peedee Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 CAMpRA has been contacted by the parking manager at Craven District Council because they are concerned at the numbers of motorhomes which are staying overnight in Skipton, Settle and Ingleton. Many people will be aware that there are dedicated overnight spaces in these towns - 5 in Skipton, 5 in Settle and 4 in Ingleton. Whilst motorhomes are welcome to park in greater numbers during the day on payment of the relevant charge (including paying for 2 bays if you take up 2), there have been many complaints about the numbers staying outside the designated spaces overnight. Craven DC have asked us to publicise that if the dedicated spaces are full, then motorhome owners should move on elsewhere. Unfortunately, if people continue to exceed these numbers, the facility is likely to be withdrawn. Please share to any motorhome groups of which you are a member - thanks. We'd hate to lose some really good overnight places. Just shows how much such facilities are required in this country but if they are abused we lose! peedee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulmold Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 Seen such excessive numbers several times. The problem as I see it is we haven't the network of such places. A motorhomer rolls up early evening, there's already the maximum number of vans there so what's he to do, can't just move to next village as there isn't an 'aire' there, so what does he do? He thinks 1 more won't matter, then another rolls up etc. It's like the Stay the Night scheme in Scottish Forestry sites, most of those have a limit of only 2 or 3 vans so unless you arrive at midday (and waste the rest of the day) you should move on but will the next one be different? I went to Hay on Wye , in Powys where there is no limit on numbers , and saw so many vans that had obviously stayed overnight (they were literally parked in a row of spaces so close together you couldn't open a door) . Hay on Wye is a busy town with only one car park. If other visitors can't park then the town will suffer loss of revenue and if business owners start complaining then I can see this provision being removed. Campras aim was/is to establish this network of sites needed but all they do is give 5van exemption certificates creating more CLs which are no nearer towns than the existing CLs /CSs of the 2 main clubs which is not what is wanted. The French Passion group were originally going to get involved but have decided not to proceed, I wonder why. Perhaps they could see this network of Aires is simply not going to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 It’s already started - North Yorkshire opened dedicated overnight parking in Helmsley but, again, overcrowding, overstaying and abuse of the area has caused them to pause the facility until they can decide on the best way forward. It’s no help pointing to france as a good example - they are already turning format aires over to private companies who now charge for staying. But the aires network was largely put in place by local mairie’s who saw the value of camping cars stopping overnight then moving on. In this country we don’t have the available land to create a huge network and where there may be land the council usually have other uses for it. We have seen the same story repeated over and over where, in particular, Motorhomes are staying for weeks at a time not just overnight as is usually envisaged. Another example in Redcar and Cleveland is the stray alongside the beach - too many vans staying too long and now charges are in place. Sorry guys but sometimes, even when there is a free overnight stay in the area, if they’re full they’re full and a local campsite is the next option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulmold Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 As for The Stray in Redcar, all they had to do was close the barriers at night, they haven't been closed for years, or erect signs stating how many nights vans can stay and actually patrol the area with appropriate action. No need to charge for parking there, that affects local residents. As for Helmsley, Skipton and Powys, Campra claim their success at those places but they were all available for overnighting for several years before Campra was started. Campra have advertised them and now of course the extra vans that have now read about these places have ruined things that were quite successful without Campra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peedee Posted October 15, 2022 Author Share Posted October 15, 2022 I don't think you can blame over crowding on CAMpRA, it is more likely due to the increase in popularity of motorcaravans. peedee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 We are just coming to the end of what has been an epic UK trip for us. Nearly five months by the time we get home. We mainly sought out off grid hidden away CL sites in Devon and Cornwall as they suit us because we use the scooter to get about and they were great but up in the Scottish isles we wild camped nearly all the time. We do of course follow the wild camping code of conduct but its pointless sometimes. One of the codes of conduct is not to park where there are are already lots of other vans. Trouble is we will almost always be the first to get to a wild spot as we just leave the van and go off on the scooter but what do you do when you get back hours later and ten other vans have arrived and turned it into a campsite? This is clearly what is happening on the Aires in the UK. Until we educate the morons who think its acceptable to cram in anyway they can rather than move on and find somewhere else when a space is full then there are going to be problems. Sites like searchforsites etc and of course the many facebook groups have laid bare all the wild spots and aires etc which not that long ago only a few of us knew about. Its all in the public domain now. I tend to pick my wild spots carefully now. Ill either park in such a way its unlikely anyone will park on top of me or in a spot that its just physically impossible to get more than two or three vans in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthur49 Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 On 10/14/2022 at 1:34 PM, paulmold said: As for Helmsley, Skipton and Powys, Campra claim their success at those places but they were all available for overnighting for several years before Campra was started. Campra have advertised them and now of course the extra vans that have now read about these places have ruined things that were quite successful without Campra. CAMpRA liaise with various local authorities/decision makers and there is no doubt some decisions are influenced by CAMpRA input. How do I know? Because I am a CAMpRA member involved in such activities though only in Scotland. Please show me specific quotes where "Campra claim their success at those places" ? CAMpRA do not advertise - we work with Search4Sites and they do indeed advertise as do Park4Night and various other apps. When a new stopover is opened, with an exemption certificate from Jim (Funster 1), it is true we announce it on CAMpRA Facebook but advertising ......? The current problems are caused by the irresponsible, the "entitled" who don't believe rules and signs apply to them. It is they who spoil it for the majority. "I've paid my road tax, I've got insurance and MOT and I can park anywhere on a public road or car park" is doing damage to our parking freedoms. An example of this behaviour. Glencaple Harbour south of Dumfries has rules about numbers overnighting, where it is permitted, and "do no camp" - yet last time we were there a van rolls up to a permitted space and proceeds to roll out his awning, tables, chairs etc outside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulmold Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 Isn't the announcement of new 'aires' or even the mention of the facilities at places such as Skipton 'advertising'? Perhaps you prefer the word 'publicising '. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted October 16, 2022 Share Posted October 16, 2022 12 hours ago, paulmold said: Isn't the announcement of new 'aires' or even the mention of the facilities at places such as Skipton 'advertising'? Perhaps you prefer the word 'publicising '. I think that’s a bit nitpicking and doesn’t do anything to help solve the problem. CAMPrA have done more in their short existence than most other motorhoming individuals have done despite constantly harping on about “someone should do something” as someone who did do something some years ago in my home town (where I would not benefit from establishing an aire) I can tell you it is no easy task to get local authorities to put Motorhome parking (never mind overnight parking) in at popular places. The local authorities have certain regulations regarding parking they have to negotiate plus difficult issues like public consultation. We should be applauding CAMPrA for their work instead of trying to apportion any blame for the selfish, thoughtless and sometimes ignorant behaviour of some motorhomers who often openly declare proudly they have never paid to overnight anywhere. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevec176 Posted October 16, 2022 Share Posted October 16, 2022 It would be interesting to know how much renters are adding to the problems. When I rented a van about 7 years ago nobody told me what I could or couldn't do or where I could or could stay. Such is the herd instinct if they see vans parked up they just follow suit, why should they care they'll be giving the van back in a week or two and probably the majority won't be doing it again. The renters need to be properly and fully educated not just about the van but about what is and isn't acceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthur49 Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 On 10/15/2022 at 10:15 PM, paulmold said: Isn't the announcement of new 'aires' or even the mention of the facilities at places such as Skipton 'advertising'? Perhaps you prefer the word 'publicising '. "Please show me specific quotes where "Campra claim their success at those places" ?" You still haven't answered the question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulmold Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 2 minutes ago, arthur49 said: "Please show me specific quotes where "Campra claim their success at those places" ?" You still haven't answered the question? Have you tried to find old posts on Facebook? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthur49 Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 3 minutes ago, paulmold said: Have you tried to find old posts on Facebook? But you know Paul. I'm asking you to show me ..... I haven't been a CAMpRA member all that long you could be correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulmold Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 14 minutes ago, arthur49 said: But you know Paul. I'm asking you to show me ..... I haven't been a CAMpRA member all that long you could be correct. When you search FB posts they come up in some sort of random order, I'm sorry but I haven't the time to trawl through them. If I've made a mistake (and from your first post in this thread I'm guessing you are more than a new member ) I apologise. Unfortunately if overcrowding or other misuse of such places continues then I can see more places removing such provisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthur49 Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 52 minutes ago, paulmold said: ....... Unfortunately if overcrowding or other misuse of such places continues then I can see more places removing such provisions. Nail on the head Paul. This is the big issue. I think we agree then Paul. As I said above it is the "entitled", the irresponsible, the selfish who will spoil it for the majority. Whilst its true I do a lot of work for CAMpRA (over the past year), I don't agree with everything they do or the way they go about it, but to campaign for improved facilities in the UK for motorcaravans is something I'm 100% behind. CAMpRA has 41000 members and the last time I saw DVLA figures, there were 410000 registered motorcaravans in the UK. Since CAMpRA Facebook is a "Closed" Group the promotional reach of "Aires" is only 10% of the hobby's community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthur49 Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 On 10/15/2022 at 8:42 AM, Barryd999 said: We are just coming to the end of what has been an epic UK trip for us. Nearly five months by the time we get home. We mainly sought out off grid hidden away CL sites in Devon and Cornwall as they suit us because we use the scooter to get about and they were great but up in the Scottish isles we wild camped nearly all the time. We do of course follow the wild camping code of conduct but its pointless sometimes. One of the codes of conduct is not to park where there are are already lots of other vans. Trouble is we will almost always be the first to get to a wild spot as we just leave the van and go off on the scooter but what do you do when you get back hours later and ten other vans have arrived and turned it into a campsite? This is clearly what is happening on the Aires in the UK. Until we educate the morons who think its acceptable to cram in anyway they can rather than move on and find somewhere else when a space is full then there are going to be problems. Sites like searchforsites etc and of course the many facebook groups have laid bare all the wild spots and aires etc which not that long ago only a few of us knew about. Its all in the public domain now. I tend to pick my wild spots carefully now. Ill either park in such a way its unlikely anyone will park on top of me or in a spot that its just physically impossible to get more than two or three vans in. Excellent post ........... Here is a link to the Scottish Outdoor Access Code Barry refers to: https://www.outdooraccess-scotland.scot/ ........ and a Youtube video which is useful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Lineker Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 On 10/14/2022 at 7:44 AM, peedee said: CAMpRA has been contacted by the parking manager at Craven District Council because they are concerned at the numbers of motorhomes which are staying overnight in Skipton, Settle and Ingleton. Many people will be aware that there are dedicated overnight spaces in these towns - 5 in Skipton, 5 in Settle and 4 in Ingleton. Whilst motorhomes are welcome to park in greater numbers during the day on payment of the relevant charge (including paying for 2 bays if you take up 2), there have been many complaints about the numbers staying outside the designated spaces overnight. Craven DC have asked us to publicise that if the dedicated spaces are full, then motorhome owners should move on elsewhere. Unfortunately, if people continue to exceed these numbers, the facility is likely to be withdrawn. Please share to any motorhome groups of which you are a member - thanks. We'd hate to lose some really good overnight places. Just shows how much such facilities are required in this country but if they are abused we lose! peedee I'm not a Campra member nor had I ever heard of it before this thread. That said we have motorhomed here and in Europe for decades. We returned from our first trip to Spain & France or to be more precise anywhere since COVID, late last night. The spot in the New Forest where we have stopped for years now had "No Overnighting" signs, so I carried on driving home whilst knackered. I almost thought of selling the camper whilst driving through the fog at midnight, now that it's not what it was, but I guess we'll just adapt to the new motorhoming normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthur49 Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 On 10/16/2022 at 8:29 PM, stevec176 said: It would be interesting to know how much renters are adding to the problems. When I rented a van about 7 years ago nobody told me what I could or couldn't do or where I could or could stay. Such is the herd instinct if they see vans parked up they just follow suit, why should they care they'll be giving the van back in a week or two and probably the majority won't be doing it again. The renters need to be properly and fully educated not just about the van but about what is and isn't acceptable. Its an interesting point Steve and I've no first hand evidence of contribution hire vans are making to our reputation. However, in May this year, heading south on the A9 north of Inverness at Berriedale Braes we spotted what we thought was a moho emptying their cassette in a ditch. We turned but by the time we got back the moho had moved on. We were right. Cassette contents in the ditch. Moho was not a hire van as no badging and it was several years old, used by 2 x 60+ year old couples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevec176 Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 No excuse for that, let's us all down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 As dedicated non site users we often found empty Aires or quiet out of the way places to stop all over mainland Europe over many years. Time and again the herd instinct seems to take over as other vanners see one van parked and, thinking of strength in numbers perhaps, join it. We gave up touring the UK 20 years ago as it was obvious that we were not wanted unless we retreated to the corral (aka campsite) every night. We appreciated the problems local authorities faced having seen the abuse and lack of respect for anyone or anything from selfish users outstaying and polluting the location - Dawlish being just one example of several of the era. Given the sheer volume of vans in the UK and the inconsiderate and selfish attitude of so many users I can't see the situation changing and I can quite understand why nobody wants motorhomes parked anywhere. On that basis I have to assume that Aire type motorhome overnighting, or even public car park parking will never gain momentum in the UK. I applaud and appreciate the huge efforts of individuals like David Lloyd and of organisations like CAMpRA and I wish you all well but if ever we do get another van it will be going over via Dover for us as our perception remains that the UK just ain't worth the hassle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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