180,000 well paid jobs for Hartlepool. We get stuff done". Hartlepools population is just 92,000. *-) She was on BBC Breakfast this morning behaving most bizarrely. Maybe she'd been at the bottle. :-| https://tinyurl.com/5xnyz64w Here is a brief compilation of her gaffes and hypocrisy; https://tinyurl.com/a4mx4cwp Interesting clips those. I can now see why Johnson chose her as Secretary of State for CULTURE. ;-) Her latest batty comments is claiming the growing Tory rebellion over Partygate and her love flame Johnson, is a “Remainer plot” to “reverse Brexit”.......a claim later described by a fellow Conservative MP as “predictable rubbish from a predictable source”. (lol)(lol) She's known as Mad Nad for good reason! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtainRaiser Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 malc d - 2022-02-05 3:35 PM Bulletguy - 2022-02-05 2:42 PM malc d - 2022-02-05 9:57 AM I was listening to that Dorries woman on the Today programme this morning and it seems that all the Tory M.P. s are back out on the street " taking things forward " - " levelling up " ( etc ) - but IF Johnson was to resign, they wouldn't be capable of doing it any more. No strength in depth in the party then. :-| She's mad as a box of frogs and hopelessly besotted with Johnson. That wingnut has history for making utterly bonkers untruthful claims (remind you of someone?) such as, "Boris has delivered Brexit and 180,000 well paid jobs for Hartlepool. We get stuff done". Hartlepools population is just 92,000. *-) She was on BBC Breakfast this morning behaving most bizarrely. Maybe she'd been at the bottle. :-| https://tinyurl.com/5xnyz64w Here is a brief compilation of her gaffes and hypocrisy; https://tinyurl.com/a4mx4cwp Interesting clips those. I can now see why Johnson chose her as Secretary of State for CULTURE. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 Bulletguy - 2022-02-05 4:11 PM malc d - 2022-02-05 3:35 PM Bulletguy - 2022-02-05 2:42 PM malc d - 2022-02-05 9:57 AM I was listening to that Dorries woman on the Today programme this morning and it seems that all the Tory M.P. s are back out on the street " taking things forward " - " levelling up " ( etc ) - but IF Johnson was to resign, they wouldn't be capable of doing it any more. No strength in depth in the party then. :-| She's mad as a box of frogs and hopelessly besotted with Johnson. That wingnut has history for making utterly bonkers untruthful claims (remind you of someone?) such as, "Boris has delivered Brexit and 180,000 well paid jobs for Hartlepool. We get stuff done". Hartlepools population is just 92,000. *-) She was on BBC Breakfast this morning behaving most bizarrely. Maybe she'd been at the bottle. :-| https://tinyurl.com/5xnyz64w Here is a brief compilation of her gaffes and hypocrisy; https://tinyurl.com/a4mx4cwp Interesting clips those. I can now see why Johnson chose her as Secretary of State for CULTURE. ;-) Her latest batty comments is claiming the growing Tory rebellion over Partygate and her love flame Johnson, is a “Remainer plot” to “reverse Brexit”.......a claim later described by a fellow Conservative MP as “predictable rubbish from a predictable source”. (lol)(lol) She's known as Mad Nad for good reason! Certainly seems she has quite a crush on Johnson. Looks like Dave has a serious rival . :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 malc d - 2022-02-05 4:27 PM Bulletguy - 2022-02-05 4:11 PM malc d - 2022-02-05 3:35 PM Bulletguy - 2022-02-05 2:42 PM malc d - 2022-02-05 9:57 AM I was listening to that Dorries woman on the Today programme this morning and it seems that all the Tory M.P. s are back out on the street " taking things forward " - " levelling up " ( etc ) - but IF Johnson was to resign, they wouldn't be capable of doing it any more. No strength in depth in the party then. :-| She's mad as a box of frogs and hopelessly besotted with Johnson. That wingnut has history for making utterly bonkers untruthful claims (remind you of someone?) such as, "Boris has delivered Brexit and 180,000 well paid jobs for Hartlepool. We get stuff done". Hartlepools population is just 92,000. *-) She was on BBC Breakfast this morning behaving most bizarrely. Maybe she'd been at the bottle. :-| https://tinyurl.com/5xnyz64w Here is a brief compilation of her gaffes and hypocrisy; https://tinyurl.com/a4mx4cwp Interesting clips those. I can now see why Johnson chose her as Secretary of State for CULTURE. ;-) Her latest batty comments is claiming the growing Tory rebellion over Partygate and her love flame Johnson, is a “Remainer plot” to “reverse Brexit”.......a claim later described by a fellow Conservative MP as “predictable rubbish from a predictable source”. (lol)(lol) She's known as Mad Nad for good reason! Certainly seems she has quite a crush on Johnson. Looks like Dave has a serious rival . :-D I think he has a blow up Boris doll he plays with. Meantime here is that intrepid roving reporter Johnathan Pie explaining to Americans why Brits are so p1ssed off with Johnson. :D https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_5u36YFb5E&list=FL-lez4R1JNbMGiwzb4lL3zA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted February 5, 2022 Author Share Posted February 5, 2022 malc d - 2022-02-05 4:27 PM Certainly seems she has quite a crush on Johnson. Looks like Dave has a serious rival . :-D For Johnson and for the bottle (lol) But who will Johnson choose, Dave or Nadine (?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted February 5, 2022 Author Share Posted February 5, 2022 She went on TV to talk about Johnson's current mood and refused to say whether she had spoken to him in the last 24 hours. Even objected to being asked - as though it was irrelevant, and the BBC shouldn't have the audacity to enquire as to whether she actually knew what she was talking about. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/feb/05/nadine-dorries-rides-the-airwaves-to-back-pm-amid-partygate-row Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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