rooster63 Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 A while back had new tyres fitted to my van which has alloys. A previous owner had filled the tyres with a sealant. After a while realised there was a slight leak on one wheel and this was eventually narrowed down to the fact the alloys had become corroded/pitted so the valve wasn’t seating properly.The tyre sealant was probably masking that. The wheel was cleaned up and everything seemed fine until I came back from anon camping trip to find the tyre completely flat. After looking at various options a locally recommended garage said that they have found the screwed on metal valves (there is a fixing nut on the outside of the wheel) tend to have a relatively small sealant washer. They have suggested using a high pressure rubber valve which has a bigger area to form a seal. In the meantime I have sent for some Tyre sealant and my question is, is it better to have the tyre sealant in thus sealing up any small leaks if the corrosion spreads or is it better to continue using my Tyrepal TPMS so i am warned of any leaks. I hadn’t realised until recently that Tyrepal don’t recommend using their system with a sealant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simian Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 Holts/Halfords state their Tyreweld product is safe to use with TPMS. Within reason it's usually possible to make the valve seating area smooth enough so as not to leak, and perhaps fit a larger sealing washer. Alloy rims also get porosity problems sometimes painting the rim interior is effective as a cure. Just a couple of weeks ago I had a similar slow valve leak but on a steel rim caused by mild rust corrosion, I dremel ground as smooth as possible, then spray painted so as to smooth out and fitted a new high pressure TR 600 valve, keeping pressure so far touch rubber! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 Clamp-in 'metal' tyre valves come in two varieties - one type has a thin O-ring seal that sits in a groove in the valve's base and the other has a stepped rubber washer seal. When a 'metal' valve is factory-fitted as original equipment to Boxer/Ducato/Relay motorhomes, it's the O-ring-seal type that's used, and this type of valve needs the wheel-rim at the valve-hole to be in excellent condition. The stepped-rubber-washer-seal type of valve is more commonly used when replacing/retrofitting 'metal' valves and is more tolerant of imperfections at the valve-hole. But 'rubber' valves are available that are designed for a tyre inflation pressure well above the 80psi value that's commonly advised for coachbuilt motorhomes, so if your garage can source suitable valves there's no overpowering reason not to use them. As the TyrePal system depresses the valve core, this potentially allows a tyre sealant to enter the core area and affect the TyrePal pressure sensor that's screwed on top of the valve-stem in place of the valve-cap. A couple of weeks ago I had a tyre fitted to wheel I'm going to use as as spare on my Hyundai car. The fitter told me that a motorist had arrived there a few days back having recently had four new tyres on his car (fitted by Kwik Fit) and had complained about serious vibration through the steering wheel. One wheel was removed and found to be way out of balance and when the tyre was detached from the wheel rim there was sealant slopping around inside. The motorist was advised to go back to Kwik Fit and demand new tyres. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spyder Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 Many years ago when I was a commercial tyre fitter anything that came in with a puncture with sealants in just got binned as you couldn’t guarantee a good repair after a puncture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevec176 Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 I don't have a spare wheel so about 4 years ago had sealant inserted into my tyres and I've had a TPMS for about 3 years and so far no problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simian Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 Derek Uzzell - 2022-04-13 3:42 PM A couple of weeks ago I had a tyre fitted to wheel I'm going to use as as spare on my Hyundai car. The fitter told me that a motorist had arrived there a few days back having recently had four new tyres on his car (fitted by Kwik Fit) and had complained about serious vibration through the steering wheel. One wheel was removed and found to be way out of balance and when the tyre was detached from the wheel rim there was sealant slopping around inside. The motorist was advised to go back to Kwik Fit and demand new tyres. It is possible to dynamically balance a wheel with a measure of liquid within the tyre. There's a product called Dynabeads? I think it uses small glass balls to part fill a tyre and the constant motion produces the balancing effect, the loose beads acting much as a liquid might. Why a Kwik Fit fitter would put or leave tyre sealer to slop around in a new tyre mount defeats me. But then 'Kwik Fit' fitter may give a clue ! Do you reckon rather, that he left hardened, aged, old sealant lumps on the inner rim, they may easily upset the balance, notably so in this case if he possibly didn't even bother balancing the new set up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 I recall coming across wheel/tyre balancing with beads years ago, when it was popular in the USA for truck wheels that were (then) challenging to balance using traditional methods. I'd forgotten about it until you mentioned it, but I see that there has been some UK interest. This 2014 biker discussion about Dynabeads is quite fun https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=74&t=1384679 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rooster63 Posted April 13, 2022 Author Share Posted April 13, 2022 So what do folk reckon 1 use Tyreseal on its own, no TPMS 2 Use TPMS no Tyreseal 3 Use both? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simian Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 Yes tyre beads, not that recent an innovation, although I think the physics involved were explained by Archimedes when he had trouble with his wire wheeled 650 twin. That PH linked source is funny, 8 years ago must have missed or or forgotten it. In the day If anyone was after a mix of innuendo, jokes, plain filth and some high brow argument then they need have looked no further than the Motor Cycling Forums! Unfortunately the M/C forums seem to be dying a slow death now, as are many other forums apparently.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamRienza Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 I have used Airseal on 2 sets of front and 1 set of rears since 2016. The tyre depot balances the tyres. No issues with steering or wheel rotation in all that time. I fitted tyrepal TPMS about 4 years ago and have had no issues with the readings. As a matter of course, at the start of each year I remove the sensors, test the tyre pressures with a Ring compressor before refitting the sensors. No problems. Davy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simian Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 rooster63 - 2022-04-13 6:36 PM So what do folk reckon 1 use Tyreseal on its own, no TPMS 2 Use TPMS no Tyreseal 3 Use both? I would go for proper repair of rim so its Numero 2 for me. My reasoning? well Its generally reckoned that no tyre sealer lasts more than a few months and although a leaking tyre valve seating is not likely to be as safety related as a puncture might be, just the regular pressure checking I would find irksome. But if I could be convinced that the sealer didn't gum up the TPMS system and didnt coagulate into a wheel unbalancing lump or be so slimey that a tyre fitter at a later date might tell you to take a walk when presenting for a tyre change, or puncture repair, then I might go for Numero 3. Caveat, I'm not a tyre fitter, not even a Kwik Fit Fitter, LoL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 TyrePal advises "Do not fit sensors to tyres that have been treated with internal tyre sealant. The sealant may damage the sensor or impair its action", and there's a Tyreseal FAQ section here https://www.tyreseal.co.uk/index.php?route=information/information&information_id=16 rooster63 discussed this problem in two earlier threads https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/alloy-wheels-and-slow-punctures/59603/ https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Replacing-steel-core-tyre-valves/59501/ If the tyre valve is to be replaced, the options are another 'metal' clamp-in valve (Photos 1 and 2 attached below) or a 'rubber' snap-in valve (Photos 3 and 4 below). If a clamp-in valve were to be used, it would be advisable to choose the more common stepped-washer type (that need to be fitted carefully). If a high pressure snap-in valve were to be used, there are some specialised variants (example here) https://www.alligator-valves.com/en/products/valves/light-truck/100x-alligator-cvv-ventil-47mm but the most common is the TR600 valve (Photo 3). The Schrader snap-in HP valve shown in Photo 4 is designed to cope with significantly higher pressures. Ford Transit Mk 6 vehicles had German-made TR600 valves that had a notoriously high failure rate and Ford switched to the Schrader HP valve for the Transit Mk 7. (I'm not sure how easy it is to source the Schrader valve nowadays, though a Ford dealer might be able to get them.) Logically, the leaking tyre valve should be changed (and the area where the valve seats in the wheel-rim checked and cleaned up if necessary). As rooster63 has bought Tyreseal, he might as well use it: if it then negatively affects the TyrePal system tough luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 We all managed perfectly well for years without TPMS until soneone thought it was a good idea to impose it on us whether we want it or not - probably because they could charge us ten times what it cost them. The TPMS on both our cars are a pain in the valve, the least change in pressure causing them to bleep and impose a message on the dashboard, and I would never voluntarily install it as an after purchase add on for any vehicle. Are we all incapable of visually checking our wheels and tyres before during and after a trip, or is it just old farts like me that were brought up to carry out sensible checks, like oil and water levels, for their own safety and convenience? Re setting TPMS is, in theory, not difficult, but both cars are different and who can remember without referring to an overly complex and spectacularly unhelpful handbook that seems to have been written by someone who has never had to use it. If I could deactivate them I would but like so much allegedly helpful technology it is foisted upon us and even worse, we have to pay inflated prices for technology we do not want. I too have been lumbered with cars with no spare wheel and a repair kit. My solution, which has so far worked over the years, is to carry a decent tyre inflator (in each vehicle) which will usually put enough air back into a tyre to either get you to where you are going or to a tyre repair facility where a puncture can be repaired without the complication of gloop in the wheel. No tyre repair gunge, no TPMS, keep it simple! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simian Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 I use the TR600HP (100PSI max.) on my wheels, have done for at least 12 years, never had a failure. I conclude that the Transit valve problem of some years ago (substandard batch) was just a glitch. Surprisingly, at least to me, was that the original Merc. ex factory supplied valves were indistinguishable from car valves. Although the van is 7tonne GVW over 6 tyres, recommended pressures are a fairly low 64PSI. Merc. must have considered these valves kind of adequate, but probably just a fennig pinching measure. Truth is I did have a couple of these valves fail, one went on the inside wheel of the dual rear, I didn't notice that anything was amiss until reaching Calais. The valve could have could gone AWOL anywhere between Calais and Angouleme! And judging by the state of the tyre it must have been nearer Angouleme than Calais, 3 wheel drive 8-) The other fail of my Merc. fitted valves was shortly after the above event, that valve exploded like a rifle shot out of the rim five minutes after a park up. Needless to say I replaced the rest. PDQ.! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rooster63 Posted April 14, 2022 Author Share Posted April 14, 2022 Took van to recommended garage. They put a new valve in(rubber but rated to 80psi) . Showed me the old valve, the rubber seal/washer was virtually non existent. They also said there was no corrosion to speak of. Hopefully job done for £18. Makes you wonder who to trust for an honest assessment. As for using TPMS all I can say is that yes they can be temperamental but couple of years back picked up a screw in rear tyre, once pressure had gone below 55psi alarm went off but had time to pull into lay by and avoid tyre damage. Not sure how quickly would have realised tyre was going flat, thus potentially ruining tyre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 simian - 2022-04-14 12:59 PM I use the TR600HP (100PSI max.) on my wheels, have done for at least 12 years, never had a failure. I conclude that the transit valve problem of some years ago (substandard batch) was just a glitch... If it was a ‘substandard batch’, it was a very big one! I had the factory-fitted TR600-design valves fail on my 2005 Transit Mk 6-based Hobby motorhome’s rear wheels. I could hear that one of the vehicle’s tyres was low on pressure after I had just come off a French autoroute and, having parked the motorhome and while putting the spare wheel on, the valve on the other rear wheel also failed. Both valves split but were still capable of retaining a pressure of around 20psi. There was a good deal of motorhome forum discussion at the time about this and it became evident that the UK tyre-fitting community (and Ford) were well aware of it. The O&AL forum threads listed here go into more detail https://tinyurl.com/yd33zfm8 A French tyre-fitting company fitted ‘metal’ replacement valves at my request, but used wrong diameter ones. When I got back to the UK I had all four of the Hobby’s tyre valves swapped for the appropriate clamp-in type. The maximum inflation pressure for a TR600 valve is occasionally given as 100psi, but a 80psi (5.5bar) maximum is more common. I’ve copied below the relevant section of Schrader’s catalogue that includes their high-pressure snap-in rubber valves - this shows the TR600 valve (5.5bar cold max) and the 6575x valves (14bar cold max) that Ford Transit Mk 7s (and Renault Masters of that era) had as original equipment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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